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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 12:59:46 GMT
Axanar, maybe not so much Well, if nothing else, the lawsuit can be entertaining. I'm hoping it's resolved in an amicable manner between the two conflicting parties. I paid very good money to see the series get up off its feet and I'd prefer it didn't go to waste over something as glib and childish as the copyright to the Klingon language. Still, I'm learning quite a lot about legalities from the whole issue and that Star Trek as an intellectual property is not as cut-and-dried as it first might appear. Trek's haitus was very bad. I think Who fans were spoiled by "The Wilderness Years" - countless books, audios and merchandise while the show was off air. After Nemesis and Enterprise, Trek really did roll over and die for a few years. Yeah, there was fan work but the books dried up massively and there's never been a great deal of audio Trek. It's odd that such a massive fandom doesn't generate more spin-off material. Doctor Who and Star Trek have two very different kinds of fandom from what I've seen. I'm going to speak in broad generalisations here, but when the hiatus came and the Wilderness Years blew in, creativity for the show exploded outwards because there was never one particular vision for such a longtime series. You had stories ranging from Paul Cornell's space operas to Ben Aaronovitch's pastiches to Kate Orman's hurt/comfort, the series was alive and thriving in a way it couldn't ever really have on television. Trek on the other hand has a vision that was dictated by one man and that man was Gene Roddenberry. Now, from what's been explained to me, there is something called "the Roddenberry ideal" where everything had to fit into a utopian box dictated by the man himself. That, I think, left an indelible mark on how expansion in Trek is handled. Everything is tightly regulated, carefully calculated, balanced against previous continuity and triple checked to see if it meets with Gene's vision. He fits into the same category of creator as George Lucas, great at worldbuilding and establishing characters, but the actual writing and directing should be left to someone else. They make the toys, but they break them when they try to use them. We're extremely lucky in Who that no one can come along and say: "Yeah, the Big Finish main range is non-canon," or "Oh, that doesn't match up with Sidney Newman's vision." It's all subjective and left up to the individual to fashion into a cohesive whole if they wish.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 13:22:55 GMT
I think that used to be true but Roddenberry lost almost all control over the direction of the franchise long before he died. The Motion Picture had flopped meaning that he had very little consultation on any film after that. He was "producer" in name only. He assumed he would have a lot more control over TNG but it became apparent in production of Season 1 that he was not only out of touch with contemporary TV but also unwilling to bend to anyone else having control so he was ultimately taken off that too. In essence, Roddenberry had almost no real power with Trek post 1970s and while, of course, everyone would pay lipservice to him this was really just that - no-one was taking him seriously. Much of this has only come out in the past decade or so. I'd recommend the documentary Chaos On The Bridge for more. Jeffrey Katzenberg, John Pike and David Gerrold all reveal how difficult Roddenberry had become, and how they couldn't wait to get him out. He was a figurehead, for sure, but nothing more than that before he died.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2016 13:33:56 GMT
I think that used to be true but Roddenberry lost almost all control over the direction of the franchise long before he died. The Motion Picture had flopped meaning that he had very little consultation on any film after that. He was "producer" in name only. He assumed he would have a lot more control over TNG but it became apparent in production of Season 1 that he was not only out of touch with contemporary TV but also unwilling to bend to anyone else having control so he was ultimately taken off that too. In essence, Roddenberry had almost no real power with Trek post 1970s and while, of course, everyone would pay lipservice to him this was really just that - no-one was taking him seriously. Much of this has only come out in the past decade or so. I'd recommend the documentary Chaos On The Bridge for more. Jeffrey Katzenberg, John Pike and David Gerrold all reveal how difficult Roddenberry had become, and how they couldn't wait to get him out. He was a figurehead, for sure, but nothing more than that before he died. I'll definitely go check it out. Aside from I think three episodes in total, the first season can be written off as a lost cause. It's only after the writer's strike that TNG started to find its footing with stories like "Q Who", "Contagion" and "The Measure of a Man". His loss of control brought us the wonderful Nicholas Meyer era films after all, but I think his legacy lived on through the ministrations of Rick Berman. From what I gathered, he's largely the reason why Voyager seemed to get the short end of the stick in almost every single field. In fact, I'd even go so far to say that once he and Brannon Braga became distracted with Enterprise, the show got a much-needed flood of energy with Enterprise itself getting the same once Manny Coto was brought onboard to stop the whole show from sinking.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 24, 2016 23:47:27 GMT
So, I've done some digging and according to IMDb, Nicholas Meyer's writing the series's pilot episode. I'm excited.
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Post by The Matt on May 18, 2016 21:57:43 GMT
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Post by icecreamdf on May 18, 2016 23:32:36 GMT
Is it January yet?
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 0:14:50 GMT
The new crew thing, even if it isn't an anthology show, is a smart move. I like the Teaser, the use of the original theme and the classic style logo tell me - as if the creative team weren't enough of a hint - this is going to be the Trek for us fans who may kinda like the Abrams-films but don't quite feel like it's "Trek" enough.
Can't wait for casting reveals.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 5:41:25 GMT
Well, if nothing else, the lawsuit can be entertaining. I'm afraid the dispute is more about the fact that the producer is using the supporters money to fund the construction of a movie studio which he intends to use for future profit making projects and is paying himself a salary from people's contributions, all on the back of the Star Trek name. They had to act to prevent people making a huge profit of that nature from their IP edit: not sure why my reply is showing as part of the quote, plus I've lost the part of the post I was trying to reply to. darn tapatalk!
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 6:00:54 GMT
@brians - It's a pity that they're so concerned about money that they're not going to let an independent project like Axanar fly. From what I've heard as a backer of the project that money was going into building a studio set to produce a full-length film to accompany the Prelude to Axanar piece they'd done already and that was what I was paying for. I was rather looking forward to the eventual results all things considered and the lawsuit itself has basically devolved down into whether CBS Entertainment own the Klingon language or not. It's gotten worse for Paramount in that:
In fact, it's so real that the friend-of-the-court brief used in the legal proceedings from the Language Creation Society is partially written using Klingonese phraseology. Yes, really. Paramount has decided to pick a fight, not just with unlicenced fan productions, but what is now considered a legitimate form of linguistic communication.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 10:40:03 GMT
@brians - It's a pity that they're so concerned about money that they're not going to let an independent project like Axanar fly. From what I've heard as a backer of the project that money was going into building a studio set to produce a full-length film to accompany the Prelude to Axanar piece they'd done already and that was what I was paying for. I was rather looking forward to the eventual results all things considered and the lawsuit itself has basically devolved down into whether CBS Entertainment own the Klingon language or not. It's gotten worse for Paramount in that: In fact, it's so real that the friend-of-the-court brief used in the legal proceedings from the Language Creation Society is partially written using Klingonese phraseology. Yes, really. Paramount has decided to pick a fight, not just with unlicenced fan productions, but what is now considered a legitimate form of linguistic communication. The problem is that he could use that studio to make other movies, and was taking a percentage of your backing as his salary. If he hadn't done those things I'm sure Paramount would have left him alone just as they have productions like Renegades. But he is profiting from Star Trek. And that is not allowed.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2016 11:58:06 GMT
@brians - It's a pity that they're so concerned about money that they're not going to let an independent project like Axanar fly. From what I've heard as a backer of the project that money was going into building a studio set to produce a full-length film to accompany the Prelude to Axanar piece they'd done already and that was what I was paying for. I was rather looking forward to the eventual results all things considered and the lawsuit itself has basically devolved down into whether CBS Entertainment own the Klingon language or not. It's gotten worse for Paramount in that: In fact, it's so real that the friend-of-the-court brief used in the legal proceedings from the Language Creation Society is partially written using Klingonese phraseology. Yes, really. Paramount has decided to pick a fight, not just with unlicenced fan productions, but what is now considered a legitimate form of linguistic communication. The problem is that he could use that studio to make other movies, and was taking a percentage of your backing as his salary. If he hadn't done those things I'm sure Paramount would have left him alone just as they have productions like Renegades. But he is profiting from Star Trek. And that is not allowed. Nope, but strangely enough that's not what the lawsuit is about. Besides, a contingency plan was proffered by someone involved in the lawsuits where Paramount and CBS could take a cut of the profits and have Axanar Productions operate as a subsidiary. That could potentially work out extremely well for everyone concerned. They've generated quite a lot of ill will already with this move, from what I've seen the community have really turned against them, so they may win the lawsuit, but they'll have lost their audience's confidence. That to me seems quite a lot more damaging.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 7:02:19 GMT
The problem is that he could use that studio to make other movies, and was taking a percentage of your backing as his salary. If he hadn't done those things I'm sure Paramount would have left him alone just as they have productions like Renegades. But he is profiting from Star Trek. And that is not allowed. Nope, but strangely enough that's not what the lawsuit is about. Besides, a contingency plan was proffered by someone involved in the lawsuits where Paramount and CBS could take a cut of the profits and have Axanar Productions operate as a subsidiary. That could potentially work out extremely well for everyone concerned. They've generated quite a lot of ill will already with this move, from what I've seen the community have really turned against them, so they may win the lawsuit, but they'll have lost their audience's confidence. That to me seems quite a lot more damaging. Actually I heard someone saying the lawsuit's being dropped, so maybe it will get made after all. I do hope so, even though I don't really approve of how the producer is behaving, the trailer looked awesome.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2016 7:50:16 GMT
Nope, but strangely enough that's not what the lawsuit is about. Besides, a contingency plan was proffered by someone involved in the lawsuits where Paramount and CBS could take a cut of the profits and have Axanar Productions operate as a subsidiary. That could potentially work out extremely well for everyone concerned. They've generated quite a lot of ill will already with this move, from what I've seen the community have really turned against them, so they may win the lawsuit, but they'll have lost their audience's confidence. That to me seems quite a lot more damaging. Actually I heard someone saying the lawsuit's being dropped, so maybe it will get made after all. I do hope so, even though I don't really approve of how the producer is behaving, the trailer looked awesome. That's good to hear, Prelude to Axanar was rather splendid and I don't think what looks to be a potentially good piece of storytelling should be stomped down because of infamous producers and legal scuffles. I've done a bit of research and the man does appear to be rather incautious and self-important, which is rather disheartening. That being said, I've always found it good to add several degrees of separation between a product and its creators. He may be the producer, but he's one man on a much, much larger project and I'd check it out for all the work that everyone else has put into it.
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Post by The Matt on May 21, 2016 14:30:39 GMT
Apparently JJ announced it would be dropped at the ST:Beyond fan event
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2016 16:03:42 GMT
Yes, by all accounts JJ and Justin Lin intervened. I'm kinda wondering if that's just PR spin to get more Trekkies on board with Lin, since I read a LOT of flak for him based on his previous action-driven work.
I've just picked up a trade paperback called Captain's Log and it's an anthology featuring Captain's stories from all over the Trek-lore. Sulu to Jellico. I didn't even know this was a thing but fun to know that anthology-Trek exists already since it seems thats what the show may well be.
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Post by The Matt on May 30, 2016 22:19:15 GMT
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2016 22:22:08 GMT
That's interesting. I've not read any of the Voyager novels since the show was around - anyone read her work?
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Post by icecreamdf on May 31, 2016 3:44:50 GMT
That's interesting. I've not read any of the Voyager novels since the show was around - anyone read her work? No. I read some of the Christie Golden ones, but they were so bad that I gave up on the Voyager novel series.
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2016 4:32:07 GMT
That's interesting. I've not read any of the Voyager novels since the show was around - anyone read her work? Yep, Kirsten Beyer's stuff tends to work quite a bit better than Golden's stuff primarily because it tries to stay true to the ethos of the series while not having its hands tied in terms of things like continuity and character development. It doesn't fall into the trap of becoming the Seven of Nine hollow action show and actually treats the Voyager crew as people with real virtues and weaknesses. Even if the prose occasionally beats you about the head and shoulders with things you probably already know. The only downside is that you have to start at Full Circle because everything is so closely linked now that leaping straight into it all is almost impossible without some degree of confusion. I tried starting off at The Eternal Tide and wound up finding out that it was the third part of an ongoing arc that required the previous two to know what exactly was going on.
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Post by The Matt on May 31, 2016 11:33:58 GMT
Not read a ST novel in a looooong time. Will have to rectify that soon.
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