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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 13:34:19 GMT
Quote from Londo Mollari to G'Kar at the end of Babylon 5:
“When we met, I had no power and all the choices I could ever want. Now I have all the power I could ever want and no choices at all.”
The relevance to this thread?
Substitute the word control for power and you have a pretty good description of the paradox and tragedy of brexit
"Before brexit, the UK had no control and all the choices it could ever want. Now it has all the control it could ever want and no choices at all.” Before Brexit we DID have control.
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Post by number13 on Jan 31, 2020 13:44:13 GMT
Quote from Londo Mollari to G'Kar at the end of Babylon 5:
“When we met, I had no power and all the choices I could ever want. Now I have all the power I could ever want and no choices at all.” Except that when Londo said that, he had an evil supra-planetary power dictating his and his people's every move and eventually had to destroy part of his own world in order to break free of its deadly grip...
Read into that what you will!
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 31, 2020 13:47:36 GMT
Quote from Londo Mollari to G'Kar at the end of Babylon 5:
“When we met, I had no power and all the choices I could ever want. Now I have all the power I could ever want and no choices at all.” Except that when Londo said that, he had an evil supra-planetary power dictating his and his people's every move and eventually had to destroy part of his own world in order to break free of its deadly grip...
Read into that what you will! So will we - it's called Trump!
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Post by number13 on Jan 31, 2020 13:55:29 GMT
Except that when Londo said that, he had an evil supra-planetary power dictating his and his people's every move and eventually had to destroy part of his own world in order to break free of its deadly grip...
Read into that what you will! So will we - it's called Trump! But if someone wanted to make deals with both the Shadows and the Vorlons, they couldn't be too closely tied to either power, could they?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2020 23:07:43 GMT
I'm still in the 'I'll believe it when I see it' camp... OK, now I believe in it!
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Post by mark687 on Jan 31, 2020 23:09:58 GMT
I'm still in the 'I'll believe it when I see it' camp... OK, now I believe in it! Now we enter purgatory Regards mark687
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Post by number13 on Feb 1, 2020 0:48:02 GMT
Now we enter purgatory Regards mark687 Hopefully better than limbo - depending on the final destination...
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 1, 2020 7:11:29 GMT
Finally, a great day, I'm proud to be British.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 7:44:47 GMT
Finally, a great day, I'm proud to be British. I feel the complete opposite. But out of interest, how specifically will your life be better by leaving the EU.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Feb 1, 2020 8:59:36 GMT
Finally, a great day, I'm proud to be British. A very sad day as the UK undertakes what can only be an act of self harm under the leadership of a man with no moral compass whatsoever who doesn't even really believe in brexit but used it as a vehcle to get himself into power not caring about the damage he is doing to his country. I am normally proud to be british, but not today. Brexit is the result of all that is bad in british, or more accurately english, nationalism.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 9:33:57 GMT
Finally, a great day, I'm proud to be British. I wish I could agree with you in that sentiment. But until such time that I see the immense benefits of Brexit and a clear demonstration of how my life and my daughter's life will be improved beyond measure as a result then I'm going to have to respectfully disagree.
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Post by pawntake on Feb 1, 2020 10:01:56 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 11:23:36 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 12:11:27 GMT
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Post by sherlock on Feb 1, 2020 13:31:53 GMT
I was in Parliament Square for the moment Peladon left the Galactic Federation (Only went out of curiosity as my group found ourselves in a pub nearby as 11 approached). It was exactly as you’d expect it to be; signs attacking ‘traitors’ and calling for Farage to be PM, the worst rendition of the national anthem I’ve ever heard and one woman who bemoaned the unelected European Parliament (I don’t even know). I stayed at the fringes, but there’s some reports from journalists and photographers of a nasty atmosphere in the crowds.
And ironically for a Brexit event, once 11 pm happened it was clear there was no plan for afterwards and the crowds just shuffled off.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 15:53:42 GMT
I know these are probably more extreme examples but FFS!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 16:39:29 GMT
I see the hashtag #thick is trending on Twitter with 23k tweets, from pro remainers. Really, the level of insults and name calling because a sizeable proportion of the UK has a different perspective. There always were arguments for and against remaining or exiting. Most people on both sides are closer to meeting in the middle ground than the chattering classes care to see. Absolutism of ones own perspective is a very closed mindset. To me, it is more insulting of their own intelligence, given their refusal to see both sides of an argument, which I was always taught to appreciate and aspire to as a measure of cognitive ability.
Edit: And lets remember that it is not a closed door if it does not work out - the EU is clearly understanding of the national divide and had made it very clear that the door is open and we are welcome to return should we come to regret the decision. Nothing ventured nothing gained. We are not being treated as pariahs as there are similar movements in other countries and we are very much a test case for the future of the trading block. Adapt to survive is the lesson they are now looking towards, otherwise a domino effect could result. I suspect that should we wish to return, it would not be as a lesser partner, if the EU changes in response to these events. The mistakes that led to the referendum have been acknowledged by the press in other countries and the vitriol and mockery I have seen has been more pronounced within this country.
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Post by doctorkernow on Feb 1, 2020 18:04:55 GMT
Hello again.
You didn't happen to see Tom Allen, the comedian, who was covering proceedings for The Last Leg in Parliament Square. He was getting a bit of unwanted attention from bystanders, I hope he was okay. Oh and I can report that Adam Hills is now beardless, thank goodness.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 18:18:58 GMT
I see the hashtag #thick is trending on Twitter with 23k tweets, from pro remainers. Really, the level of insults and name calling because a sizeable proportion of the UK has a different perspective. There always were arguments for and against remaining or exiting. Most people on both sides are closer to meeting in the middle ground than the chattering classes care to see. Absolutism of ones own perspective is a very closed mindset. To me, it is more insulting of their own intelligence, given their refusal to see both sides of an argument, which I was always taught to appreciate and aspire to as a measure of cognitive ability. Edit: And lets remember that it is not a closed door if it does not work out - the EU is clearly understanding of the national divide and had made it very clear that the door is open and we are welcome to return should we come to regret the decision. Nothing ventured nothing gained. We are not being treated as pariahs as there are similar movements in other countries and we are very much a test case for the future of the trading block. Adapt to survive is the lesson they are now looking towards, otherwise a domino effect could result. I suspect that should we wish to return, it would not be as a lesser partner, if the EU changes in response to these events. The mistakes that led to the referendum have been acknowledged by the press in other countries and the vitriol and mockery I have seen has been more pronounced within this country.Well I for one am still waiting for someone who voted leave (& I have spoken to a few) to give me any real tangible reasons why they voted leave & how they will be better off having left the EU. There may very well be valid reasons but all I have heard are vague statements about getting our country back, getting our sovereignty back, & vague statements about getting Brexit done.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 19:02:51 GMT
I see the hashtag #thick is trending on Twitter with 23k tweets, from pro remainers. Really, the level of insults and name calling because a sizeable proportion of the UK has a different perspective. There always were arguments for and against remaining or exiting. Most people on both sides are closer to meeting in the middle ground than the chattering classes care to see. Absolutism of ones own perspective is a very closed mindset. To me, it is more insulting of their own intelligence, given their refusal to see both sides of an argument, which I was always taught to appreciate and aspire to as a measure of cognitive ability. Edit: And lets remember that it is not a closed door if it does not work out - the EU is clearly understanding of the national divide and had made it very clear that the door is open and we are welcome to return should we come to regret the decision. Nothing ventured nothing gained. We are not being treated as pariahs as there are similar movements in other countries and we are very much a test case for the future of the trading block. Adapt to survive is the lesson they are now looking towards, otherwise a domino effect could result. I suspect that should we wish to return, it would not be as a lesser partner, if the EU changes in response to these events. The mistakes that led to the referendum have been acknowledged by the press in other countries and the vitriol and mockery I have seen has been more pronounced within this country.Well I for one am still waiting for someone who voted leave (& I have spoken to a few) to give me any real tangible reasons why they voted leave & how they will be better off having left the EU. There may very well be valid reasons but all I have heard are vague statements about getting our country back, getting our sovereignty back, & vague statements about getting Brexit done. I made a case by way of example in another thread earlier (What has made your day or not). Furthermore, I have little concern about sovereignty etc, beyond the fact that the EU parliament does not hold executive power, that being held by the EU commission who are elected behind closed doors. The application of rules that are to the benefit of the whole block can sometimes be detrimental to individual member states. Another example to that provided by James Dyson (in the other thread), was that cited by the CEO of Tate & Lyle Sugars, which use Cane Sugars imported from outside of the EU. This is subject to Tariffs, whilst Beet Sugar such as used by Silverspoon and other European competitors, is sourced from within the EU and thereby not subject to Tariffs, but in fact in recipient of EU subsidy. The CEO of Tate & Lyle argued that his company was in effect having to subsidise his companies own competition through Tariffs. By ending our membership, it is anticipated that we may be able to move beyond a situation whereby British Manufacturers are not disadvantaged by subsidies that strengthen manufacturing in countries where the economy is deemed more dependent upon it, whilst other companies fall into administration elsewhere. Rules prevent member states bailing out companies from administration or providing subsidy themselves. I might add that I have watched none of the coverage of the 'celebrations' this past 24 hours. It is about 10 months premature to say the very least. There is a lot of work to do, which only really starts now. The Government may pull it off and credit to them, or the predictions of the remainers such as yourself will be vindicated. I have no power over anything so I will sit on the fence and see what happens. I am no fervent cheerleader, but merely wish to express my reasons for supporting the decision to exit. World Cup Football, Olympics and other events were supposed to be a substitute for ugly patriotism and jingoism, Flags belong atop public buildings, not waved by partisan crowds. That belongs in the realm of the dictator states, to me at least. Anyhow, I hope you appreciate that I am not argumentative. Feel free to counter with any benefits we stand to lose out on. I will quite likely agree with you on more than a few.
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