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Post by omega on Aug 29, 2017 6:46:59 GMT
DOCTOR WHO - MAIN RANGE » 71. THE COUNCIL OF NICAEA Large coverReleased July 2005SynopsisThe year is 325AD. In the city of Nicaea, the first great Church council, called by the Roman Emperor Constantine, is due to begin. Here theology, philosophy and politics will be brought together for millennia to come. The Doctor, Peri and Erimem are there simply to watch events unfold. Gaps remain in the history books, and the Doctor has come to satisfy his curiosity. But none of them are ready for what greets them in Nicaea. Intrigue within the Imperial Palace has become violence on the streets. Mobs roam the alleyways and blood is spilt in the name of faith. Even in the face of murder and injustice though, the time travellers must force themselves to stay aloof. This is history, after all. Yet what is history to one person is the future to another. Is it possible for history to be rewritten? And if it can, can the Doctor afford to let it? Written By: Caroline Symcox Directed By: Gary Russell CASTPeter Davison (The Doctor ); Nicola Bryant (Peri); Caroline Morris (Erimem); David Bamber (Emperor Constantine); Claire Carroll (Fausta); Steve Kynman (Arius); Martin Parsons (Athanasius); Michael Garland (Clement); Sean Carlsen (Centurion Gaius); Stephan Bessant (Julius), Jason Stevens (Clothing Stallholder) {Technical Details (click to open/close)}Written By: Caroline Symcox Director: Gary Russell Sound Design: ERS Music: ERS Cover Art: Stuart Manning Number of Discs: 2 Duration: Disc 1 (59' 05"); Disc 2 (48' 44") Physical Retail ISBN: 1-84435-134-3 Production Code: 6Q/H Recorded Dates: 18 and 19 April 2005 Recorded At: The Moat Studios Product Format: 2-disc CD (jewel case) {Behind the Scenes (click to open/close)}Chronological Placement This story takes place between the television adventures, Planet of Fire and The Caves of Androzani and after the Big Finish audio adventure Three's a Crowd.
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Post by omega on Aug 29, 2017 7:28:46 GMT
Now that's technical difficulties out of the way, my thoughts on the story.
It's a powerful story. It's Erimem's best story, where she shows the best and worst of herself. She's honorable and completely willing to throw herself into a cause she feels just, but doesn't recognise when to see both sides of the issue. It's her learning to do this that allows Erimem to develop as a character, and one of the skills in becoming a better leader.
It's a story that could only be told with this TARDIS team. The Doctor's big picture web of time responsibilities clash with Erimem's quest for justice. Peri is just trying to smooth everything over, yet her best efforts make things worse.
There's no obvious bad guy in this, and both sides of the argument are understandable. Constantine just wants to bring the theological conflict to an end, while both Arius and Athanasius are defending the views that they rule their lives by.
The only negative I can think of is that Athanasius's plot to sabotage Arius doesn't reach any resolution in the story. It's mentioned at the start when he and Julius talk about stirring up the mob to vilify Arius's name, and Athanasius starts the Council by raising the motion to exile Arius. None of the other characters realise the plot is happening at all. It does get a resolution at the end when the Doctor gives Peri and Erimem cliffnotes of what happens next.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 8:02:12 GMT
One of Big Finish's absolute best. A strong testament to the power and value of pure historical tales.
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Post by omega on Aug 29, 2017 8:17:51 GMT
One of Big Finish's absolute best. A strong testament to the power and value of pure historical tales. The greatest strength is how the story gives the listener an emotional stake through Erimem's crusade, and how that crusade causes her to clash with the Doctor (who's veiwpoint we normally share). It's like the Aztecs in how one of the companions tries to change things regardless of how history was meant to play out. And ultimately a minor victory is scored (Constantine promises Arius a fair hearing) while the course of history remains intact.
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Post by Timelord007 on Aug 29, 2017 9:05:45 GMT
Brilliant story, well written characters & allows the listener to hear both sides of the argument from the Doctor & Erimem & make the listener draw upon there own conclusions on who has the moral high ground.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 9:14:22 GMT
One of Big Finish's absolute best. A strong testament to the power and value of pure historical tales. The greatest strength is how the story gives the listener an emotional stake through Erimem's crusade, and how that crusade causes her to clash with the Doctor (who's veiwpoint we normally share). It's like the Aztecs in how one of the companions tries to change things regardless of how history was meant to play out. And ultimately a minor victory is scored (Constantine promises Arius a fair hearing) while the course of history remains intact. With all that will result from it. Actually... When you think about it, it's a rather interesting mixture of two classic Hartnell stories: The Aztecs (Erimem attempting to rewrite events) and The Crusade (Constantine/Richard and Arius/Saladin). I wonder how historicals fell into such bad repute? Was it things like The Myth Makers that people remembered over Marco Polo?
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Post by omega on Aug 29, 2017 9:21:35 GMT
The greatest strength is how the story gives the listener an emotional stake through Erimem's crusade, and how that crusade causes her to clash with the Doctor (who's veiwpoint we normally share). It's like the Aztecs in how one of the companions tries to change things regardless of how history was meant to play out. And ultimately a minor victory is scored (Constantine promises Arius a fair hearing) while the course of history remains intact. With all that will result from it. Actually... When you think about it, it's a rather interesting mixture of two classic Hartnell stories: The Aztecs (Erimem attempting to rewrite events) and The Crusade (Constantine/Richard and Arius/Saladin). I wonder how historicals fell into such bad repute? Was it things like The Myth Makers that people remembered over Marco Polo? I'm thinking it's because they were seen as boring without the actual episodes, and all but one, Black Orchid, were in the 60's they were wiped. Quite a few haven't been recovered, like Marco Polo, half of The Crusade, The Mythmakers and The Massacre (of Saint Bartholomew's Eve). It's easier to list the stories and episodes that have been recovered, like Reign of Terror, half of The Crusade (I've met the man who found The Lion), The Romans and The Gunfighters (that earned a reputation all on its own).
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Post by mark687 on Aug 29, 2017 12:30:43 GMT
Its the 1st one where Erimem could've gone (this and Son of the Dragon are her best stories IMO).
The story itself is solid human drama. The interference debate is handled sensitively and intelligently, maybe its drawback is that its not her final story and that she didn't stay behind to try and continue Arius's work.
Regards
mark687
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Post by elkawho on Aug 29, 2017 13:50:55 GMT
This and Son of The Dragon are my favorites from this Tardis team, Dragon beating it out by just a hair. Agreed with everything already said here. It's a wonderfully compelling story.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2017 14:09:15 GMT
Thanks for reminding me of this excellent story. As others have said, it might well be my favourite from the TARDIS team of The Doctor, Peri and Erimem. David Bamber is an excellent guest actor, and the whole thing really sets up a fine moral dilemma for our favourites. A shame we have not heard more from Caroline Symcox.
A word for Peri and Erimem - I loved them and their relationship with Old Fivey. There was the 'community' spirit prevalent for this era, but instead of bickering, there was a real sense of the girls ganging up on the Doctor, in only the most affectionate way. They like him, they want to travel with him and they enjoy each other's company. I wish we could have heard more from them. Apart from anything else, I feel the welcome addition of Erimem gave a new dynamic for Peri in a way that I had hoped getting Mel and Ace back together in 2017 might have done for their characters. This story uses that relationship well, and in some ways tests it to the limits.
A terrific story and well worth another listen.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2017 4:47:46 GMT
Thanks for reminding me of this excellent story. As others have said, it might well be my favourite from the TARDIS team of The Doctor, Peri and Erimem. David Bamber is an excellent guest actor, and the whole thing really sets up a fine moral dilemma for our favourites. A shame we have not heard more from Caroline Symcox. Ooh, that reminds me... It's about time I went back and relistened to Seasons of Fear.
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Post by mrperson on Aug 31, 2017 15:59:56 GMT
Another one of my favorites. A truly rich historical taking place in a period I was long interested in, with plenty of character exploration for Erimem (who herself is one of the most interesting companions we've been given).
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Post by omega on Dec 9, 2017 23:32:09 GMT
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Post by mrperson on Dec 9, 2017 23:42:16 GMT
<omissions>The only negative I can think of is that Athanasius's plot to sabotage Arius doesn't reach any resolution in the story. It's mentioned at the start when he and Julius talk about stirring up the mob to vilify Arius's name, and Athanasius starts the Council by raising the motion to exile Arius. None of the other characters realise the plot is happening at all. It does get a resolution at the end when the Doctor gives Peri and Erimem cliffnotes of what happens next. It's been several years since I did my extensive pass through Roman history, but I think that's pretty accurate though. Once they got (and/or were getting) Arius out of the way, it became less important to destroy him. Constantine only wanted stability. With his failure to interfere in the council recorded, the Christan sect backing Athanasius's interpretation of the trinity was secure. I don't specifically remember a plot to stir up a mob to vilify Arias, but even if it was artistic license, I think it's fair artistic license that it was dropped part-way through the episode. Anyway, agree with many comments here. Really loved this one.
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Post by omega on Dec 9, 2017 23:47:55 GMT
<omissions>The only negative I can think of is that Athanasius's plot to sabotage Arius doesn't reach any resolution in the story. It's mentioned at the start when he and Julius talk about stirring up the mob to vilify Arius's name, and Athanasius starts the Council by raising the motion to exile Arius. None of the other characters realise the plot is happening at all. It does get a resolution at the end when the Doctor gives Peri and Erimem cliffnotes of what happens next. It's been several years since I did my extensive pass through Roman history, but I think that's pretty accurate though. Once they got (and/or were getting) Arius out of the way, it became less important to destroy him. Constantine only wanted stability. With his failure to interfere in the council recorded, the Christan sect backing Athanasius's interpretation of the trinity was secure. I don't specifically remember a plot to stir up a mob to vilify Arias, but even if it was artistic license, I think it's fair artistic license that it was dropped part-way through the episode.That's the mob at the start that separates the Doctor from Peri and Erimem, after which the latter two first meet Arius. About halfway through the story Julius attempts to inveigle himself into the Arians through Erimem (leading to the midpoint cliffhanger) on the orders of Athanasius.
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Post by mrperson on Dec 10, 2017 0:14:31 GMT
It's been several years since I did my extensive pass through Roman history, but I think that's pretty accurate though. Once they got (and/or were getting) Arius out of the way, it became less important to destroy him. Constantine only wanted stability. With his failure to interfere in the council recorded, the Christan sect backing Athanasius's interpretation of the trinity was secure. I don't specifically remember a plot to stir up a mob to vilify Arias, but even if it was artistic license, I think it's fair artistic license that it was dropped part-way through the episode.That's the mob at the start that separates the Doctor from Peri and Erimem, after which the latter two first meet Arius. About halfway through the story Julius attempts to inveigle himself into the Arians through Erimem (leading to the midpoint cliffhanger) on the orders of Athanasius. Whoops, I wasn't clear. I meant, historically speaking in real history.
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Post by omega on Dec 10, 2017 0:32:24 GMT
That's the mob at the start that separates the Doctor from Peri and Erimem, after which the latter two first meet Arius. About halfway through the story Julius attempts to inveigle himself into the Arians through Erimem (leading to the midpoint cliffhanger) on the orders of Athanasius. Whoops, I wasn't clear. I meant, historically speaking in real history. It's Doctor Who, so unless the Doctor and companions only intervene in fringe events unrelated to the key players some artistic license will need to be taken. Even then it happens, usually to serve the narrative being told. Blind spots in history help to avert this, as it gives the writers more free rein to write as they want to, provided things remain on track to be consistent with what is known. I mean really, a Doctor Who story that doesn't split the Doctor and his companions up at some point? Inconceivable!
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Post by mrperson on Dec 10, 2017 4:21:34 GMT
Whoops, I wasn't clear. I meant, historically speaking in real history. It's Doctor Who, so unless the Doctor and companions only intervene in fringe events unrelated to the key players some artistic license will need to be taken. Even then it happens, usually to serve the narrative being told. Blind spots in history help to avert this, as it gives the writers more free rein to write as they want to, provided things remain on track to be consistent with what is known. I mean really, a Doctor Who story that doesn't split the Doctor and his companions up at some point? Inconceivable! Yeah. I wasn't complaining about it, rather noting how generally accurate it was.
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Post by fingersmash on Dec 10, 2017 14:25:30 GMT
My personal favorite of the Erimem run and one that takes place in a time that the Doctor really should visit more often. The fall of the Roman Empire and rise of the Byzantine Empire with the Codes of Justinian and the major power struggle that went around that entire time period. So much story potential there. Also, bring back Caroline Symcox. Easily one of the best writers BF's ever employed.
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Post by Ela on Dec 20, 2017 19:23:58 GMT
This was a great story, especially interesting in how Erimem behaves and her understanding of history and what can and can't be changed.
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