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Post by captain jack on Dec 26, 2017 13:51:11 GMT
Hi Tim have you ever tried to do a Timeline for the Time War Stories? Id like to know when the War Master Stories fit with Eight & the War Doctors Time War stories?
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Post by Digi on Dec 26, 2017 14:44:49 GMT
I would think that would depend on whose point of view you're following.
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Post by xlozdob on Dec 26, 2017 23:29:19 GMT
Hi Tim have you ever tried to do a Timeline for the Time War Stories? Id like to know when the War Master Stories fit with Eight & the War Doctors Time War stories? Well, one of the stories in the War Master boxset leads into his Gallifrey Time War appearance, and judging by the synopsis and trailer, the Gallifrey boxset is set at the beginning of the full-fledged conflict, so I'd say those happen roughly concurrently and before the Eighth Doctor ones and, consequently, before the War Doctor ones.
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Post by Digi on Dec 29, 2017 23:37:02 GMT
Hi Tim have you ever tried to do a Timeline for the Time War Stories? Id like to know when the War Master Stories fit with Eight & the War Doctors Time War stories? Well, one of the stories in the War Master boxset leads into his Gallifrey Time War appearance, and judging by the synopsis and trailer, the Gallifrey boxset is set at the beginning of the full-fledged conflict, so I'd say those happen roughly concurrently and before the Eighth Doctor ones and, consequently, before the War Doctor ones. But again it comes down to whose perspective and POV you want to follow. It was heavily implied and long assumed that the ending of Gallifrey series 6 was the opening shot of the Time War. So depending on how you want to write it, either the War starts with the events of Gallifrey VI--concurrent with Eight's timeline--or with Genesis of the Daleks--during Four's lifetime. Or there's the Dalek Time Controller, a being engineered to wage war across the timelines. It makes an appearance during Sixie's lifetime, but it is clearly waging war at the conclusion of the Eighth Doctor Adventures and in Dark Eyes 1, which are (apparently) prior to Gallifrey VI in the concurrent Eight/Gallifrey timeline. Or the question of the Master, who was (rather heavy-handedly) implied to have been resurrected by the Time Lords during the run of Dark Eyes--he was supposed to be fighting the Daleks for them in it. If that's the case, then the War has already begun as of Dark Eyes 2, and it includes DE2+3+4 and all of Doom Coalition, as well as everything that hasn't yet been released. That's just a couple off the top of my head, but there are more. If someone wants follow the chronology of a war that's fought non-consecutively, across the entirety of creation, one really needs to pick the POV they want to follow and then go by that.
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Post by jasonward on Dec 29, 2017 23:56:36 GMT
Even in a world without time travel, specifying the starting event or time of something like a major war is hard, if not impossible.
Today we tend to say that WWI started with the assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand, but I bet no one thought a world war had started the day after his death, and you also have to question, why was that event the first? Surely those who assassinated him had a reason, they didn't see the assassination as the start of something, they possibly saw it as the end of something.
I've also read about the Punic Wars, wars that at the distance we are today, tend to think of as pretty much a single event, or at least a series of linked events, but at the time they were not seen that way, each war was a separate event with its own start, end and reasons for happening.
I've seen it postulated that in 500 years time, WWI and WWII will be seen as one event by history.
The Time War is even more problematic, and apart from creating labels and assigning them to events to attempt to tell a story (and I mean that from an in universe perspective) your never going to be able to say "it started here" and "it ended here" and everything "between is the war".
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Post by Ela on May 10, 2018 16:18:05 GMT
The thought of WWI and WWII being seen as one event in history is a pretty interesting theory. I could see them being lumped together as "the World Wars", but they was a not insignificant time gap between them. A guess a lot of how they will be viewed has to do with what else happens in the meantime.
As an aside, I've always been amused by old scifi that postulates a third world war - which took place in the past by the time I was exposed to that particular scifi.
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Post by Digi on May 11, 2018 0:15:00 GMT
The thought of WWI and WWII being seen as one event in history is a pretty interesting theory. I could see them being lumped together as "the World Wars", but they was a not insignificant time gap between them. A guess a lot of how they will be viewed has to do with what else happens in the meantime. As an aside, I've always been amused by old scifi that postulates a third world war - which took place in the past by the time I was exposed to that particular scifi. Having done my undergrad in history - it's all but impossible to separate the two. Certainly, the causes that led to WW1 didn't cause WW2. But the conclusion and result of WW1 leave little doubt that they led directly to WW2. WW2 simply cannot be understood without the context of the first war.
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Post by Ela on May 11, 2018 2:00:46 GMT
The thought of WWI and WWII being seen as one event in history is a pretty interesting theory. I could see them being lumped together as "the World Wars", but they was a not insignificant time gap between them. A guess a lot of how they will be viewed has to do with what else happens in the meantime. As an aside, I've always been amused by old scifi that postulates a third world war - which took place in the past by the time I was exposed to that particular scifi. Having done my undergrad in history - it's all but impossible to separate the two. Certainly, the causes that led to WW1 didn't cause WW2. But the conclusion and result of WW1 leave little doubt that they led directly to WW2. WW2 simply cannot be understood without the context of the first war. Yes, that does make sense.
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Post by Deleted on May 11, 2018 8:19:52 GMT
Even in a world without time travel, specifying the starting event or time of something like a major war is hard, if not impossible. Today we tend to say that WWI started with the assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand, but I bet no one thought a world war had started the day after his death, and you also have to question, why was that event the first? Surely those who assassinated him had a reason, they didn't see the assassination as the start of something, they possibly saw it as the end of something. I've also read about the Punic Wars, wars that at the distance we are today, tend to think of as pretty much a single event, or at least a series of linked events, but at the time they were not seen that way, each war was a separate event with its own start, end and reasons for happening. I've seen it postulated that in 500 years time, WWI and WWII will be seen as one event by history.The Time War is even more problematic, and apart from creating labels and assigning them to events to attempt to tell a story (and I mean that from an in universe perspective) your never going to be able to say "it started here" and "it ended here" and everything "between is the war". May not even take that long. There's a hypothesis floating around in cultural studies at the moment that the change could theoretically occur within the two generations, following the passing away of those who were firsthand present for the War. A generation, in this case, being an average of thirty years. Likely in an effort to "streamline" history for future learning and popular entertainment. It's kind of happened already. For instance... If we take a period like World War II and lay out the major events in a timeline, it tends to lump together geographically smaller wars that took place within that time period under that umbrella. The Pacific War and the Winter War, in this case. One in the northern tundra with the Finns against the Soviets, the other in the tropics with a number of countries (at least a dozen) against the Japanese. One towards the beginning, one towards the end. Two very different engagements, but still WW2. I've a sneaking suspicion that the Last Great Time War also had a series of smaller conflicts brewing inside of it. Like The House that Jack Built. (Hmm... The War that Time Fought?) The Time War's an additional hassle with both blocs deliberately going around putting timelines in blenders. How do you determine a battle's been fought? They wiped out the other side to the last man. Okay... How about in situations where the time loop brings them all back to life and they continue fighting. Is that a new battle or a continuation of the old one? The Time War strikes me as a conflict where the battles themselves could have lasted longer than the whole war ultimately did.
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Post by Digi on May 12, 2018 0:26:45 GMT
Even in a world without time travel, specifying the starting event or time of something like a major war is hard, if not impossible. Today we tend to say that WWI started with the assassination of Arch Duke Ferdinand, but I bet no one thought a world war had started the day after his death, and you also have to question, why was that event the first? Surely those who assassinated him had a reason, they didn't see the assassination as the start of something, they possibly saw it as the end of something. I've also read about the Punic Wars, wars that at the distance we are today, tend to think of as pretty much a single event, or at least a series of linked events, but at the time they were not seen that way, each war was a separate event with its own start, end and reasons for happening. I've seen it postulated that in 500 years time, WWI and WWII will be seen as one event by history. The Time War is even more problematic, and apart from creating labels and assigning them to events to attempt to tell a story (and I mean that from an in universe perspective) your never going to be able to say "it started here" and "it ended here" and everything "between is the war". May not even take that long. There's a hypothesis floating around in cultural studies at the moment that the change could theoretically occur within the two generations, following the passing away of those who were firsthand present for the War. A generation, in this case, being an average of thirty years. Likely in an effort to "streamline" history for future learning and popular entertainment. It's kind of happened already. For instance... If we take a period like World War II and lay out the major events in a timeline, it tends to lump together geographically smaller wars that took place within that time period under that umbrella. The Pacific War and the Winter War, in this case. One in the northern tundra with the Finns against the Soviets, the other in the tropics with a number of countries (at least a dozen) against the Japanese. One towards the beginning, one towards the end. Two very different engagements, but still WW2. I've a sneaking suspicion that the Last Great Time War also had a series of smaller conflicts brewing inside of it. Like The House that Jack Built. (Hmm... The War that Time Fought?) The Time War's an additional hassle with both blocs deliberately going around putting timelines in blenders. How do you determine a battle's been fought? They wiped out the other side to the last man. Okay... How about in situations where the time loop brings them all back to life and they continue fighting. Is that a new battle or a continuation of the old one? The Time War strikes me as a conflict where the battles themselves could have lasted longer than the whole war ultimately did.That's almost the definition of the entire conflict, really. Subjectively, from the point of view of the principals, the war lasts for what, centuries? (Four, according to Engines of War). But viewed objectively, the war spans the trillions of years of all of reality. And then there are things like the world in The Sontaran Ordeal: a world that was the site of only the briefest of Time War conflicts from the POV of the Time Lords and the Daleks, but that brief instant from their POV irrevocably changed thousands of years of history for the locals.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 1:56:55 GMT
May not even take that long. There's a hypothesis floating around in cultural studies at the moment that the change could theoretically occur within the two generations, following the passing away of those who were firsthand present for the War. A generation, in this case, being an average of thirty years. Likely in an effort to "streamline" history for future learning and popular entertainment. It's kind of happened already. For instance... If we take a period like World War II and lay out the major events in a timeline, it tends to lump together geographically smaller wars that took place within that time period under that umbrella. The Pacific War and the Winter War, in this case. One in the northern tundra with the Finns against the Soviets, the other in the tropics with a number of countries (at least a dozen) against the Japanese. One towards the beginning, one towards the end. Two very different engagements, but still WW2. I've a sneaking suspicion that the Last Great Time War also had a series of smaller conflicts brewing inside of it. Like The House that Jack Built. (Hmm... The War that Time Fought?) The Time War's an additional hassle with both blocs deliberately going around putting timelines in blenders. How do you determine a battle's been fought? They wiped out the other side to the last man. Okay... How about in situations where the time loop brings them all back to life and they continue fighting. Is that a new battle or a continuation of the old one? The Time War strikes me as a conflict where the battles themselves could have lasted longer than the whole war ultimately did.That's almost the definition of the entire conflict, really. Subjectively, from the point of view of the principals, the war lasts for what, centuries? (Four, according to Engines of War). But viewed objectively, the war spans the trillions of years of all of reality. And then there are things like the world in The Sontaran Ordeal: a world that was the site of only the briefest of Time War conflicts from the POV of the Time Lords and the Daleks, but that brief instant from their POV irrevocably changed thousands of years of history for the locals. Yeah, so documenting it in its entirety would be... interesting. Even from a purely subjective point of view. It wouldn't just be one side's word against another, it'd be the same individual's word against himself. Made all the more complicated by the fact that it's not the first of its kind either (and there may be overlap). Before the Last Great Time War, when Rassilon was young, the Time Lords had the Vampire Wars. Fought against beings the size of kaiju who emerged from another dimension. Anything more specific than that is really hard to verify, it's not clear even if there was a single event to "start" it as such. All we know of it nowadays comes from the myths and legends related to us by the Doctor. It's told as something dangerously close to a fictional fairytale for an actual historical event. A lot of Gallifrey is like that (the Death Zone, the N-Forms, etc.), I suspect because a detailed and objective historical account would sound like it was written in a delirium. I think you could say what happened (to a reasonable extent), but putting it in any kind of ordered sequence is going to be very difficult. It's deliberately contradictory, even one battle to its own self. The Book of the War (which might have happened?) is as close to an encyclopedia on events in a Time War as you can get. It tells the first fifty years of the War... in whatever way you choose to read it. It's deliberately non-linear.
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Post by icecreamdf on May 25, 2018 18:20:34 GMT
Does anybody know where I can find a timeline for Rassilon?
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Post by sherlock on May 25, 2018 18:30:58 GMT
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Post by icecreamdf on May 25, 2018 18:38:37 GMT
That’s probably the best I’m going to find, but I think a lot of the “currently unplaced” ones really can be placed.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2020 11:35:13 GMT
Question for you folks: is there a timeline of stories intersecting with the Earth's Moon?
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Post by sherlock on Oct 8, 2020 11:36:57 GMT
Question for you folks: is there a timeline of stories intersecting with the Earth's Moon? Not that I know of, but shouldn’t be too hard to put one together.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 8, 2020 11:40:04 GMT
Question for you folks: is there a timeline of stories intersecting with the Earth's Moon? Not that I know of, but shouldn’t be too hard to put one together. I'm interested if you're interested. Where to start, though...?
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Post by sherlock on Oct 8, 2020 12:03:03 GMT
Not that I know of, but shouldn’t be too hard to put one together. I'm interested if you're interested. Where to start, though...? Started a thread with a basic timeline based on the TARDIS Wiki list of appearances and the rough setting of the stories.
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Post by xlozdob on Oct 12, 2020 21:19:41 GMT
Does anyone know where the Doctor Who Infinity stories are supposed to take place? The first one, Dalek Invasion of Time, must be set during S10, the last leg at that, but Missy seems to have been separated from the Doctor for a while at the start of the story. The other ones I haven't played yet but would like to know if anyone has and got any clues as to where they could be set.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Aug 17, 2021 0:16:31 GMT
Does anyone know where the Doctor Who Infinity stories are supposed to take place? The first one, Dalek Invasion of Time, must be set during S10, the last leg at that, but Missy seems to have been separated from the Doctor for a while at the start of the story. The other ones I haven't played yet but would like to know if anyone has and got any clues as to where they could be set. I’m pretty sure that the version of Missy in that first story is from before her imprisonment in the vault. Not sure where the other stories fall though.
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