shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on May 18, 2018 11:04:23 GMT
In a world that contains actual, genuine Nazi's, Donald Trump, the policies of so many Conservative parties, North Korea's dictator, the impending collapse of our entire eco-system and the Kardashions (sp?), the idea of people getting upset about watching a program with over fifty year's history across every media form known to man being pigeonholed as a "kid's show" is of surprisingly little importance to me. And - to me, at least - says a lot about the alleged fans.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on May 18, 2018 11:21:39 GMT
In a world that contains actual, genuine Nazi's, Donald Trump, the policies of so many Conservative parties, North Korea's dictator, the impending collapse of our entire eco-system and the Kardashions (sp?), the idea of people getting upset about watching a program with over fifty year's history across every media form known to man being pigeonholed as a "kid's show" is of surprisingly little importance to me. And - to me, at least - says a lot about the alleged fans. Very true, but then you could say that about pretty much all the fictional and fiction-related stuff people get upset about on this forum. All of us are guilty of getting upset over unimportant things on occasion.
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Post by number13 on May 18, 2018 11:46:45 GMT
In a world that contains actual, genuine Nazi's, Donald Trump, the policies of so many Conservative parties, North Korea's dictator, the impending collapse of our entire eco-system and the Kardashions (sp?), the idea of people getting upset about watching a program with over fifty year's history across every media form known to man being pigeonholed as a "kid's show" is of surprisingly little importance to me. And - to me, at least - says a lot about the alleged fans. Very true, but then you could say that about pretty much all the fictional and fiction-related stuff people get upset about on this forum. All of us are guilty of getting upset over unimportant things on occasion. I think that's conservative parties with a small 'c'
I don't think there has been very much 'conservative' about the (British) Conservatives since the Thatcher governments tore up the post-war consensus 40 years ago! (Whether or not people thought it was A Good Thing, radical economic liberalism would describe those years better.) And 'conserving' hardly seems the order of the day at the moment either, with Brexit going - somewhere or other, destination unknown! And thank goodness, U.S.-style social conservatism is only a fringe view in U.K. politics these days.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 11:55:43 GMT
In a world that contains actual, genuine Nazi's, Donald Trump, the policies of so many Conservative parties, North Korea's dictator, the impending collapse of our entire eco-system and the Kardashions (sp?), the idea of people getting upset about watching a program with over fifty year's history across every media form known to man being pigeonholed as a "kid's show" is of surprisingly little importance to me. And - to me, at least - says a lot about the alleged fans.
Eh, if we can't talk about the little things, we'd all go mad. Especially now.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 12:03:11 GMT
I think the sharp and uncomfortable relisation I've hit is some people just don't care. Not ignoring actual Nazis integrating themselves into various fandoms now, but....some people will watch Doctor Who or other media of it's ilk and they still just don't care. Some are honest about it, others are not.
Not all people, but some people are just comfortable. I believe in empathy, gentleness and compassion, I really do. I believe people are good.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,817
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Post by lidar2 on May 18, 2018 12:56:09 GMT
I don't think there has been very much 'conservative' about the (British) Conservatives since the Thatcher governments tore up the post-war consensus 40 years ago! (Whether or not people thought it was A Good Thing, radical economic liberalism would describe those years better.) And 'conserving' hardly seems the order of the day at the moment either, with Brexit going - somewhere or other, destination unknown! And thank goodness, U.S.-style social conservatism is only a fringe view in U.K. politics these days. Herbert Morrison once said socialism is whatever the Labour Party does. I think there is truth in the opposite sentiment too - conservatism is whatever the Conservative Party does.
But that's enough derailing of the thread from me.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,677
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Post by shutupbanks on May 18, 2018 13:19:52 GMT
In a world that contains actual, genuine Nazi's, Donald Trump, the policies of so many Conservative parties, North Korea's dictator, the impending collapse of our entire eco-system and the Kardashions (sp?), the idea of people getting upset about watching a program with over fifty year's history across every media form known to man being pigeonholed as a "kid's show" is of surprisingly little importance to me. And - to me, at least - says a lot about the alleged fans.
Eh, if we can't talk about the little things, we'd all go mad. Especially now.
There's a member of these pages who I agree with almost 100% with on the big things (according to his Twitter page) but who has a "take no prisoners" attitude on matters relating to obscure points of fandom that matter almost nothing to everybody outside this website and it sometimes - usually around 3 a.m. on work nights - makes me question my judgement on really important things. It does boggle my mind at times
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Post by number13 on May 18, 2018 14:51:07 GMT
I don't think there has been very much 'conservative' about the (British) Conservatives since the Thatcher governments tore up the post-war consensus 40 years ago! (Whether or not people thought it was A Good Thing, radical economic liberalism would describe those years better.) And 'conserving' hardly seems the order of the day at the moment either, with Brexit going - somewhere or other, destination unknown! And thank goodness, U.S.-style social conservatism is only a fringe view in U.K. politics these days. Herbert Morrison once said socialism is whatever the Labour Party does. I think there is truth in the opposite sentiment too - conservatism is whatever the Conservative Party does.
But that's enough derailing of the thread from me.
I have a very active Labour friend who I think would be appalled by that idea! Conferences have been fought over less lol! I guess that argument about what defines the true 'we' does go on within every party - or fandom, come to that.
(And by the same logic I guess the thread is about whatever we make it so that's OK... )
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 18:20:55 GMT
But it IS a kids show
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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 18, 2018 18:33:06 GMT
Well a family show, to be accurate, or as a industry person would say, four-quadrant (mass appeal, covers multiple demographics. Think Marvel or Pixar).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 18:38:34 GMT
Well a family show, to be accurate, or as a industry person would say, four-quadrant (mass appeal, covers multiple demographics. Think Marvel or Pixar). No. People call it a family show if they are ashamed to be seen as watching a kids show.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 19:03:45 GMT
Reading this is making my head hurt! If a lot of the guff that passes for mature viewing on early to peak time Telly these days passes for anything, Kids must be a more discerning bunch.
I mentioned myself on a different thread earlier in the week about how i used to look for justifications that the show could be deemed as being 'not a children's programme, oh no definitely not' as if the opinions of people who do not like it matter that much. This was in my early 20's and teenage fandom. For the record I believe it is a family show and that's what the BBC have always said, although DWM did note in its review of season 24 (McCoy's first) that it seemed 'more kidvid than ever before' (their words). Edit: actually that was Starburst (1987) - before anyone checks their back issues...
A little perspective: Back in the 70's my Dad, as a Police Officer, used to get permission if on day shift to finish on time to catch The Magic Roundabout. In the 90's when Looney Tunes came out on video, these were must buys for him. Escapism and keeping hold of youthful innocence in a stressful job is the key, and my parents were the reason Dr Who was always viewing choice as a toddler - i was too scared to watch it but they liked it. Just as the Lively Arts Melvyn Bragg documentary covered a Medical Team who always watched it, it held equal appeal to grown ups as relief from a hard and cynical world.
Now, as a middle aged fan who has long grown out of 'growing out of it', when someone queries why i like such children's programmes, my response is 'yeahh, so?'
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 19:39:27 GMT
Well a family show, to be accurate, or as a industry person would say, four-quadrant (mass appeal, covers multiple demographics. Think Marvel or Pixar). No. People call it a family show if they are ashamed to be seen as watching a kids show. No. The show was created explicitly as a family show and has never received funding from the Children's department that funded actual children's shows like Grange Hill, Blue Peter, Byker Grove and many others over the decades. People call it a family show because that was exactly what it was created as and intended to be from 1963 onwards, not because of shame.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on May 18, 2018 19:55:53 GMT
No. People call it a family show if they are ashamed to be seen as watching a kids show. No. The show was created explicitly as a family show and has never received funding from the Children's department that funded actual children's shows like Grange Hill, Blue Peter, Byker Grove and many others over the decades. People call it a family show because that was exactly what it was created as and intended to be from 1963 onwards, not because of shame. What he said.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2018 20:01:01 GMT
No. The show was created explicitly as a family show and has never received funding from the Children's department that funded actual children's shows like Grange Hill, Blue Peter, Byker Grove and many others over the decades. People call it a family show because that was exactly what it was created as and intended to be from 1963 onwards, not because of shame. What he said. Indeed - those are the plain facts. The perception of non-viewers seems to provoke defensiveness without warrant when the sheer age range of actual-viewers has always sealed any argument.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 2:36:32 GMT
Not all people, but some people are just comfortable. I believe in empathy, gentleness and compassion, I really do. I believe people are good.
And humanity has a very strong capacity for good. Good is everywhere. It's all happening, all the time. The thing is... *taps nose* good is often very, very quiet. It's that kindness of putting that fistful of change into a charity box, taking in a pregnant stray so she'll have somewhere safe to bear her children or keeping a man conscious in the middle of a crowded street while the ambulance arrives (all true, all things that have happened to people I know). Ordinary and extraordinary people don't typically celebrate these accomplishments, nor are they aren't thrown in your face for shock value, you have to seek them out. Even among celebrity. Audrey Hepburn and Roger Moore -- Holly Golightly and Simon Templar -- became UNICEF Goodwill Ambassadors promoting projects that would bring drinking water and food for those without. Colin Baker was (and I think still currently is) the Chairman for the Foundation for the Study of Infant Deaths, promoting research into preventable measures in that field. Dominic Smith who does online adaptation reviews donated everything he'd earnt on his Fifty Shades entries to charities that helped others with abuse. And then, there's everything that is Desert Bus for Hope. It really is everywhere.
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Post by number13 on May 19, 2018 8:44:49 GMT
Not all people, but some people are just comfortable. I believe in empathy, gentleness and compassion, I really do. I believe people are good.
And humanity has a very strong capacity for good. Good is everywhere. It's all happening, all the time. The thing is... *taps nose* good is often very, very quiet. It's that kindness of putting that fistful of change into a charity box, taking in a pregnant stray so she'll have somewhere safe to bear her children or keeping a man conscious in the middle of a crowded street while the ambulance arrives (all true, all things that have happened to people I know). Ordinary and extraordinary people don't typically celebrate these accomplishments, nor are they aren't thrown in your face for shock value, you have to seek them out. Even among celebrity. Audrey Hepburn and Roger Moore -- Holly Golightly and Simon Templar -- became UNICEF Goodwill Ambassadors promoting projects that would bring drinking water and food for those without. Colin Baker was (and I think still currently is) the Chairman for the Foundation for the Study of Infant Deaths, promoting research into preventable measures in that field. Dominic Smith who does online adaptation reviews donated everything he'd earnt on his Fifty Shades entries to charities that helped others with abuse. And then, there's everything that is Desert Bus for Hope. It really is everywhere. And on this day especially, I'd add - the royal family. They don't have to do as much charitable work as they do, but they do and they obviously, individually care about people and projects. Some of this gets widespread TV coverage so we hear about it, most of it we never do, especially if the royal is older or less fashionable. But the good work happens all the same, day in, day out and it changes lives.
Small 'r' republicans will point out that the benificent State should do that good work anyway, but there is always need for charity and charity doesn't work so well when fronted by civil servants and politicians. We do like our celebrities, royal or otherwise!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 8:48:03 GMT
And humanity has a very strong capacity for good. Good is everywhere. It's all happening, all the time. The thing is... *taps nose* good is often very, very quiet. It's that kindness of putting that fistful of change into a charity box, taking in a pregnant stray so she'll have somewhere safe to bear her children or keeping a man conscious in the middle of a crowded street while the ambulance arrives (all true, all things that have happened to people I know). Ordinary and extraordinary people don't typically celebrate these accomplishments, nor are they aren't thrown in your face for shock value, you have to seek them out. Even among celebrity. Audrey Hepburn and Roger Moore -- Holly Golightly and Simon Templar -- became UNICEF Goodwill Ambassadors promoting projects that would bring drinking water and food for those without. Colin Baker was (and I think still currently is) the Chairman for the Foundation for the Study of Infant Deaths, promoting research into preventable measures in that field. Dominic Smith who does online adaptation reviews donated everything he'd earnt on his Fifty Shades entries to charities that helped others with abuse. And then, there's everything that is Desert Bus for Hope. It really is everywhere. And on this day especially, I'd add - the royal family. They don't have to do as much charitable work as they do, but they do and they obviously, individually care about people and projects. Some of this gets widespread TV coverage so we hear about it, most of it we never do, especially if the royal is older or less fashionable. But the good work happens all the same, day in, day out and it changes lives.
Small 'r' republicans will point out that the benificent State should do that good work anyway, but there is always need for charity and charity doesn't work so well when fronted by civil servants and politicians. We do like our celebrities, royal or otherwise!
Oh no please can we keep those parasitic millionaires out of this topic! Or just create another thread if you want to talk about them lot!
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Post by Jeedai on May 19, 2018 9:48:23 GMT
I dont care if something is a kid show or family show if it's a *good* show. I watch DuckTales and Steven Universe and Gumball and Adventure Time along with all the 'grown up' stuff I'm into. Movies and programs marketed to kids can be smarter, funnier, deeper and more interesting than a lot of the fare aimed at adults.
I'm looking at you, Michael Bay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2018 10:32:26 GMT
I dont care if something is a kid show or family show if it's a *good* show. I watch DuckTales and Steven Universe and Gumball and Adventure Time along with all the 'grown up' stuff I'm into. Movies and programs marketed to kids can be smarter, funnier, deeper and more interesting than a lot of the fare aimed at adults. I'm looking at you, Michael Bay. This. Steven Universe, in particular, is worth noting for its realistic depictions of psychological therapy. Seriously. It shows textbook symptoms and treatments for complex issues like anxiety, depression, OCD, grief (grief is a really big one in that show) and many others through its characters. Likewise, The Amazing World of Gumball recently did an episode about what to do when you've lost all hope and I'd call it one of the most important pieces of television out there (it's called "The Faith" if anyone wants to check it out). It's really great to see all these kids/family programmes out there that acknowledge the problems that come with maturity (systemic injustice, personal despair, existential nihilism, et al.) and showing them how to cope with it. Genuinely valuable life skills. Nowadays, children are growing up with the kinds of shows that show them how to overcome their problems when things get rough. All while still telling really damn good stories about a talking cat and his walking fish, emotions inside a girl's head or a family of treasure hunting ducks. I think that's an amazing progression. Doctor Who, whether a family or kids show, is often very good at that as well (hence the Third Doctor signature at the end of all my posts). I believe in a universe that doesn't care and people that do; a view plucked right out from old Sixie himself. I would not be doing what I'm doing now if not for our Doctors.
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