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Post by tuigirl on Feb 8, 2020 19:20:55 GMT
Well, I liked this. I mean, how can you not like this? For an exposition episode this was great. And finally we see the crew coming together. I like the shady dealings with the Tal Shiar and what appears to be shaping up as the back story. This has some great potential for conflict- and conflict makes great drama. Looking forward to the next episode!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 4:44:20 GMT
Well, I liked this. I mean, how can you not like this? For an exposition episode this was great. And finally we see the crew coming together. I like the shady dealings with the Tal Shiar and what appears to be shaping up as the back story. This has some great potential for conflict- and conflict makes great drama. Looking forward to the next episode! Yes agree I like the pacing to be honest the slower moments.No real fast cutting. I also like the action sequences because Patrick’s no spring chicken anymore and requires bodyguards lol. Its also nice to see potential corruption within Starfleet-shock horror ,yes even Starfleet can drive you to drink and drugs.(Unless you are an original crew member of Picards of course because that wouldn’t be right lol)But Deanna well just saying she had potential alcoholic all over her. I’d really love a cameo from Commander Shelby from Best Of Both Worlds,I mean that girl was going to go far. The inclusion of Hugh was well done and it was until post I realised it was him (am getting older lol). Roll on the next epsiode
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 6:18:28 GMT
Episode 3...and I'm enjoying the direction of travel so far. Interesting new characters (Laris and Zhaban so need their own spin off show..winegrowers by day, kick ass private investigators by night.. 🤪), the return of old friends (Hugh!), slowly developing plot threads and an awful lot of questions..
Soji is the destroyer? What the heck is that about? Why were the reclaimed Borg so furious with her/ scared of her? What is the deal with Picard and Raffi? And Captain Rios? Is Agnes more than the innocent she appears to be? How did the syths strike at Utopia Planitia so easily? Where were the various fleets at the time of the attack? Could Starfleet Command have been infiltrated? Would certainly explain their willingness to accept the resignation of a flag officer with over half a century's worth of experience. Would certainly explain Commodore Oh's actions too..unless of course she is a surgically altered Romulan? If synths are outlawed in the Federation, how has Rios got an EMH and ENH? Is there a black market in emergency holograms? And what happened to Voyager's Doctor when the ban was imposed? Above all....was I really the only person to be wearing a dopey grin on my face when Picard said "engage" and the TNG theme was playing? 😊
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 9, 2020 11:30:32 GMT
Episode 3...and I'm enjoying the direction of travel so far. Interesting new characters (Laris and Zhaban so need their own spin off show..winegrowers by day, kick ass private investigators by night.. 🤪), the return of old friends (Hugh!), slowly developing plot threads and an awful lot of questions.. Soji is the destroyer? What the heck is that about? Why were the reclaimed Borg so furious with her/ scared of her? What is the deal with Picard and Raffi? And Captain Rios? Is Agnes more than the innocent she appears to be? How did the syths strike at Utopia Planitia so easily? Where were the various fleets at the time of the attack? Could Starfleet Command have been infiltrated? Would certainly explain their willingness to accept the resignation of a flag officer with over half a century's worth of experience. Would certainly explain Commodore Oh's actions too..unless of course she is a surgically altered Romulan? If synths are outlawed in the Federation, how has Rios got an EMH and ENH? Is there a black market in emergency holograms? And what happened to Voyager's Doctor when the ban was imposed? Above all....was I really the only person to be wearing a dopey grin on my face when Picard said "engage" and the TNG theme was playing? 😊 Oh yes. Laris and Zhaban are the best characters so far (well, apart from Picard of course). They are bada$$ but down to earth and lovely at the same time. I was also astounded that Picard and his house keepers kept so many hidden guns in the house.
As for the reclaimed Borg... as I understood, the ones in the cell were all former Romulans where "something went wrong with the assimilation". It has been hinted in episode 2 and this one, that there is some dark secret in Romulan history involving AI and computers. My guess is, that there was something like the Butlerian Jihad/ Geth/ Kaylon going on and there was an AI war and genocide of artificial life and the horrors have been deeply ingrained in the Romulan psyche. Maybe AI is viewed as something unclean, even if the average citizen does not know the origins of this cultural stigma. So for a Romulan being assimilated by the Borg would be a fate out of a nightmare, like they lose their souls and will never be people again.
And this is also why Soji is the anti-christ. This is what I took away so far.
And the Tal Shiar working together with Starfleet security... well, the Tal Shiar has a long history of doing all these shady co-operations with the enemy. They did it with the Klingons and they did it with the Obsidian Order.
Often against the will or knowledge of the Empire government.
And Starfleet themselves are not above these things, need I mention Section 31?
So no, I do not think Oh is a Romulan operative but a genuine shady Starfleet secret agent.
As for the other questions- I am sure this will all be revealed. And Robert Picardo has already signed up for season 2, so we will definitely find out what happened to Voyager's EMH.
And no, I also had the biggest grin and that warm fuzzy feeling in my belly when Picard said Engage.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 13, 2020 23:00:30 GMT
Episode 4. Some interesting stuff but it still feels like the show is treading water. Almost at the halfway mark and we don’t know what the show is about. Parents & children maybe? Data had children that he never knew and Picard has a surrogate son that he more or less abandoned when he walked away from Starfleet. I don’t know. Romulan ninja nuns is a concept I would like to see more of. I like Allison Pill and how she has turned into the comedic foil for the show. Anyway, here is hoping things start happening.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2020 23:57:48 GMT
Episode 4. Some interesting stuff but it still feels like the show is treading water. Almost at the halfway mark and we don’t know what the show is about. Parents & children maybe? Data had children that he never knew and Picard has a surrogate son that he more or less abandoned when he walked away from Starfleet. I don’t know. Romulan ninja nuns is a concept I would like to see more of. I like Allison Pill and how she has turned into the comedic foil for the show. Anyway, here is hoping things start happening. The first two sentences you posted are exactly what I said to you on Facebook when you asked what I'd thought before you watched - so I'm glad you think so too. It's just still so very slow and going through the motions. There's such a difference between measured and slow and this falls into the latter. That's 3 weeks in a row now we've seen EXACTLY the same scene with Harry Treadaway's Romulan and his sister. Nothing new about each time, just repetition. While the rag-tag group is shaping up to be more Firefly than Trek. When Picard visits the Romulan site again the allegory is so on the nose about real-world refugees and families being separated at borders that it was hard to believe this show is the one hyped to be the more cerebral Trek of the 21st century - with Michael Chabon, Pulitzer and all, as showrunner. They're doing nothing clever with the concepts, nothing bold or defiant. It's showing no more nuance than Discovery. I'm also struggling in these flashbacks to reconcile Picard with the TNG version. He seems to have become an entirely different person after TNG as Stewart is playing (and is written as) much more his Charles Xavier role than Jean Luc Picard. It's half way through next week and I don't know - even slightly - what I'm supposed to be getting from this. There's little mystery, no passion and no wonder, spectacle or vision. If that wasn't Patrick Stewart in the lead no-one would even know this was Trek. I've got no issue changing things from the status quo, I love subversion of expectation, but you then need to find something narratively interesting to replace what came before. This show just isn't yet. I really can't wait for them to actually make a Trek show that feels like optimistic exploration again. Just gimme that Pike, Spock and Number One show...
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 14, 2020 21:27:36 GMT
Hmm. Episode 4.
I continue to like this. I enjoy the slow pace and the flashbacks and the quirky characters. And the scenery and views are absolutely stunning! This time I was more than a little bit reminded of Rivendell and the Lord of the Rings, with the Romulan Battle Nuns living in that big tree. Romulan Battle Nuns!!!! This is absolutely awesome. I hope we get to see more of them. They also appear to have German ancestors, , for having total and unapologetic directness as a creed. No wonder the secretive Tal Shiar is their enemy. I just thought the orphan boy brought up by the nuns was VERY cliched. I was hoping at first they would not go down that route. But sadly they did. I think that was maybe the cheapest plot development this series has seen so far.
I agree that this feels a bit like Firefly, and I think that is deliberate. I have no issue with this, I like Firefly. But you know what this reminds me of even more? Mass Effect. The whole assembling of the crew, all the AI mystery background... It took more than a leaf out of Mass Effect's book.
Which is fine, too, since I also love Mass Effect.
So is this a real Star Trek series? Hmm. Hard to say. I think for my feel good and optimistic exploration I am more looking forward to the next season of the Orville which has become THE successor of TNG in its own right.
As for the political allegories... they are VERY VERY on the nose. Basically, in Who terms, Orphan 55 level of on the nose. However, I only found this mildly annoying, maybe I am just getting used to it?
And then there is the cliffhanger. Which was a bit spoiled when you have seen and read the opening credits and knew and waited for that person to arrive. But what an entrance! I assume and hope she becomes part of the crew?
I look forward to next week.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 9:27:56 GMT
I agree with a lot of the comments here. This show really needs to just get on with it & start moving the plot forward. There's no urgency to what's going on. The Borg cube scenes are repetitive. It's difficult to invest in another new character introduced through a long flashback. But I hope we get more scenes with Picard dressed like the Man from Del Monte.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2020 18:33:28 GMT
Exactly, it's done in 4 eps what Firefly and the 2004 BSG reboot managed in their 90 minute pilots. We're half way through the series nearly and still putting the band together. Structure wise I'm really glad this wasn't released as one big lot, the first act has taken up half the show and based on next week's snynopsis that isn't going to change. We need to move on to what the show is actually about now....if you're doing a "Putting a team together to go on a mission" story it's one of the easiest structures possible. This doesn't seem to know how to do it.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 21, 2020 21:38:02 GMT
Exactly, it's done in 4 eps what Firefly and the 2004 BSG reboot managed in their 90 minute pilots. We're half way through the series nearly and still putting the band together. Structure wise I'm really glad this wasn't released as one big lot, the first act has taken up half the show and based on next week's snynopsis that isn't going to change. We need to move on to what the show is actually about now....if you're doing a "Putting a team together to go on a mission" story it's one of the easiest structures possible. This doesn't seem to know how to do it. Exactly. Halfway through and the show is a hot mess.
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 21, 2020 22:43:15 GMT
Hmm. Just watched the latest episode (5) and I enjoyed it. I agree that this show is not as amazing as series 12 of Who has turned out to be (I actually thought I would like Picard waaay more), but I still like it and I also like to play "Spot all the Easter Eggs". I also do get the criticism that this is not really Trek- no, well, especially with this episode which has quite a lot of violence and gore. For Trek, this is too dark, too fatalistic, too brutal, too violent. There is no optimistic outlook, there is no grand vision. It reminds me more and more of Mass Effect (which itself had a lot of nods to TNG).
As for the episode itself- the show continues to look amazing. I again loved the views and the CGI- especially these advertising holograms were great! In great Mass Effect style we also get a sinister bar with a dark figure behind the scenes running it- and in general, I am someone who really is into Alien bars and markets in SciFi shows.
I loved the dress-up as shady dealers and Sir Patrick is hilarious as the French guy with the eye patch.
But the very best thing about the whole episode is Jeri Ryan. She is absolutely amazing. She absolutely steals the show and is even overshadowing Picard himself. Now I want a series of Jeri Ryan being awesome as a vigilante Ranger! (Best teaming up with the Romulan Battle Nuns- just imagine how awesome that would be!!!)
I really hope we will see more of her!
This time, we did not get any scenes on that Borg cube, which maybe was a good thing since that was not really getting anywhere yet.
But we get plenty of heart wrenching character moments, shady characters and betrayal. As I said before, no, this does not feel like Trek. This is not an optimistic exploration of the universe, the joy of discovering new civilisations.
This is sneaking through the swamps of the underbelly of Federation society and witnessing the shady dealings of secret organizations and conspiracies.
I think when I want more optimistic TNG vibe, I come back and look forward to the Orville. Picard however scratches my itch for Mass Effect- style storytelling.
I also get the feeling that this series is not really about the big goal or the big plan, it is more about the journey and all the blind alleys of getting there.
I just enjoy it as it comes along.
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Post by Digi on Feb 21, 2020 23:19:19 GMT
I seem to be landing the opposite from some of you... I've been quite happy with the show's pacing so far. I'm enjoying the approach of slowly gathering the team and getting to know everyone as we go. It's a refreshing change of pace from the more commonplace TV approach of doing a whole bunch of action, realizing they need character development to make the stakes relevant, then doing only one or two episodes of that before going back to a whole bunch of action. I like that Picard takes time to breathe and get to know everyone and to feel things out. Picard episode 5 spoilers Last night's episode was a real mixed bag for me. The costume/dress-up business was an absolute ball. Picard playing an over-the-top French villain with an eyepatch had me busting a gut, and Rios as the pimp bounty hunter, and Elnor just being totally clueless. Loved all of that stuff. And I liked the Raffi side story too, even though I'll admit it felt like it came a little bit out of left field.
But I was deeply, deeply unsettled by what they did with Icheb. This is a character who was essentially a child character (but you know, not annoying like Wesley), and for those of us watching 20 years ago, that's kind of how he's baked into our brains. And while I get that there's a certain consistent logic behind wanting to make Seven jaded, I thought it was a shocking cruelty to have this character (essentially a child character in our memories) essentially tortured to death and die in agony. That's a sort of sadism that I didn't think was possible in Trek, and I'm really, really not comfortable with them doing. And it seems all the worse to me because it's basically a throwaway--Seven isn't even part of the show's main cast, so they did this horrific thing just to give a guest character a story for one hour. That to me makes something that was already cruel/sadistic feel even more sadistic and unnecessary.
I'm not going to stop watching or anything--I've been watching Trek since I was two years old. I'm still looking forward to next week, I'm still dying for Discovery Season 3, and I can't wait to see what they do with the other shows they have in the pipe. But I do very sincerely hope that they never again do anything like that.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2020 0:09:41 GMT
See, I don't see this as "taking our time to get to know everyone" kind of storytelling. That'd be fine. This is taking it's time and barely getting to know anyone at all. The end of Disco S2 saw me wish we were watching the Pike crew instead and this weeks Picard made me wish we were getting the "7 of 9: Space Ranger" show as they did more convincing me of her past post-Voyager than they have of Picard's, and set up her struggles in a more interesting way. I don't buy that Picard, who with decades of past with Crusher still kept her at arm's length, has this really close relationship with Rafi. How long could he possibly have known her after Nemesis but post their big falling out 15 years before the show starts? He seemed to open up more to her than he did to every TNG character combined in years and years combined. I don't know Rafi but they want to sell us on her sad family situation already? No...screenwriting 101 - you make us like her for a while then we can do that. We don't care about someone we barely know on anything more than a superficial level. If we waited and we really got to KNOW Rafi then we saw her relationship with her son like that, we could be emotional wrecks. But, no, toss off that development for some cheap skin deep reaction a few weeks after we meet her....cheap.
The show, again, seems to be going for the old rag-tag crew on a mission model. That really only works if you take a shine to the characters and I don't know any of them at all, increasingly even Picard. Again this is still feeling like a generic space show that has Patrick Stewart in it riffing his X-Men role more than his Trek one. As Tuigirl says this feels more like Mass Effect. I don't know that much about games but I know enough to know, yes, it does feel more like that. I've been going to "Firefly starring Professor X" but the big difference is that 5 eps into Firefly I knew the characters, and had much more affection for them, than anyone here...including the character who I've idolised since the late 80s-early 90s in Jean Luc Picard.
Then killing Icheb, I mean that would have been a fine enough backstory motivation for Seven but did they need to show the body-horror of his death and torture? He's not the most remembered character from Voyager but to use him as fuel just to make another character not get their happy ever after in this bleak federation future? It's unsettling to the point of really starting to undermine Trek in general. If there's NO utopia at all...where's the Trek? Rafi accused Picard 2 weeks ago of retreating to his fancy Chateau leaving her with nothing. Where's the society that leaves no-one in need or want? Even if we got the idea that most things were still great for everyone but Picard knows there's a lie underpinning the utopia, I could enjoy that, but what we're getting here is just a new show wanting to have its cake and eat it too in terms of callbacks and characters but also completely re-write the premise of the setting of the show and the main character's traits. You've got to show us the status quo first before subverting things becomes an interesting idea. Imagine if the Marvel movies started with Hydra already infiltrating the idealistic SHIELD, for example. You need the light to know what the darkness is when it comes.
It's bad conceptually, poorly paced and uninvolving. All the actors are doing their best with paper thin characters and the effects and designs are great but I come back to the idea that if this were called Admiral Smith and involved Space-Fleet over Picard and Starfleet...it wouldn't have gotten past a pilot, if it even got that far as this is just nothing new to the genre and not a solid, even worthy, addition to either Trek in general or the future of Picard (or Seven). I'm watching as a Trek fan and a Picard one...yet getting little out of this from either POV. And even less as a fan of sci-fi or drama in general. I didn't think there was even a chance of this being true but as of now it's well below either series of Disco in my rankings of this new era of Trek. I'd be so bold as to say Enterprise was the last time I felt so unenthused by Trek (yes, including all 3 Kelvin movies) but at least Braga, Berman and co had burnout as something of an excuse. Running on fumes after 15 years? OK. After a few weeks. An issue.
Still....they've got 5 hours to save the season which could be plenty of time IF they make moves fast now we're heading to the Cube. They've got a S2 anyway so there's time for this show - and Picard's legacy as a character both in and out of universe - to be preserved once more. Michael Chabon, the showrunner, quit before S1 even aired and Kurtzman apparently has little to do with this show, so it's possible, even probable that Terry Matalas, the new showrunner, has his own ideas and could shake things up quite a bit as this Borg/Romulan/Synths thing surely doesn't feel strong enough to anyone to be a multi-season arc.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 22, 2020 0:26:46 GMT
At least we didn’t get the two Romulans having the same exact conversation yet again. Something I say to writers all the time is how something can be both overwritten and underwritten, which means a piece gives me a little bit of stuff I like and wish to see more of whole also shoveling at me a lot of stuff I have no interest in. That is where I’m at with Picard. Five episodes in and I don’t buy any of the relationships. David and I spoke about the absurdity of the scenes involving Rafi tracking down her son. I have absolutely nothing invested in the character because the show has done a crap job of developing her. It was a huge wtf moment for me and probably the defining moment of me kind of checking out on the series. The writing of the show is so very sloppy. Yeah it looks great but that is pretty much the most positive thing I can point to. Like David, moving forward.....we only have five episodes left so let’s hope stuff like the reveal of....oh I don’t know....a plot starts to reveal itself.....I’m watching out of Star Trek loyalty. I really, really, really hope the show can turn things around but right now. I just don’t know if the show has that in it.
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Post by pazzer on Feb 24, 2020 16:50:18 GMT
Storytelling feels clunky. The overall plot is going at a snails pace but seem to be trying to do several episodes of character development in just few scenes. Episode 3 and 4 are basically the same. Shame Seven's appearance was spoilt by the credits.
Episode 5 is the best so far. Though the opening was hard to watch. I do not want a horror movie in my Trek. Seven was amazing and hopefully gets a spinoff. Have got so used to it that was disappointed there was no brother sister scene.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 24, 2020 17:55:48 GMT
Seven was amazing and hopefully gets a spinoff. Yeah, David & I have discussed how this episode felt more like a pilot for a Seven of Nine series than an episode of Picard. And at the halfway point of season one of Picard, that is a problem.
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Post by pazzer on Feb 28, 2020 8:41:47 GMT
Feels like stuff is finally happening. They haven't done a very good job catching me up to where Picard is now and the stuff with the borg feels like it's been done before in TNG and First Contact.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 28, 2020 23:41:25 GMT
This is the first episode where it doesn’t feel like the show is just biding it’s time. I think Rafi is maybe the worst, most broadly drawn character in Trek history. That said, I really liked all the Hugh and Picard material. It finally feels like maybe the show is letting us know what the stakes are. Six hours and and what we have could easily have been done in half the time.
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 29, 2020 20:24:25 GMT
Ah. Finally we are getting somewhere! I loved the scenes between Picard and Hugh.
This continues to grab my attention. I still do not think it feels like proper Star Trek, but for some strange reason, this also does not disappoint me.
It is maybe not what I had hoped it would be, but at the same time, it is not bad. Not bad at all.
I also cannot fail to notice the similarities and differences between this and the Cyberman story over at Who. Here, the Borg are humanized and they are shown as victims. Quite the opposite of what is happening simultaneously with the Cybermen. It is as if the two shows are mirroring each other.
How interesting. And this although at a guess the two production teams did not coordinate between each other.
I am curious where we go next. Nepenthe somehow sounds Klingon... I wonder if we get some involvement from the Empire? And which faces the Klingons would be showing this time?
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Post by Digi on Feb 29, 2020 22:00:05 GMT
I also cannot fail to notice the similarities and differences between this and the Cyberman story over at Who.
Here, the Borg are humanized and they are shown as victims. Quite the opposite of what is happening simultaneously with the Cybermen. It is as if the two shows are mirroring each other.
How interesting. And this although at a guess the two production teams did not coordinate between each other.
Yeah..the Borg and the Cybermen have always had a conceptual similarity. Both cybernetic creatures, who replace organic parts with synthetic, "convert" and "assimilate" may as well be synonyms for what each is doing to you, both operate on a similar 'even if we don't make you into one of us right now, one day you will all be part of our race' modus operandi, etc. There's differences to be sure, but they are remarkably similar in concept and always have been. I am curious where we go next. Nepenthe somehow sounds Klingon... I wonder if we get some involvement from the Empire? And which faces the Klingons would be showing this time?
Aha, it took me a little bit to figure out what I was having the same thought: because the word "Napenthe" sounds a whole heck of a lot like "Rura Penthe," the Klingon dilithium mine asteroid that Kirk and McCoy were sent to in Undiscovered Country (Now watch it have nothing at all to do with Klingons lol)
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