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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 18, 2018 14:32:42 GMT
That will be like accidentally running someone over in a car: an unfortunate accident, not intentional, only slight consequences. How do you know that? Slight consequences? We do knot know what the repurcussions would be of interferring in any event big or small in the past either accidentally or on purpose! I can't imagine stepping on a butterfly or knocking some random person over would alter history that much really, unless the person you knocked over was an important historical figure.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 18, 2018 14:35:59 GMT
But what about random events? Accidently knocking someone over for example or even, as in A Sound of Thunder, stepping on a butterfly. The repurcussions of even the slightlest change are unknowable. That will be like accidentally running someone over in a car: an unfortunate accident, not intentional, only slight consequences. Google The Butterfly Effect (the concept, not the movie). The smallest of actions can have the greatest of consequences. An assassin wanting a snack and a driver getting lost led to World War I. Or to put it another way: 'You can't change history-not one line!'
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 18, 2018 14:45:16 GMT
That will be like accidentally running someone over in a car: an unfortunate accident, not intentional, only slight consequences. Google The Butterfly Effect (the concept, not the movie). The smallest of actions can have the greatest of consequences. An assassin wanting a snack and a driver getting lost led to World War I. Or to put it another way: 'You can't change history-not one line!' I still think that seems overly-dramatic. Stepping on a butterfly is just going to kill a butterfly. Works in film and TV but if I stepped on a butterfly in the past in real life I very much doubt it would prevent, say, World War 2.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 18, 2018 14:50:23 GMT
Google The Butterfly Effect (the concept, not the movie). The smallest of actions can have the greatest of consequences. An assassin wanting a snack and a driver getting lost led to World War I. Or to put it another way: 'You can't change history-not one line!' I still think that seems overly-dramatic. Stepping on a butterfly is just going to kill a butterfly. Works in film and TV but if I stepped on a butterfly in the past in real life I very much doubt it would prevent, say, World War 2. Think you're taking me a little too literally there. Suppose a time traveller visited a city about now and in their amazement knocked into someone, spilling their coffee on them. That person then goes home to change and thus doesn't meet someone who'd they'd later marry, who'd they'd later have children with. And boom, an entire family just got erased from history. Random hypothetical scenario I know, but then this whole discussion is based around a hypothetical scenario.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 18, 2018 14:52:42 GMT
I still think that seems overly-dramatic. Stepping on a butterfly is just going to kill a butterfly. Works in film and TV but if I stepped on a butterfly in the past in real life I very much doubt it would prevent, say, World War 2. Think you're taking me a little too literally there. Suppose a time traveller visited a city about now and in their amazement knocked into someone, spilling their coffee on them. That person then goes home to change and thus doesn't meet someone who'd they'd later marry, who'd they'd later have children with. And boom, an entire family just got erased from history. Random hypothetical scenario I know, but then this whole discussion is based around a hypothetical scenario. But surely that would just create an alternate timeline, and there'd still be another timeline where they exist?
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Post by sherlock on Feb 18, 2018 14:55:00 GMT
Think you're taking me a little too literally there. Suppose a time traveller visited a city about now and in their amazement knocked into someone, spilling their coffee on them. That person then goes home to change and thus doesn't meet someone who'd they'd later marry, who'd they'd later have children with. And boom, an entire family just got erased from history. Random hypothetical scenario I know, but then this whole discussion is based around a hypothetical scenario. But surely that would just create an alternate timeline, and there'd still be another timeline where they exist? The timeline where they don't exist just supplanted the timeline where they do, whether the supplanted timeline continues to exist, who knows? We're speculating about the potential effects of a technology that doesn't even theoretically exist at present
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 18, 2018 14:56:33 GMT
But surely that would just create an alternate timeline, and there'd still be another timeline where they exist? The timeline where they don't exist just supplanted the timeline where they do, whether the supplanted timeline continues to exist, who knows? We're speculating about the potential effects of a technology that doesn't even theoretically exist at present Unless this guy is right and the government are covering it up.
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Post by Ela on Feb 18, 2018 18:27:38 GMT
This is an amusing debate. And for a dose of reality, consider the source of the link in the OP.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 20:10:48 GMT
Think you're taking me a little too literally there. Suppose a time traveller visited a city about now and in their amazement knocked into someone, spilling their coffee on them. That person then goes home to change and thus doesn't meet someone who'd they'd later marry, who'd they'd later have children with. And boom, an entire family just got erased from history. Random hypothetical scenario I know, but then this whole discussion is based around a hypothetical scenario. But surely that would just create an alternate timeline, and there'd still be another timeline where they exist? Eh? Well if that is the case then surely any act done by a time traveller in the past would just create an alternate timeline so there would be no need for cameras or trackers. Basically we do not know what would happen if we went back in time, the very fact of our molecules existing in the wrong time could cause changes! But as said above imagine if I went back in time to Ulm in the mid 1870s & met Pauline Koch, had a quick chat & as a consequence she never met Hermann Einstein so therefore never gave birth to Albert Einstein.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 18, 2018 20:12:47 GMT
But surely that would just create an alternate timeline, and there'd still be another timeline where they exist? Eh? Well if that is the case then surely any act done by a time traveller in the past would just create an alternate timeline so there would be no need for cameras or trackers. Basically we do not know what would happen if we went back in time, the very fact of our molecules existing in the wrong time could cause changes! But as said above imagine if I went back in time to Ulm in the mid 1870s & met Pauline Koch, had a quick chat & as a consequence she never met Hermann Einstein so therefore never gave birth to Albert Einstein. Easy solution. Just take her to Hermann and tell them they must do their moves on each other.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 20:12:51 GMT
Google The Butterfly Effect (the concept, not the movie). The smallest of actions can have the greatest of consequences. An assassin wanting a snack and a driver getting lost led to World War I. Or to put it another way: 'You can't change history-not one line!' I still think that seems overly-dramatic. Stepping on a butterfly is just going to kill a butterfly. Works in film and TV but if I stepped on a butterfly in the past in real life I very much doubt it would prevent, say, World War 2. But the fact is we don't know, killing a butterfly millions of years ago which may have been part of the food chain of an animal & results in that animal dying could have a chain reaction consequences of which we do not know how important.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 20:18:53 GMT
Eh? Well if that is the case then surely any act done by a time traveller in the past would just create an alternate timeline so there would be no need for cameras or trackers. Basically we do not know what would happen if we went back in time, the very fact of our molecules existing in the wrong time could cause changes! But as said above imagine if I went back in time to Ulm in the mid 1870s & met Pauline Koch, had a quick chat & as a consequence she never met Hermann Einstein so therefore never gave birth to Albert Einstein. Easy solution. Just take her to Hermann and tell them they must do their moves on each other. Really? But if they have sex at a different time maybe a different sperm enters the egg & a different Albert Einstein is born. You see how complicated it is. But of course we are supposing here that the time traveller would know that he had bumped into Pauline Koch. He may not realise in fact I doub she/he would realise as we don't know all the antecedents of important people. & of course there are random people who may inadvertently have an impact on the history.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 18, 2018 20:20:44 GMT
Easy solution. Just take her to Hermann and tell them they must do their moves on each other. Really? But if they have sex at a different time maybe a different sperm enters the egg & a different Albert Einstein is born. You see how complicated it is. But of course we are supposing here that the time traveller would know that he had bumped into Pauline Koch. He may not realise in fact I doub she/he would realise as we don't know all the antecedents of important people. & of course there are random people who may inadvertently have an impact on the history. Manipulate Albert Einstein's life by popping in at various points to spark interest in science.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 20:23:39 GMT
Really? But if they have sex at a different time maybe a different sperm enters the egg & a different Albert Einstein is born. You see how complicated it is. But of course we are supposing here that the time traveller would know that he had bumped into Pauline Koch. He may not realise in fact I doub she/he would realise as we don't know all the antecedents of important people. & of course there are random people who may inadvertently have an impact on the history. Manipulate Albert Einstein's life by popping in at various points to spark interest in science. Seriously? How would that work? & what other damage would the time traveller be doing with repeated trips to correct mistakes. & as mentioned this is presupposing the time traveler knows the origin of his mistake, as again mentioned earlier if someone is erased from history by this method the present the time traveller returns to would have no knowledge of, in this instance Albert Einstein.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 18, 2018 20:24:44 GMT
Manipulate Albert Einstein's life by popping in at various points to spark interest in science. Seriously? How would that work? & what other damage would the time traveller be doing with repeated trips to correct mistakes. & as mentioned this is presupposing the time traveler knows the origin of his mistake, as again mentioned earlier if someone is erased from history by this method the present the time traveller returns to would have no knowledge of, in this instance Albert Einstein. It would be like Doctor Who: A Christmas Carol, only instead of Kazran you would be creating the Albert Einstein we all learn about at school.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 20:30:19 GMT
Seriously? How would that work? & what other damage would the time traveller be doing with repeated trips to correct mistakes. & as mentioned this is presupposing the time traveler knows the origin of his mistake, as again mentioned earlier if someone is erased from history by this method the present the time traveller returns to would have no knowledge of, in this instance Albert Einstein. It would be like Doctor Who: A Christmas Carol, only instead of Kazran you would be creating the Albert Einstein we all learn about at school. Not quite the same. There was no interuption of the birth of Kazran (& its a very oversimplfied view in that episode of messing with time.) For example the sperm might produce a girl rather than a boy. Would a girl in that time be even given the opportunity to study the sciences. & again you are supossing that when the time traveller returns to the present he is immediately aware of the absence of Einstein & that his actions in the past have caused this person to be erased from history. What if he had met lots of people in the past & didn't know which interaction caused it? Time travellers would spend most of their time trying to rectify mistakes in the past. Time travel is dangerous & should be banned!
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 18, 2018 20:32:30 GMT
It would be like Doctor Who: A Christmas Carol, only instead of Kazran you would be creating the Albert Einstein we all learn about at school. Not quite the same. There was no interuption of the birth of Kazran (& its a very oversimplfied view in that episode of messing with time.) For example the sperm might produce a girl rather than a boy. Would a girl in that time be even given the opportunity to study the sciences. & again you are supossing that when the time traveller returns to the present he is immediately aware of the absence of Einstein & that his actions in the past have caused this person to be erased from history. What if he had met lots of people in the past & didn't know which interaction caused it? Time travellers would spend most of their time trying to rectify mistakes in the past. Time travel is dangerous & should be banned! Tell them to name their girl Albert and dress her as a boy. Albert Einstein was always a woman who identified as a man, and nobody ever knew.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 20:36:56 GMT
Not quite the same. There was no interuption of the birth of Kazran (& its a very oversimplfied view in that episode of messing with time.) For example the sperm might produce a girl rather than a boy. Would a girl in that time be even given the opportunity to study the sciences. & again you are supossing that when the time traveller returns to the present he is immediately aware of the absence of Einstein & that his actions in the past have caused this person to be erased from history. What if he had met lots of people in the past & didn't know which interaction caused it? Time travellers would spend most of their time trying to rectify mistakes in the past. Time travel is dangerous & should be banned! Tell them to name their girl Albert and dress her as a boy. Albert Einstein was always a woman who identified as a man, and nobody ever knew. Ok, I give up. You are never going to understand. Once again you have ignored half my argument, & are now resorting to a 'comedic' response as you clearly have no intelligent counterargument. PS - Albert Einstein had 3 kids.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Feb 18, 2018 20:40:13 GMT
Tell them to name their girl Albert and dress her as a boy. Albert Einstein was always a woman who identified as a man, and nobody ever knew. Ok, I give up. You are never going to understand. Once again you have ignored half my argument, & are now resorting to a 'comedic' response as you clearly have no intelligent counterargument. PS - Albert Einstein had 3 kids. Damn. I just accidentally changed the timeline.
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Post by doomlord on Feb 18, 2018 20:45:32 GMT
How do you know that? Slight consequences? We do knot know what the repurcussions would be of interferring in any event big or small in the past either accidentally or on purpose! I can't imagine stepping on a butterfly or knocking some random person over would alter history that much really, unless the person you knocked over was an important historical figure. You're only thinking linear time here. Are you saying that accidently knocking some random person over wouldn't alter history because they're not an important historical figure? To perhaps cause said random figure that in time will never eventually meet their partner and bare a child that would go on to cure some very serious illness or a vaccine to a very aggresive new strain of virus that in turn will help your very own future lineage that could quite possibly cease to be. That is the Butterfly Effect.
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