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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2020 22:10:01 GMT
Picard Ep 2 disappointed me massively. THey can't really expect us to think it's some kind of reveal that Treadaway's Romulan was actuallly a baddie can they? That's the most hamfisted reveal I've seen in a long time if so. It was amateur. I like the idea of Picard being against the Federation but call me hypocriticial but the f-bomb here was worse than in Discovery. There it was used in a new show with no old characters so I could kinda glance past it. Having it here when we're used to 15 years of no colourful language at all struck me as "We can swear...so let's". The Admiral could easily have gotten her anger over without it. I'm no puritan but it again seemed out of place. The political allegory is so on the nose it's almost hard to take at this point, and that's not good 2 eps in. Something needs to give soon. I can't take the Romulans as refugees while the Federation is shutting it's doors thing much more. I honestly thought this show would be deeper than Discovery and I don't think it is once you remove the affection we have because of the main character. If this were a new character, a similar Admiral who was having the same experiences I don't think the show would be getting a tenth of the buzz it is. It's all well acted enough but it's what they're given to do that's the issue. If the Romulans are really just going to use the revived Borg cube as a weapon to take revenge on the Federation who wronged them I'd kinda check out. It feels like I can kinda write the remainder of the season's outline at this point and, again, this soon in? If that's the case...I worry. For a show ditching TNG's standalone nature for season arcs...you need to be more deep in the story and not show all the cards too soon. Still...it's already renewed for Season 2. We all know Trek takes a season or two to find it's feet. And maybe the show will pick up when Picard gets the team together and we get off Earth (why did Orla's character act like the mystery twin being off Earth is a big deal? It's Trek, going off Earth is easier than me going to Edinburgh, 45 miles away). The show needs a pick me up and I'm not sure the nostalgia ticket of Troi and Riker is it. Maybe Seven Of Nine and Hugh, with the Borg connections, will be more important to the plot. I just finished watching the episode. I have to say I saw it much less critical than you did.
I actually do not think Treadaway's Romulan is a baddie. In the trailers, we see him as part of Picard's crew. I think he will become important, but not as a villain, I think he will turn out as one of the good guys. Just the way he plays it. It is clear he has his own agenda. But that does not necessarily mean an evil agenda.
I also do not mind the swearing too much, as long as it does not go over board, and it did not do so here (in my opinion).
I still have not seen Discovery, so I cannot make any connection or comparison myself.
As for the political commentary... yes, it is on the nose. Only slightly more subtle than Doctor Who at the moment.
I have no issue with the message, and by all means, call me a "liberal".
But I agree that there are less placative ways of presenting a message. It can get a bit much after a while.
I do not think the Romulans are just using the Borg cube as weapon to get revenge. That would be a bit cheap and we already had that plot in the movies. That would be the cheapest re-hash and I would not only be disappointed, but offended to be honest.
I think there is more to it than we can see at the moment. There is still some vital plot element missing.
Yeah, Troi and Riker will only be glorified extras in the next episode, I do not think it will be more. Just for old times sake.
But I believe Seven of Nine and Hugh will play a much bigger part and I do hope we get a Geth/ Kaylon plot, not just a Romulan revenge plot. Or another Borg invasion.
After all, Data's daughter is involved, this will go deeper.
At least I still keep my hopes up for that.
There's absolutely zero point in us taking this further till the season is done as we'll know by then - neither of us obviously wants it to be bad, or to turn out bad - but the warning signs are out there. I know from speaking to Audio Watchdog this is also an ep that troubles him for where the show is and where it's going. All I'll say is you have more faith than me in the writing and plotting we've seen so far. Untill it's all done we won't know if it's as cookie cutter as it seems right now. Yet Disco was, and after a fifth of the season - a decent chunk - I'm seeing this as much closer to that level of story and plot, and character than I'd like. Time will tell. If you'd told me in December that Chibnall/Jodie Who was more engaging and unpredictable than this show...I'd have called you nuts!
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 1, 2020 22:20:18 GMT
I just finished watching the episode. I have to say I saw it much less critical than you did.
I actually do not think Treadaway's Romulan is a baddie. In the trailers, we see him as part of Picard's crew. I think he will become important, but not as a villain, I think he will turn out as one of the good guys. Just the way he plays it. It is clear he has his own agenda. But that does not necessarily mean an evil agenda.
I also do not mind the swearing too much, as long as it does not go over board, and it did not do so here (in my opinion).
I still have not seen Discovery, so I cannot make any connection or comparison myself.
As for the political commentary... yes, it is on the nose. Only slightly more subtle than Doctor Who at the moment.
I have no issue with the message, and by all means, call me a "liberal".
But I agree that there are less placative ways of presenting a message. It can get a bit much after a while.
I do not think the Romulans are just using the Borg cube as weapon to get revenge. That would be a bit cheap and we already had that plot in the movies. That would be the cheapest re-hash and I would not only be disappointed, but offended to be honest.
I think there is more to it than we can see at the moment. There is still some vital plot element missing.
Yeah, Troi and Riker will only be glorified extras in the next episode, I do not think it will be more. Just for old times sake.
But I believe Seven of Nine and Hugh will play a much bigger part and I do hope we get a Geth/ Kaylon plot, not just a Romulan revenge plot. Or another Borg invasion.
After all, Data's daughter is involved, this will go deeper.
At least I still keep my hopes up for that.
There's absolutely zero point in us taking this further till the season is done as we'll know by then - neither of us obviously wants it to be bad, or to turn out bad - but the warning signs are out there. I know from speaking to Audio Watchdog this is also an ep that troubles him for where the show is and where it's going. All I'll say is you have more faith than me in the writing and plotting we've seen so far. Untill it's all done we won't know if it's as cookie cutter as it seems right now. Yet Disco was, and after a fifth of the season - a decent chunk - I'm seeing this as much closer to that level of story and plot, and character than I'd like. Time will tell. If you'd told me in December that Chibnall/Jodie Who was more engaging and unpredictable than this show...I'd have called you nuts! I admit right now both shows are about even where my engagement level is concerned.
But I have to hand it to Chibnall- he got the fandom talking again. He has us all paying attention now and after the last series, I had doubted that Who would again become this gripping (as it last was during Moffat's era).
But, as you rightly say, both Picard and Who completely depend on the resolution how it will be received and judged.
Tall order. It might be both turn out amazing and blow our minds. Or only one will.
Or it might not. I for one always prefer to keep my hopes up.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 1, 2020 22:26:38 GMT
And episode 2 of Picard was basically 46 minutes of exposition. Trek has always been, for lack of a better word, talkie but this was ridiculous. And the political allegory is too on the nose. Episode three is also supposed to be more piece moving to get Picard into space with whatever ragtag crew he is assembling. I am still hopeful for the series but episode two really deflated my ballon. We will see.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 1, 2020 23:08:04 GMT
And episode 2 of Picard was basically 46 minutes of exposition. Trek has always been, for lack of a better word, talkie but this was ridiculous. And the political allegory is too on the nose. Episode three is also supposed to be more piece moving to get Picard into space with whatever ragtag crew he is assembling. I am still hopeful for the series but episode two really deflated my ballon. We will see. But it was interesting exposition, adding some nice mysteries and an ancient conspiracy to chew on (why exactly would ancient Romulans be so adverse to AI? Well.... Iconians maybe? Any of the other ancient races used complex AI, maybe it’s an old prejudice from them). As for the attack on Mars, it doesn’t seem a very “Data” thing to do, but Lore? Or Control?? It being the result of Control would tie nicely into Discovery.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 1, 2020 23:12:42 GMT
And episode 2 of Picard was basically 46 minutes of exposition. Trek has always been, for lack of a better word, talkie but this was ridiculous. And the political allegory is too on the nose. Episode three is also supposed to be more piece moving to get Picard into space with whatever ragtag crew he is assembling. I am still hopeful for the series but episode two really deflated my ballon. We will see. But it was interesting exposition, adding some nice mysteries and an ancient conspiracy to chew on (why exactly would ancient Romulans be so adverse to AI? Well.... Iconians maybe? Any of the other ancient races used complex AI, maybe it’s an old prejudice from them). As for the attack on Mars, it doesn’t seem a very “Data” thing to do, but Lore? Or Control?? It being the result of Control would tie nicely into Discovery. You were more forgiving of it than I was.
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Post by Digi on Feb 2, 2020 0:47:49 GMT
No pleasing some people...
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Post by mark687 on Feb 2, 2020 0:58:20 GMT
No pleasing some people... We're Cult TV Fans that a given Regards mark687
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Post by Digi on Feb 2, 2020 1:22:27 GMT
No pleasing some people... We're Cult TV Fans that a given Regards mark687 LOL true
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 2, 2020 3:39:52 GMT
No pleasing some people... That is rather condescending. God forbid people have opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 3:48:07 GMT
No pleasing some people... That is rather condescending. God forbid people have opinions. Or, alternatively some people are too easily pleased. And thus the show will unite both wings in indifference by season's end. As I said, we all want the show to be good. It's in nobody's interest for it to be otherwise. Personally...I'm pleased by the good stuff. The bad stuff - not so much! If it gets good - like Doctor Who has been starting to do this year - then I'll start praising it more. If it stays mediocre, I'm not going to exalt it just for giving P-Stew a nice pension top up. Both you and I have loved a looooooooot of Trek and spent manys a night online discussing it, from The Cage to the new Picards - the full thing.. Just get us started on DS9, most of TOS and TNG, bits of Voyager and the first 6 movies. Yes, even Motion Picture and Final Frontier please me. Guess I'm easily pleased too!
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Post by pazzer on Feb 2, 2020 15:36:01 GMT
Maybe it's because I'm not up on my trek lore but am finding myself going huh quite a bit while watching Picard. It's still fine but not really what I'm looking for in a star trek series. Maybe that will change once they actually get into space.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 15:56:54 GMT
And am just about to watch...now avoiding spoilers 😉 for part 2
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 16:08:25 GMT
And am just about to watch...now avoiding spoilers 😉 for part 2 Probably best avoiding this thread till after you watch eps just in case - spoilers are in the title!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2020 17:08:55 GMT
I do I really enjoyed episode two. Am intrigued by it all.
What I can say is it’s fresh not only to see young actors but an abundance of great older female characters in strong roles times really have changed . First off another Romulan secret service(just as devious as the CIA)
Now the Borg I just can’t see Alice Krige not raising her appendages into this story given that she Manipulated and tried to take control of Data in First Contact somehow I feel she could in some way be in some way have infiltrated Data at a program left a virus or something in him to get activated at a later date that for me would help with the potential calamity in Mars .I like to juggle these thoughts.
was it exposition yes but I thoroughly enjoyed it all and it’s so visually beautiful and also well acted especially by the Female starfleet officers...and plenty to ponder over after a rewatch tomorrow .
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2020 17:02:44 GMT
Oh very silent on Picard? Am just about to embark on episode 3 with my steak pie and a whisky
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 8, 2020 17:11:50 GMT
Oh very silent on Picard? Am just about to embark on episode 3 with my steak pie and a whisky I am just about to sit down and watch it. Give a lady a break. And I also have to rustle up some dinner.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2020 17:13:22 GMT
Oh very silent on Picard? Am just about to embark on episode 3 with my steak pie and a whisky I am just about to sit down and watch it. Give a lady a break. And I also have to rustle up some dinner.
Ok lol ten minutes ahead of you lol 😂😂😂🤪
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 8, 2020 17:27:19 GMT
I am just about to sit down and watch it. Give a lady a break. And I also have to rustle up some dinner.
Ok lol ten minutes ahead of you lol 😂😂😂🤪 Okay, so you win. Now, let's see what is in the fridge.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2020 18:02:10 GMT
Well another great female character added to the team. I am still sticking to my Borg Queen Theory that Data’s Daughters are the product of some Union antics with Alice Krige .That the Failure of the Borg Cube was the Birth of these two Synthetics.Hugh? Is He the HUGH ? And yes he is lol With The Romulan patient and the “tarot”cards I think even more so that Soji is a The NEW queen hence she also knows why the vessel was the last to be assimilated before it was severed from the Borg Network or she is ROmana as they have the same title 🤪
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 8, 2020 19:12:56 GMT
Well another great female character added to the team. I am still sticking to my Borg Queen Theory that Data’s Daughters are the product of some Union antics with Alice Krige .That the Failure of the Borg Cube was the Birth of these two Synthetics.Hugh? Is He the HUGH ? And yes he is lol With The Romulan patient and the “tarot”cards I think even more so that Soji is a The NEW queen hence she also knows why the vessel was the last to be assimilated before it was severed from the Borg Network or she is ROmana as they have the same title 🤪 You might be onto something there.
However, I do not believe we get a Who crossover. Not yet.
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