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Post by jasonward on Mar 8, 2018 18:28:20 GMT
I still think that time travel is impossible for the reason that it's not already available to us. It all comes down to probability. If time travel was possible, someone would have come back to today (any day), if one person came back to today, then lots would have done so, the future (especially one with time machines) has a lot more people in it than the current time does, we should be thick with people from our future, they should be every where, out numbering us. With that huge number of time travellers jammed into every nook and cranny, one of them lost their time machine, or gave away the secret, meaning someone from their past got hold of it, meaning that they too could travel into the past, and they too could loose their time machine etc etc and so on and so on. So if the future has time travel, why don't we? Intervention rules perhaps. Disguises. Invisibility. Any number of reasons. None of those stack up. Rules would have to be obeyed by everyone for ever in every case. Disguises and invisibility wouldn't stop you from physically bumping into the people crowded into your room, and again it assumes that everyone for ever in every case does this, probability is as near 1 as make no difference that they won't. But look at the maths of this Dalek, today in the world there are 7.6 bn people. Let assume that 1) the population never increases again (which is very odd, but hey it greatly simplifies the maths) 2) The universe with humans in it continues to for 1 million more years (and that no one tries to save the human race or themselves by travelling back in time to live there, again, odd but simplifies the maths) 3) That only 10% of the future people ever get to time travel 4) That that 10% only choose to travel once per month into the past of the human race 5) Each person spends on average 1 day at their chosen day in history That's a total of 912,000,000,000,000 time journeys into the past of the human race. There have been approximately 73,000,000 days since the dawn of the human race. The means that right here, right now on earth today, in this moment there are 12,493,150 visiting us. And that number explodes massively if adjust any of the assumptions upwards (and all of those assumptions are on the low to extremely low side except human race life time, which is a reasonable guess, but could easily be double without needing any exceptional explanation). Where are these 12,493,150 people and their time machines?
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Post by randomjc on Mar 8, 2018 19:09:52 GMT
Intervention rules perhaps. Disguises. Invisibility. Any number of reasons. None of those stack up. Rules would have to be obeyed by everyone for ever in every case. Disguises and invisibility wouldn't stop you from physically bumping into the people crowded into your room, and again it assumes that everyone for ever in every case does this, probability is as near 1 as make no difference that they won't. But look at the maths of this Dalek, today in the world there are 7.6 bn people. Let assume that 1) the population never increases again (which is very odd, but hey it greatly simplifies the maths) 2) The universe with humans in it continues to for 1 million more years (and that no one tries to save the human race or themselves by travelling back in time to live there, again, odd but simplifies the maths) 3) That only 10% of the future people ever get to time travel 4) That that 10% only choose to travel once per month into the past of the human race 5) Each person spends on average 1 day at their chosen day in history That's a total of 912,000,000,000,000 time journeys into the past of the human race. There have been approximately 73,000,000 days since the dawn of the human race. The means that right here, right now on earth today, in this moment there are 12,493,150 visiting us. And that number explodes massively if adjust any of the assumptions upwards (and all of those assumptions are on the low to extremely low side except human race life time, which is a reasonable guess, but could easily be double without needing any exceptional explanation). Where are these 12,493,150 people and their time machines? This all presupposes that their would be an even distribution of travel across history, which of course wouldn't be true, especially with the supposition that they would only stay for a single day.
And to continue pulling #s out our butts, I'd those traveling into the past would be far less than 1%, since the energy that theoretically would be required to do such travel would be impossible to produce at levels that would allow even 10% of the world population to travel.
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Post by jasonward on Mar 8, 2018 19:22:44 GMT
None of those stack up. Rules would have to be obeyed by everyone for ever in every case. Disguises and invisibility wouldn't stop you from physically bumping into the people crowded into your room, and again it assumes that everyone for ever in every case does this, probability is as near 1 as make no difference that they won't. But look at the maths of this Dalek, today in the world there are 7.6 bn people. Let assume that 1) the population never increases again (which is very odd, but hey it greatly simplifies the maths) 2) The universe with humans in it continues to for 1 million more years (and that no one tries to save the human race or themselves by travelling back in time to live there, again, odd but simplifies the maths) 3) That only 10% of the future people ever get to time travel 4) That that 10% only choose to travel once per month into the past of the human race 5) Each person spends on average 1 day at their chosen day in history That's a total of 912,000,000,000,000 time journeys into the past of the human race. There have been approximately 73,000,000 days since the dawn of the human race. The means that right here, right now on earth today, in this moment there are 12,493,150 visiting us. And that number explodes massively if adjust any of the assumptions upwards (and all of those assumptions are on the low to extremely low side except human race life time, which is a reasonable guess, but could easily be double without needing any exceptional explanation). Where are these 12,493,150 people and their time machines? This all presupposes that their would be an even distribution of travel across history, which of course wouldn't be true, especially with the supposition that they would only stay for a single day.
And to continue pulling #s out our butts, I'd those traveling into the past would be far less than 1%, since the energy that theoretically would be required to do such travel would be impossible to produce at levels that would allow even 10% of the world population to travel.
I agree that the distribution wouldn't be even, some days would be far more crowded than others, but begs the question even more, where are all these visitors on the day JFK got shot? I also agree that the energy requirements have not been taken account of, but my reply was in reply to the assertion that "time travel is common place in 2030" which seems to imply that's its widely available to all at minimal cost. However time travel is cut, whatever mechanism proposed for it, the fact that we don't all know/see people from the future on a frequent basis means to me that it just never happens.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 19:26:14 GMT
This all presupposes that their would be an even distribution of travel across history, which of course wouldn't be true, especially with the supposition that they would only stay for a single day.
And to continue pulling #s out our butts, I'd those traveling into the past would be far less than 1%, since the energy that theoretically would be required to do such travel would be impossible to produce at levels that would allow even 10% of the world population to travel.
I agree that the distribution wouldn't be even, some days would be far more crowded than others, but begs the question even more, where are all these visitors on the day JFK got shot? Everyone in the crowd at JFK assasination is a time traveller! Just like the short story Let's Go to Golgotha!
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 8, 2018 19:33:16 GMT
Rules would have to be obeyed by everyone for ever in every case. There's pictures out there that look like people with mobile phones in the past. They could be rule-breakers. What about when you have that strange feeling like somebody's watching you, or when you feel a large bump on your bed as if someone's jumped onto it whilst you're sleeping, but you wake up and there's nobody there? Or the common 'somebody/something under the bed' superstition kids have? In their teleportation beds.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 20:18:15 GMT
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Post by randomjc on Mar 8, 2018 20:22:08 GMT
This is all without going into the theories of parallel worlds, that you can't actually travel in time, but go sideways into different worlds.
And of course, Sern was right all along.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 20:27:48 GMT
Personally i dont believe it exists, but maybe the reason time travellers doesen’t exist yet is because we havent invented it yet. We can’t see time travelers because we ourselfs havent time traveled. If we ever hypothetically do find a means to time travel then only then will we time travel and change the past by being there and then remember the timetravelling timeline.... or something. I always find ithe idea of time travel so confusing and in turn think its unrealistic to say the least. But hey, just imagine...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 20:29:13 GMT
Personally i dont believe it exists, but maybe the reason time travellers doesen’t exist yet is because we havent invented it yet. We can’t see time travelers because we ourselfs havent time traveled. If we ever hypothetically do find a means to time travel then only then will we time travel and change the past by being there and then remember the timetravelling timeline.... or something. I always find ithe idea of time travel so confusing and in turn think its unrealistic to say the least. But hey, just imagine... Aliens & UFOs are time travellers. Humans from so far in the future they look very different. Another mystery solved by johnhurtdoctor.
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Post by randomjc on Mar 8, 2018 20:30:11 GMT
This is all without going into the theories of parallel worlds, that you can't actually travel in time, but go sideways into different worlds. And of course, Sern was right all along. Sam? Sern.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 8, 2018 20:35:02 GMT
Personally i dont believe it exists, but maybe the reason time travellers doesen’t exist yet is because we havent invented it yet. We can’t see time travelers because we ourselfs havent time traveled. If we ever hypothetically do find a means to time travel then only then will we time travel and change the past by being there and then remember the timetravelling timeline.... or something. I always find ithe idea of time travel so confusing and in turn think its unrealistic to say the least. But hey, just imagine... Makes sense to me. Maybe some of us may have even met time travellers, but they have ways of forcing us to forget? I still have a strange memory of an eccentric woman I'd never met in my life waving at me as I left the Stephen Joseph Theatre a few years ago...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 20:37:07 GMT
Personally i dont believe it exists, but maybe the reason time travellers doesen’t exist yet is because we havent invented it yet. We can’t see time travelers because we ourselfs havent time traveled. If we ever hypothetically do find a means to time travel then only then will we time travel and change the past by being there and then remember the timetravelling timeline.... or something. I always find ithe idea of time travel so confusing and in turn think its unrealistic to say the least. But hey, just imagine... Makes sense to me. Maybe some of us may have even met time travellers, but they have ways of forcing us to forget? I still have a strange memory of an eccentric woman I'd never met in my life waving at me as I left the Stephen Joseph Theatre a few years ago... I doubt she was from the future lol
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Post by randomjc on Mar 8, 2018 20:38:37 GMT
Makes sense to me. Maybe some of us may have even met time travellers, but they have ways of forcing us to forget? I still have a strange memory of an eccentric woman I'd never met in my life waving at me as I left the Stephen Joseph Theatre a few years ago... I doubt she was from the future lol Maybe she was from the past?
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 8, 2018 20:40:42 GMT
Makes sense to me. Maybe some of us may have even met time travellers, but they have ways of forcing us to forget? I still have a strange memory of an eccentric woman I'd never met in my life waving at me as I left the Stephen Joseph Theatre a few years ago... I doubt she was from the future lol But how come she seemed to know me, and why was she dressed in an eccentric style?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 20:43:56 GMT
Because she was a time traveller, naturally.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2018 20:46:05 GMT
I doubt she was from the future lol But how come she seemed to know me, and why was she dressed in an eccentric style? Err, your conclusion is she is a time traveller?!? lol Mental health issues or mistaken identity would be the most obvious & logical reason not that she was a time traveller!
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Post by jasonward on Mar 9, 2018 3:08:25 GMT
That theory makes no sense to me. Well it does and it doesn't, yes, time as you get closer to the centre of a blackhole flows slower than time further away, indeed at the centre of a black hole time stops all together, it's part of the problem physicists have with blackholes, they exist, but at the point of singularity ceased to exist in any way that we can relate to. OK, so he says (the scientist in the article), use a wormhole that transports you from a location outside of the blackhole to a location much closer to the centre where time is flowing slower so because of wormhole magic you are in effect passing backwards in time. Yes... OK, I can see that... but I see two fundamental problems with attempting to leave the black hole. Firstly, to get the kind of time dilation he's talking about, you will have got very close to the event horizon, the very definition of event horizon is, the point beyond which you cannot return. Or somewhat more scientifically, light is said to flow at a speed known as C (as in MC 2), C is not actually the speed of light, it's the maximum speed achievable in the universe, the event horizon is the point at which to break free of the black holes gravity well you would need to travel faster than C, but you can't. But even if you come close to an event horizon, the power needed to move away from it increases exponentially the closer you are, in order to come back into the younger universe your going to have to take an almost unimaginable amount of energy with you, and like sending rockets into space, you need more energy to move the energy (in a earth bound rocket more fuel is spent propelling the as yet unspent fuel into space than is spent propelling the actual payload). Secondly, there's the problem of relative time. Once I arrive at my dropping off point from the black hole, I am experiencing time relative the rest of the universe very slowly, from an observers well outside the range of the black hole watching me, it will probably take me many millions of years to leave, by the time I actually get far enough away from the blackhole the entire universe may have evaporated into nothingness around me. To me this sounds pretty like many time travel ideas, they work so long as you have an infinite supply of energy, and the laws of physics say a very hard and fast no on that front. If time travel is possible in anyway at all, then I would think that blackholes would offer our best chance of finding out, but not because of what we know about them currently, but because of what we don't know about them, inside a black hole the laws of physics break down, that offers a glimmer of hope that perhaps if we ever get to understand how physics work inside a blackhole we might get to do utterly amazing and probably currently unimaginable things.
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Post by Timelord007 on Mar 9, 2018 7:49:56 GMT
Blimey parallel universes of multiple mes doesn't bare thinking about.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Mar 9, 2018 10:24:49 GMT
Blimey parallel universes of multiple mes doesn't bare thinking about. There might be a parallel universe where you utter the immortal phrase, "The Last Jedi was brilliant."
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Mar 9, 2018 10:48:39 GMT
But how come she seemed to know me, and why was she dressed in an eccentric style? Err, your conclusion is she is a time traveller?!? lol Mental health issues or mistaken identity would be the most obvious & logical reason not that she was a time traveller! Explain the eccentric dressing though.
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