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Post by dannybl on Sept 2, 2017 21:59:52 GMT
I was wondering should Big Finish or someone try out alternative versions of TV stories? Not 100% Unbound territory, but rather little 'what if's or giving them to other Doctors i.e. how would The Third Doctor have handled The Talons of Weng-Chiang? Or 'improved' versions of some less favorued stories i.e. Timelash (Colin may particularly enjoy that)? Stories involvign dfifferent characters, different points of views. Maybe the build up to the Time War stretching back to Genesis?
The novelisations did such changes now and again, sometime steering away from what was on TV
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2017 23:12:49 GMT
Not something I would be interested in.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2017 23:55:07 GMT
I was wondering should Big Finish or someone try out alternative versions of TV stories? Not 100% Unbound territory, but rather little 'what if's or giving them to other Doctors i.e. how would The Third Doctor have handled The Talons of Weng-Chiang? Or 'improved' versions of some less favorued stories i.e. Timelash (Colin may particularly enjoy that)? Stories involvign dfifferent characters, different points of views. Maybe the build up to the Time War stretching back to Genesis? The novelisations did such changes now and again, sometime steering away from what was on TV I do like the idea of The Doctor's history changing out of an event (e.g. a Seven goes to visit adult Adric, for instance) . But, I think you need to do something more drastic, otherwise, for a lot of people, your just telling the same story (e.g. the Unbounds). I think also for a lot of fans, the notorious entries in Doctor Who's canon are what they are, sadly.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 1:02:41 GMT
In the vein of improved versions, I've done my very best with The Twin Dilemma (as a fifty-minute special), Timelash (as a pair of twenty-five minute episodes) and other releases, if you're looking for recut versions of preexisting troubled stories.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 6:41:47 GMT
I wouldn't mind hearing a Timelash prequel featuring the Third Doctor & Jo as it's hinted they been there before.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2017 7:11:38 GMT
I wouldn't mind hearing a Timelash prequel featuring the Third Doctor & Jo as it's hinted they been there before. Speed of Flight states that Jo and Yates were on their way to Karfel, so if Big Finish wanted to there is a precedent... I'd like to see someone like Lance Parkin take a swing at it, Davros was excellent at giving an additional layer of meaning to what happened in Revelation of the Daleks just purely through what the characters discussed.
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Post by number13 on Sept 3, 2017 20:22:35 GMT
I wouldn't mind hearing a Timelash prequel featuring the Third Doctor & Jo as it's hinted they been there before. Yes, I'd like this too. Their visit definitely happened, because Jo referred to the scent of flowers on Karfel in SJA 'The Death of the Doctor' and of course there's that full-size portrait of the Third Doctor boarded ( boraded?) up on the wall of the council chamber. Karfel seems to be a world where the 'ancient Rome' political structure might lead naturally to scheming and plots, maybe with some involvement from the Bandrils, classic Third Doctor 'Peladon'-style material. And perhaps the Morlox might look better on audio?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 10:44:33 GMT
I wouldn't mind hearing a Timelash prequel featuring the Third Doctor & Jo as it's hinted they been there before. Yes, I'd like this too. Their visit definitely happened, because Jo referred to the scent of flowers on Karfel in SJA 'The Death of the Doctor' and of course there's that full-size portrait of the Third Doctor boarded ( boraded?) up on the wall of the council chamber. Karfel seems to be a world where the 'ancient Rome' political structure might lead naturally to scheming and plots, maybe with some involvement from the Bandrils, classic Third Doctor 'Peladon'-style material. And perhaps the Morlox might look better on audio? Got a theory about the Morlox, I think the heads all stem from a single enormous creature dwelling in the deeps like a hydra. There are a handful of them throughout Karfel that act as carrion eaters for the vast Hollow Earth ecology they've got going on down there. The reason why they're so deadly is that their jaws are strong enough to chew through solid rock. Fortunately, their subterranean existence leaves them vulnerable to light.
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Post by number13 on Sept 4, 2017 11:55:09 GMT
Yes, I'd like this too. Their visit definitely happened, because Jo referred to the scent of flowers on Karfel in SJA 'The Death of the Doctor' and of course there's that full-size portrait of the Third Doctor boarded ( boraded?) up on the wall of the council chamber. Karfel seems to be a world where the 'ancient Rome' political structure might lead naturally to scheming and plots, maybe with some involvement from the Bandrils, classic Third Doctor 'Peladon'-style material. And perhaps the Morlox might look better on audio? Got a theory about the Morlox, I think the heads all stem from a single enormous creature dwelling in the deeps like a hydra. There are a handful of them throughout Karfel that act as carrion eaters for the vast Hollow Earth ecology they've got going on down there. The reason why they're so deadly is that their jaws are strong enough to chew through solid rock. Fortunately, their subterranean existence leaves them vulnerable to light. I like that idea a lot; it's very different and accounts for why they so obviously can't actually chase anyone... Nicola Bryant deserved at least a small scenery alcove to do her valiantly professional ‘trapped and screaming’ acting in; the end result would have looked far less silly if Peri was clearly trapped instead of ‘trapped’ against a flat cave wall with miles of floor space to escape into! Better still, she could have had some quick move (a handful of rock dust/crystals scraped from the wall and thrown?) to temporarily distract the Morlox and make her escape.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2017 23:09:48 GMT
Got a theory about the Morlox, I think the heads all stem from a single enormous creature dwelling in the deeps like a hydra. There are a handful of them throughout Karfel that act as carrion eaters for the vast Hollow Earth ecology they've got going on down there. The reason why they're so deadly is that their jaws are strong enough to chew through solid rock. Fortunately, their subterranean existence leaves them vulnerable to light. I like that idea a lot; it's very different and accounts for why they so obviously can't actually chase anyone... Nicola Bryant deserved at least a small scenery alcove to do her valiantly professional ‘trapped and screaming’ acting in; the end result would have looked far less silly if Peri was clearly trapped instead of ‘trapped’ against a flat cave wall with miles of floor space to escape into! Better still, she could have had some quick move (a handful of rock dust/crystals scraped from the wall and thrown?) to temporarily distract the Morlox and make her escape. With a monster that seems pinned by its neck! That sounds much more like Peri, I wish they'd done that instead of the helpless damsel routine. I had similar ideas for Tekker and the rebels too. Tekker is allowed to strut about the way he does because he's the last of a royal bloodline who were deposed in favour of a democratic council. They can't work against him because of the significance they still have to Karfel in some sectors. Like the Hapsburg or the Medici. I like to think that Jo reminded Katz's grandfather of someone he'd lost to the Bandrils or the deeps, that's why he has the photograph. Oh, there's a thought. What if the Bandrils used to occupy the Citadel and the Karfelons forced them out? Maybe the treaty and peaceful relations between them only existed because of the Third Doctor's interference? He got them all to sit down at the diplomatic table and talk.
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Post by number13 on Sept 4, 2017 23:35:12 GMT
I like that idea a lot; it's very different and accounts for why they so obviously can't actually chase anyone... Nicola Bryant deserved at least a small scenery alcove to do her valiantly professional ‘trapped and screaming’ acting in; the end result would have looked far less silly if Peri was clearly trapped instead of ‘trapped’ against a flat cave wall with miles of floor space to escape into! Better still, she could have had some quick move (a handful of rock dust/crystals scraped from the wall and thrown?) to temporarily distract the Morlox and make her escape. With a monster that seems pinned by its neck! That sounds much more like Peri, I wish they'd done that instead of the helpless damsel routine. I had similar ideas for Tekker and the rebels too. Tekker is allowed to strut about the way he does because he's the last of a royal bloodline who were deposed in favour of a democratic council. They can't work against him because of the significance they still have to Karfel in some sectors. Like the Hapsburg or the Medici. I like to think that Jo reminded Katz's grandfather of someone he'd lost to the Bandrils or the deeps, that's why he has the photograph. Oh, there's a thought. What if the Bandrils used to occupy the Citadel and the Karfelons forced them out? Maybe the treaty and peaceful relations between them only existed because of the Third Doctor's interference? He got them all to sit down at the diplomatic table and talk. Oh yes that sounds very Third Doctor. He was great at walking into the Royal Court of X and either claiming he had local noble's rights or impersonating someone who did. And then using that imperious persona to push equally imperious people into at least accepting each other. Tekker, yes he acted as if 'divine right' to rule was his, so maybe he was the last of the Old Guard and probably thought he should rule the people for their own good. And deep down, a noble who did show some sense of 'noblesse oblige' when he discovered the reality of the Borad. As for Jo and that photo, I'd guess she left yet another dented heart behind her on Karfel to go with Mike, Latep, Peladon... - she couldn't help it if good guys fell in love with her across half the galaxy; who could blame them?!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 8:16:09 GMT
With a monster that seems pinned by its neck! That sounds much more like Peri, I wish they'd done that instead of the helpless damsel routine. I had similar ideas for Tekker and the rebels too. Tekker is allowed to strut about the way he does because he's the last of a royal bloodline who were deposed in favour of a democratic council. They can't work against him because of the significance they still have to Karfel in some sectors. Like the Hapsburg or the Medici. I like to think that Jo reminded Katz's grandfather of someone he'd lost to the Bandrils or the deeps, that's why he has the photograph. Oh, there's a thought. What if the Bandrils used to occupy the Citadel and the Karfelons forced them out? Maybe the treaty and peaceful relations between them only existed because of the Third Doctor's interference? He got them all to sit down at the diplomatic table and talk. Oh yes that sounds very Third Doctor. He was great at walking into the Royal Court of X and either claiming he had local noble's rights or impersonating someone who did. And then using that imperious persona to push equally imperious people into at least accepting each other. Tekker, yes he acted as if 'divine right' to rule was his, so maybe he was the last of the Old Guard and probably thought he should rule the people for their own good. And deep down, a noble who did show some sense of 'noblesse oblige' when he discovered the reality of the Borad. As for Jo and that photo, I'd guess she left yet another dented heart behind her on Karfel to go with Mike, Latep, Peladon... - she couldn't help it if good guys fell in love with her across half the galaxy; who could blame them?! I can just picture it in my head: I do rather like the idea that Tekker was acting how people expected him to act, playing into the outlandish stereotype like the Captain in The Pirate Planet. It was only when the Borad revealed his intentions that he dropped everything and became what he actually was. Ah, well, that's Jo for you.
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Post by number13 on Sept 5, 2017 8:40:09 GMT
I can just picture it in my head: I do rather like the idea that Tekker was acting how people expected him to act, playing into the outlandish stereotype like the Captain in The Pirate Planet. It was only when the Borad revealed his intentions that he dropped everything and became what he actually was. Ah, well, that's Jo for you. I want to read the rest of that story now! I chortled at the First Doctor moment with the local names. (It should be a mighty nose, surely? )
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Post by Deleted on Sept 5, 2017 8:50:51 GMT
I can just picture it in my head: I do rather like the idea that Tekker was acting how people expected him to act, playing into the outlandish stereotype like the Captain in The Pirate Planet. It was only when the Borad revealed his intentions that he dropped everything and became what he actually was. Ah, well, that's Jo for you. I want to read the rest of that story now! I chortled at the First Doctor moment with the local names. (It should be a mighty nose, surely? ) Maybe that's what I should do next, write a prequel to Timelash. There's a thought, that could be rather fun. Ah, you do have a point. Maybe that can be the nickname he garners throughout Karfel as he gains notoriety, like the Scarlet Pimpernel.
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Post by number13 on Oct 2, 2017 14:43:29 GMT
For me the defining characteristics of the Third Doctor (as distinct from those he shares with all incarnations and his enjoyable action-hero side) are his attitude to power and those who hold power, and his attitude towards revolution and reform. This has sometimes led to him being called 'an Establishment figure' and is, I think, (along with the dreaded label 'Tory' ) the reason he and his era have become fashionably less popular among some parts of fandom. This, as we know, is the Doctor with consistently the second highest viewing figures of all time. He was immensely popular and no amount of modern 'political' revisionism can change that fact. And curiously enough, in the 1970s the criticism went the opposite way: 'Doctor Who' (with the same Third Doctor) was clearly pushing 'Socialist' propaganda! As I see it, both viewpoints are separately nonsense - but they do make a certain sense when combined. The Third Doctor is content to work with establishment figures or 'revolutionaries', from UNIT to the absolute monarch of Peladon, from the rebels of Dalek-ruled Earth to the miners of Peladon, but only when any of those people are trying to do good on behalf of all people. So he promotes reform, sometimes quite radical reform, but not revolution unless the existing power structures are oppressive or corrupt. If they are, then he will change anything, even Time itself, to sweep them away. I'd refer to the Peladon tales and 'Day of the Daleks'. The Third Doctor embraces and clearly enjoys the courtly world of Peladon ('You're loving all the "Chairman Delegate" stuff!' says Jo with insight) and is happy to support King Peladon and Queen Thalira because they are trying to reform their world for the better. He does not object to their fairly absolute rule because it is benign and forward-looking. But he opposes the two High Priests who take a rigidly traditional view - while trying to persuade them to change; in his book, they aren't 'bad' men, simply out of date. And he is happy to work with the miners and their rival leaders to achieve peaceful reform - but not revolution. Miner Ettis goes from being a class war agitator to a murderous revolutionary and the Doctor fights him (literally) until his own violence leads to a sticky end. By contrast, the miner’s real leader Gebek has grown into a statesman working with the Queen to save Peladon - and ends as Chancellor and a noble, at the Doctor's suggestion. He doesn't overthrow the benign if absolute monarchy, he reinvigorates it by getting the Queen to bring in talented people whatever their 'class' - and thus sets reform of Peladon peacefully in motion, also securing Peladon within the wider Galactic Federation. In 'Day of the Daleks' the Doctor faces the old, absolute enemy. The Daleks are pure evil and cannot be reasoned with, only fought. But the humans of their future Earth can be helped and saved; so, while he tears into the Controller for misuse of power ('A Quisling, a traitor!') he also gives him the chance to redeem himself, which he eventually does at the cost of his own life. There's no question that in the Doctor's mind, that's an infinitely better fate than living as a Dalek agent. And it's notable that the Doctor never accepts that 'the end justifies the means'. He will not kill Styles even though the rebels assure him that this is the only way to prevent the wars which led to Dalek conquest - in part because he senses that Styles is a good man (though he is sarcastic about his pomposity as usual!) So he rejects 'revolution', digs deeper and finds that 'revolutionary' violence by the rebels caused the wars and that he can prevent this and get Time back on course. And in doing so he gives a boost to the peace conference then taking place, encouraging the present-day Earth system to reform towards peaceful co-existence.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Oct 2, 2017 16:58:25 GMT
It would be interesting to hear how the Tenth Doctor during the Specials part of his timeline would have dealt with Genesis of the Daleks. Would he have gone all Time Lord Victorious and committed mass genocide?
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Post by tiny on Oct 8, 2017 12:19:55 GMT
With a monster that seems pinned by its neck! That sounds much more like Peri, I wish they'd done that instead of the helpless damsel routine. I had similar ideas for Tekker and the rebels too. Tekker is allowed to strut about the way he does because he's the last of a royal bloodline who were deposed in favour of a democratic council. They can't work against him because of the significance they still have to Karfel in some sectors. Like the Hapsburg or the Medici. I like to think that Jo reminded Katz's grandfather of someone he'd lost to the Bandrils or the deeps, that's why he has the photograph. Oh, there's a thought. What if the Bandrils used to occupy the Citadel and the Karfelons forced them out? Maybe the treaty and peaceful relations between them only existed because of the Third Doctor's interference? He got them all to sit down at the diplomatic table and talk. Oh yes that sounds very Third Doctor. He was great at walking into the Royal Court of X and either claiming he had local noble's rights or impersonating someone who did. And then using that imperious persona to push equally imperious people into at least accepting each other. Tekker, yes he acted as if 'divine right' to rule was his, so maybe he was the last of the Old Guard and probably thought he should rule the people for their own good. And deep down, a noble who did show some sense of 'noblesse oblige' when he discovered the reality of the Borad. As for Jo and that photo, I'd guess she left yet another dented heart behind her on Karfel to go with Mike, Latep, Peladon... - she couldn't help it if good guys fell in love with her across half the galaxy; who could blame them?! after seeing her spread with the daleks, What man didn't fall in lust for her?
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Post by tiny on Oct 8, 2017 12:27:28 GMT
I wouldn't mind hearing a Timelash prequel featuring the Third Doctor & Jo as it's hinted they been there before. it's the time to get this story done, bf. Tim is a wonderful 3, and we still have Katy and Richard. Yet we only still get just 1 third doctor adventures during the year, with no cc at all. I think bf just doesn't like him. Where's his new companions? Why hasn't Liz been recast, and the brig? No excuses, you recast Ian, you can recast other living cast members who don't have the time or just don't Cate
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Oct 8, 2017 13:37:33 GMT
I wouldn't mind hearing a Timelash prequel featuring the Third Doctor & Jo as it's hinted they been there before. it's the time to get this story done, bf. Tim is a wonderful 3, and we still have Katy and Richard. Yet we only still get just 1 third doctor adventures during the year, with no cc at all. I think bf just doesn't like him. Where's his new companions? Why hasn't Liz been recast, and the brig? No excuses, you recast Ian, you can recast other living cast members who don't have the time or just don't Cate You don't even need to recast to do this one, since you just need Katy and Tim. Also, having heard UNIT Assembled I want to hear Tim alongside them in a fuller UNIT era story.
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Post by number13 on Oct 8, 2017 14:45:31 GMT
it's the time to get this story done, bf. Tim is a wonderful 3, and we still have Katy and Richard. Yet we only still get just 1 third doctor adventures during the year, with no cc at all. I think bf just doesn't like him. Where's his new companions? Why hasn't Liz been recast, and the brig? No excuses, you recast Ian, you can recast other living cast members who don't have the time or just don't Cate You don't even need to recast to do this one, since you just need Katy and Tim. Also, having heard UNIT Assembled I want to hear Tim alongside them in a fuller UNIT era story.This, please BF. No doubt there are constraints with organising such a story, maybe scheduling, maybe cost, but whatever the issues are, could we please have one proper classic UNIT story with the old team?. The Brigadier would have to be in Geneva, marshalling vital resources for whatever the battle is, but that would be believable for one story (if hard on the Brig., poor chap, stuck with paperwork and diplomats instead of leading his men in action.) And a proper 'monster' monster, that wants to take over the Earth and has to be fought off: new series UNIT can do the moralising and negotiation, give us something like a rematch with the Axons or the Nestenes - and if you want a Third Doctor Cyber-story, there it is. 'The New Invasion'. 'Storm of the Horofax' was a splendid alternative, but come on BF, now the team has been assembled again, let us have one last blaze of glory from the Third Doctor and classic UNIT!
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