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Post by sherlock on Feb 22, 2020 23:28:18 GMT
Gallifrey: Time War Volume 3 has been added as a new act between the main story of Only the Good and the Eighth Doctor: Time War series. It’s a bit arbitrary, but didn’t want to breakup Only the Good further by putting this before it and it’s definitely still in the Eighth Doctor half of the War, so likely prior to his series.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 26, 2020 17:38:34 GMT
Added RTD’s new short story as an epilogue. Does it really fit? No. Does that matter? Not a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 1:51:21 GMT
Added RTD’s new short story as an epilogue. Does it really fit? No. Does that matter? Not a bit. Long-time pet theory: I think the War Doctor didn't exist in-universe until the Eleventh Doctor went back into his own history in The Name of the Doctor. Up until that point, the Eighth Doctor had regenerated into the Ninth, but with the creation of this entirely new incarnation, the whole pattern of history was altered. Maybe RTD's epilogue was true before Day of the Doctor became real. We've had regenerations overturned before. The Sixth Doctor has regenerated at least three different times ( Spiral Scratch, The Brink of Death, Time's Champion) and Interference altered the Third Doctor's place of death from Metabelis III to Dust. e.g. The Monster of Peladon -> The Planet of the Spiders / Interference -> Robot ->> The Ancestor Cell The Time War -> Rose ->> The Name of the Doctor -<-> ( The Time War / The Night of the Doctor ->> Rose) -->> The Day of the DoctorAh, time travel.
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Post by xlozdob on Mar 28, 2020 12:00:52 GMT
Personally, I read it as the memory the Moment put into the War Doctor's mind. That is, what Nine remembers happened after he woke up from the regeneration. That works quite well for me. I also think both Time Wars (against the Enemy and against the Daleks) happened "at the same time", but the start of the New Series cemented the end we saw en TDoTD, as the Doctors saved that Gallifrey and activated the Moment.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Mar 28, 2020 17:13:03 GMT
The RTD story obviously chronicles the Doctor's false memory of having destroyed Gallifrey (since he can't remember meeting his other selves).I don't think the Doctor is actually described, so it could just be the War Doctor after all.
OK, the cover's a bit of a pickle, but I have a vague idea there were novelisations published back in the day with Tom Baker on the cover despite it being the first Doctor in the story - and what about the UNIT spacecraft on the US edition of "Day of the Daleks"? Covers, like desserts, aren't always right.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 23:49:26 GMT
Personally, I read it as the memory the Moment put into the War Doctor's mind. That is, what Nine remembers happened after he woke up from the regeneration. That works quite well for me. I also think both Time Wars (against the Enemy and against the Daleks) happened "at the same time", but the start of the New Series cemented the end we saw en TDoTD, as the Doctors saved that Gallifrey and activated the Moment. Oh! That's got me thinking. I'm not sure we have a complete list of the time wars that the Gallifreyans have fought in over the millennia. In summary: The Black Sun War- The Black Sun War marked the "first" of such assaults attempting to subvert a Gallifreyan historical nexus point. In this case, the Order of the Black Sun dispatched an agent to sabotage Rassilon and Omega's stellar fosterage of Qqaba, the power source for their initial time travel experiments. The agent, Fenris, did not suceed and was banished to the proto-vortex. The Time Lords later discovered that this first strike was in response to a Gallifrey-aligned parahuman killing a Black Sun delegate at a conference. What neither side was aware of at the time, the murderer was psy-snared by the Sontaran delegate, seeking to exploit the ensuing chaos to secure significant uranium rights for their war against the Rutans. By the time that the Doctor had become a myth, the Time Lords (or Rassilon, at least) and the Black Sun had reconciled well enough for a member of their order to be seated among the High Evolutionaries. The Eternal War, or the Vampire Wars- It's unclear how this conflict started as it was never recorded in the Matrix. All that's known for certain is that the Time Lords created a dimensional rip that allowed a lifeforce inimicable to N-Space into their universe. This entity or group of entities, known as the Yssgaroth, corrupted everything they touched with their blight. The resulting infection creating the Great Vampire and many thralls like him. The death toll was counted in the billions with entire solar systems annihilated in the conflict, but the Time Lords once again overcame their enemy and shattered their fighting force. Nevertheless, the shock of that war continues to resonate even in the Doctor's time. Wars of Supremacy- There are many comparatively smaller conflicts with the Racnoss, the Charon and so on, which were essentially a product of the Gallifreyan Empire asserting its dominance over other time-active species. Think of them as the Napoleonic Wars of this particular section of history. Yesterday's enemy might be tomorrow's friend and vice versa. One of the longest lasting consequences of these conflicts is that Time Lord newborns are encoded with a form of "genetic conscription". If they sense an ancient species from this era, they are instinctively compelled to destroy it. The Millennium Wars- A series of conflicts in the Fifth Doctor's time that were begun with Melanicus's hijack of the Event Synthesiser and disruption of the causal nexus. Think of Logopolis as a causal famine, this is the other side of the coin. Total anarchy in the laws of Time. Rassilon summoned the Doctor and his new companion, Sir Justin, to the Matrix on Gallifrey to deal the final blow to Melanicus while the Time Lords and the Lords of Althrace (a kindred temporal species, so to speak) acted as damage control. The sacrifice of Justin ensured that the Event Synthesiser was returned to its original operator, the Prime Mover. The War in Heaven
- The Time Lords' war with an implacable, unknown Enemy that began on Drornid. Their opponent is described at one point as a form of hostile history, so although this is speculation, it's entirely possible that this conflict is the product of causal inertia. The result of all the changes that time travel has wrought over the timestreams. Despite it's conclusion before it began, the War continued for a great deal of time following its annulment and is well-documented to that effect. It may be the strongest recorded conflict mentioned thus far and covers multiple universes. The Osirian War- It's important to note that Time Lord and Osirian history flow in direct opposition to one another. What lies in the distant past for one, is the distant future for the other. This conflict, fought during the War in Heaven, emerged as a result of rival claims to the inheritance of the Osirian throne between Sutekh and Horus. While Gallifrey only played a peripheral role in the Court's proceedings, a direct result of this conflict was the loss of the War King and a vampiric invasion of the Homeworld by the Mal'akh. It's unclear whether or not they succeeded in repelling the invasion, though it is also unclear at this point which world can be regarded as Gallifrey Original. The Last Great Time War- The "most recent" of the conflicts, a confrontation between a time-active Dalek Empire and a weakened Gallifrey. The effects of which we are continuing to experience at the time of writing.
All of which could have happened/are happening/will happen at the same time as one another. (Somewhere deep in the Capitol, a chronohistorian sneezed.)
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Post by xlozdob on Mar 29, 2020 15:52:36 GMT
Personally, I read it as the memory the Moment put into the War Doctor's mind. That is, what Nine remembers happened after he woke up from the regeneration. That works quite well for me. I also think both Time Wars (against the Enemy and against the Daleks) happened "at the same time", but the start of the New Series cemented the end we saw en TDoTD, as the Doctors saved that Gallifrey and activated the Moment. Oh! That's got me thinking. I'm not sure we have a complete list of the time wars that the Gallifreyans have fought in over the millennia. In summary: [...]
All of which could have happened/are happening/will happen at the same time as one another. (Somewhere deep in the Capitol, a chronohistorian sneezed.)Well, you got me thinking in turn. First of all, are the Cloister Wars a Time War? They could fit into the Supremacy Wars quite well, from the little we know. Since the Master has said they cared for the Doctor since the Cloister Wars, we could assume they might have been the last conflicts of the Supremacy Wars. Which brings me to - everything from the Black Sun to the Supremacy/Cloister Wars could have been like Gallifrey's Middle Ages, a "time" of conquest and conflict, following their own Civil War (Time Lords vs the Pythia) that might have started as Rassilon and Omega completed their experiments on time travel and Tecteun discovered regeneration (with Tecteun's wife "Patience" having to escape ). After the affirmation of Time Lord rule on Gallifrey, with Tecteun as Lord President, the Black Sun War and the Vampire Wars break out, as they try to establish themselves as one of the Temporal Powers. But then, after those, they (Rassilon, now as ruler himself) see that temporal conflicts like that are bound to happen, so they decide to attack first and thus the Wars of Supremacy start. The Division is created as a sort of KGB agency for these wars (which in some cases are Napoleonic-Wars-like, in others more like the Cold War) and the Foundling starts working for them. At some point the Founding Fathers die, Rassilon's tomb is built in the Death Zone (which he created for his entertainment using prisoners of war), and other presidents continue to rule Gallifrey, maintaining Rassilon's legacy, perhaps with no further conflicts, cause the Division is keeping an eye on the possible threats, but then the Doctor, after her stint as a fugitive, returns and overthrows the Division, for which she is sentenced to be reloomed. With the Division out of sight, the antagonistic factions take the chance to attack Gallifrey, thus the Cloister Wars, which took place when the Doctor was a kid, and perhaps hadn't even joined the Academy (maybe even concurrent with the scene in the barn from Listen). As the Cloister Wars end, the Time Lords decide to take a step back and maintain a non-intervention policy, become observers, rather than conquerors. But, unbeknown to the High Council, the remnants of the Division create the CIA, to keep a more... proactive eye on potential threats. Maybe. Who knows? Works for me lol. We need a Hyrule Historia type of compendium, like TLoZ has, but for Gallifrey. Perhaps it's a job for the Divergent Wordsmiths...
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Post by Jeedai on Mar 29, 2020 17:05:37 GMT
Added RTD’s new short story as an epilogue. Does it really fit? No. Does that matter? Not a bit. It works for me as a lie that Nine, Ten, and Eleven told themselves during the centuries of disavowing War's existence. A lie they had prepared in advance, one they could almost but not quite convince themselves of, in case they had to uphold the larger lie about themselves against mental intrusion. The lie Mr Clever fell for while being stalemated by that missing percent of a percent of Eleven's mind.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 30, 2020 6:16:56 GMT
Oh! That's got me thinking. I'm not sure we have a complete list of the time wars that the Gallifreyans have fought in over the millennia. In summary: [...]
All of which could have happened/are happening/will happen at the same time as one another. (Somewhere deep in the Capitol, a chronohistorian sneezed.)Well, you got me thinking in turn. First of all, are the Cloister Wars a Time War? They could fit into the Supremacy Wars quite well, from the little we know. Since the Master has said they cared for the Doctor since the Cloister Wars, we could assume they might have been the last conflicts of the Supremacy Wars. Which brings me to - everything from the Black Sun to the Supremacy/Cloister Wars could have been like Gallifrey's Middle Ages, a "time" of conquest and conflict, following their own Civil War (Time Lords vs the Pythia) that might have started as Rassilon and Omega completed their experiments on time travel and Tecteun discovered regeneration (with Tecteun's wife "Patience" having to escape ). After the affirmation of Time Lord rule on Gallifrey, with Tecteun as Lord President, the Black Sun War and the Vampire Wars break out, as they try to establish themselves as one of the Temporal Powers. But then, after those, they (Rassilon, now as ruler himself) see that temporal conflicts like that are bound to happen, so they decide to attack first and thus the Wars of Supremacy start. The Division is created as a sort of KGB agency for these wars (which in some cases are Napoleonic-Wars-like, in others more like the Cold War) and the Foundling starts working for them. At some point the Founding Fathers die, Rassilon's tomb is built in the Death Zone (which he created for his entertainment using prisoners of war), and other presidents continue to rule Gallifrey, maintaining Rassilon's legacy, perhaps with no further conflicts, cause the Division is keeping an eye on the possible threats, but then the Doctor, after her stint as a fugitive, returns and overthrows the Division, for which she is sentenced to be reloomed. With the Division out of sight, the antagonistic factions take the chance to attack Gallifrey, thus the Cloister Wars, which took place when the Doctor was a kid, and perhaps hadn't even joined the Academy (maybe even concurrent with the scene in the barn from Listen). As the Cloister Wars end, the Time Lords decide to take a step back and maintain a non-intervention policy, become observers, rather than conquerors. But, unbeknown to the High Council, the remnants of the Division create the CIA, to keep a more... proactive eye on potential threats. Maybe. Who knows? Works for me lol. We need a Hyrule Historia type of compendium, like TLoZ has, but for Gallifrey. Perhaps it's a job for the Divergent Wordsmiths... *taps desk* I've had a thought. Who here has a Google Docs account? Over the next little while, I can set up a shared document (or documents, for clarity) of Gallifreyan History. Something we can all scribble over in our spare time. Authors interested can send me a PM and I'll send through the link. A sort of "open source" initiative. What do we reckon, does the idea have legs?
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Post by sherlock on Mar 30, 2020 9:17:43 GMT
Well, you got me thinking in turn. First of all, are the Cloister Wars a Time War? They could fit into the Supremacy Wars quite well, from the little we know. Since the Master has said they cared for the Doctor since the Cloister Wars, we could assume they might have been the last conflicts of the Supremacy Wars. Which brings me to - everything from the Black Sun to the Supremacy/Cloister Wars could have been like Gallifrey's Middle Ages, a "time" of conquest and conflict, following their own Civil War (Time Lords vs the Pythia) that might have started as Rassilon and Omega completed their experiments on time travel and Tecteun discovered regeneration (with Tecteun's wife "Patience" having to escape ). After the affirmation of Time Lord rule on Gallifrey, with Tecteun as Lord President, the Black Sun War and the Vampire Wars break out, as they try to establish themselves as one of the Temporal Powers. But then, after those, they (Rassilon, now as ruler himself) see that temporal conflicts like that are bound to happen, so they decide to attack first and thus the Wars of Supremacy start. The Division is created as a sort of KGB agency for these wars (which in some cases are Napoleonic-Wars-like, in others more like the Cold War) and the Foundling starts working for them. At some point the Founding Fathers die, Rassilon's tomb is built in the Death Zone (which he created for his entertainment using prisoners of war), and other presidents continue to rule Gallifrey, maintaining Rassilon's legacy, perhaps with no further conflicts, cause the Division is keeping an eye on the possible threats, but then the Doctor, after her stint as a fugitive, returns and overthrows the Division, for which she is sentenced to be reloomed. With the Division out of sight, the antagonistic factions take the chance to attack Gallifrey, thus the Cloister Wars, which took place when the Doctor was a kid, and perhaps hadn't even joined the Academy (maybe even concurrent with the scene in the barn from Listen). As the Cloister Wars end, the Time Lords decide to take a step back and maintain a non-intervention policy, become observers, rather than conquerors. But, unbeknown to the High Council, the remnants of the Division create the CIA, to keep a more... proactive eye on potential threats. Maybe. Who knows? Works for me lol. We need a Hyrule Historia type of compendium, like TLoZ has, but for Gallifrey. Perhaps it's a job for the Divergent Wordsmiths... *taps desk* I've had a thought. Who here has a Google Docs account? Over the next little while, I can set up a shared document (or documents, for clarity) of Gallifreyan History. Something we can all scribble over in our spare time. Authors interested can send me a PM and I'll send through the link. A sort of "open source" initiative. What do we reckon, does the idea have legs? Ooh yes.
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Post by xlozdob on Mar 30, 2020 10:43:26 GMT
Well, you got me thinking in turn. First of all, are the Cloister Wars a Time War? They could fit into the Supremacy Wars quite well, from the little we know. Since the Master has said they cared for the Doctor since the Cloister Wars, we could assume they might have been the last conflicts of the Supremacy Wars. Which brings me to - everything from the Black Sun to the Supremacy/Cloister Wars could have been like Gallifrey's Middle Ages, a "time" of conquest and conflict, following their own Civil War (Time Lords vs the Pythia) that might have started as Rassilon and Omega completed their experiments on time travel and Tecteun discovered regeneration (with Tecteun's wife "Patience" having to escape ). After the affirmation of Time Lord rule on Gallifrey, with Tecteun as Lord President, the Black Sun War and the Vampire Wars break out, as they try to establish themselves as one of the Temporal Powers. But then, after those, they (Rassilon, now as ruler himself) see that temporal conflicts like that are bound to happen, so they decide to attack first and thus the Wars of Supremacy start. The Division is created as a sort of KGB agency for these wars (which in some cases are Napoleonic-Wars-like, in others more like the Cold War) and the Foundling starts working for them. At some point the Founding Fathers die, Rassilon's tomb is built in the Death Zone (which he created for his entertainment using prisoners of war), and other presidents continue to rule Gallifrey, maintaining Rassilon's legacy, perhaps with no further conflicts, cause the Division is keeping an eye on the possible threats, but then the Doctor, after her stint as a fugitive, returns and overthrows the Division, for which she is sentenced to be reloomed. With the Division out of sight, the antagonistic factions take the chance to attack Gallifrey, thus the Cloister Wars, which took place when the Doctor was a kid, and perhaps hadn't even joined the Academy (maybe even concurrent with the scene in the barn from Listen). As the Cloister Wars end, the Time Lords decide to take a step back and maintain a non-intervention policy, become observers, rather than conquerors. But, unbeknown to the High Council, the remnants of the Division create the CIA, to keep a more... proactive eye on potential threats. Maybe. Who knows? Works for me lol. We need a Hyrule Historia type of compendium, like TLoZ has, but for Gallifrey. Perhaps it's a job for the Divergent Wordsmiths... *taps desk* I've had a thought. Who here has a Google Docs account? Over the next little while, I can set up a shared document (or documents, for clarity) of Gallifreyan History. Something we can all scribble over in our spare time. Authors interested can send me a PM and I'll send through the link. A sort of "open source" initiative. What do we reckon, does the idea have legs? I'm in!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 31, 2020 1:08:52 GMT
*dusts off hands* And, it's all set up. There's a new thread here to catch people's eye and, yeah, PM me with an expression of interest and I'll send you through the link.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 7, 2020 15:36:44 GMT
notthebigfinishforum.freeforums.net/post/241873So this post by Dorney in lost stories thread clarifies the intent is that Starship of Theseus is the Doctor’s first encounter with the War, but in such a way it becomes not his first encounter (that’s a time war for you). Difficult to truly reflect this in a listening order, so gonna stick with the compromise I’ve got at the moment where it’s the opener to it’s own act and serves as a mid-way glimpse at what the Doctor’s life would have been if not for the War.
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 10, 2020 2:27:20 GMT
Added RTD’s new short story as an epilogue. Does it really fit? No. Does that matter? Not a bit. Long-time pet theory: I think the War Doctor didn't exist in-universe until the Eleventh Doctor went back into his own history in The Name of the Doctor. Up until that point, the Eighth Doctor had regenerated into the Ninth, but with the creation of this entirely new incarnation, the whole pattern of history was altered. Maybe RTD's epilogue was true before Day of the Doctor became real. We've had regenerations overturned before. The Sixth Doctor has regenerated at least three different times ( Spiral Scratch, The Brink of Death, Time's Champion) and Interference altered the Third Doctor's place of death from Metabelis III to Dust. e.g. The Monster of Peladon -> The Planet of the Spiders / Interference -> Robot ->> The Ancestor Cell The Time War -> Rose ->> The Name of the Doctor -<-> ( The Time War / The Night of the Doctor ->> Rose) -->> The Day of the DoctorAh, time travel.Honestly yeah i agree The Next Doctor TV Episode basically confirms that The War Doctor didnt exist in the original timeline (or at that point) and either was created by shifting the timelines (either with The Pandorica Opens/Big Bang or in Name of The Doctor)
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 10, 2020 2:32:17 GMT
My Take on the chronology of The Time War is that there were two Timelines The First Timeline or Original Time War Chronology and The War Doctor Timeline
Timeline #1 Original Timeline has it with 8 Choosing to Fight in The Time War having chosen that decision at the end of Museum Peace, First Year of The Time War Davros’s ship is destroyed by The Nightmare Child- 8 tries to save him but fails Gallifrey Time War 1-3 Events are feature 8 fighting in the time war however even with his help they choose to Resurrect The Master (Third Cycle) thus still continuing War Masters Timeline largely unchanged 8 still tries to stop his insane plan and has his memories wiped
The Fate of Bliss is unsure potentially she joins The 8th Doctor and helps him fight in the time war or convinces him to help where he can (possibly both options though the time lords know he is willing to fight never the less they stabilise the Valeyard Doctor and use him as a war asset
Cass from Night of The Doctor is killed (or is spared depending if you believe the theory the sisterhood of Karn orchestrated 8’s Regeneration)
The 8th Doctor goes through the audio adventures The War Doctor goes through but is aged on multiple occasions both with Age Progression and Age Regression (in the end he looks like how he was during The futher adventures of lucie miller with the long hair) , Leela joins him as a companion but either is killed or is left somewhere by 8 to protect her
Events of Engines of War happen, with 8 and he gains a new companion who dies but gives him The Restoration and restarts his regeneration cycle at the end of the war . He regenerates into the 9th Doctor.
Evidence of this timeline occurs with The Next Doctor as The Genesis Ark contains Time War Daleks that had info stamps which got stolen by the Cybermen during the events of Army of Ghost/Doomsday.
The Info stamps have no images of The War Doctor but only The First 10 Doctots (images of 9 could have been transmitted from either he encountered the Dalek of Henry Van Statten or Gamestation) and 10 from the events of Doomsday. The War Doctor couldn't exist in this timeline otherwise he would be in it (they couldn't have been hidden or tamperered with as they were sealed in the void where the doctor or any timelines could have rewritten it).
This timeline also explains the plothole from The Parting of the ways with 9 managing to save Rose from the effects of the time vortex while he had to regenerate.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2020 3:40:51 GMT
Long-time pet theory: I think the War Doctor didn't exist in-universe until the Eleventh Doctor went back into his own history in The Name of the Doctor. Up until that point, the Eighth Doctor had regenerated into the Ninth, but with the creation of this entirely new incarnation, the whole pattern of history was altered. Maybe RTD's epilogue was true before Day of the Doctor became real. We've had regenerations overturned before. The Sixth Doctor has regenerated at least three different times ( Spiral Scratch, The Brink of Death, Time's Champion) and Interference altered the Third Doctor's place of death from Metabelis III to Dust. e.g. The Monster of Peladon -> The Planet of the Spiders / Interference -> Robot ->> The Ancestor Cell The Time War -> Rose ->> The Name of the Doctor -<-> ( The Time War / The Night of the Doctor ->> Rose) -->> The Day of the DoctorAh, time travel. Honestly yeah i agree The Next Doctor TV Episode basically confirms that The War Doctor didnt exist in the original timeline (or at that point) and either was created by shifting the timelines (either with The Pandorica Opens/Big Bang or in Name of The Doctor) Yeah. I reckon that he was created by the Eleventh Doctor while he was off-screen in The Name of the Doctor. He levered open his own timeline, mending all those little alterations made by the Great Intelligence, and slotted that new incarnation in. He didn't exist until he did. Whether he was created deliberately or accidentally, I'm not sure. It might have been one of those circumstances where the Intelligence's changes to the Eighth Doctor were so far reaching, that the only way of preserving the timeline was to put war in as a splint between Eight and Nine.
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 10, 2020 8:12:30 GMT
Honestly yeah i agree The Next Doctor TV Episode basically confirms that The War Doctor didnt exist in the original timeline (or at that point) and either was created by shifting the timelines (either with The Pandorica Opens/Big Bang or in Name of The Doctor) Yeah. I reckon that he was created by the Eleventh Doctor while he was off-screen in The Name of the Doctor. He levered open his own timeline, mending all those little alterations made by the Great Intelligence, and slotted that new incarnation in. He didn't exist until he did. Whether he was created deliberately or accidentally, I'm not sure. It might have been one of those circumstances where the Intelligence's changes to the Eighth Doctor were so far reaching, that the only way of preserving the timeline was to put war in as a splint between Eight and Nine. I don't tend to worry about the War Doctor and how he fits in, I just know that I think he's a brilliant creation and I lap up any stories with him, but I like the idea of this. It's always slightly baffled me that the Doctor's fear behind the door in The God Complex ended up being the crack in time and not the War Doctor. The above suggestion resolves that.
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Post by theillusiveman on Apr 10, 2020 9:16:39 GMT
Yeah. I reckon that he was created by the Eleventh Doctor while he was off-screen in The Name of the Doctor. He levered open his own timeline, mending all those little alterations made by the Great Intelligence, and slotted that new incarnation in. He didn't exist until he did. Whether he was created deliberately or accidentally, I'm not sure. It might have been one of those circumstances where the Intelligence's changes to the Eighth Doctor were so far reaching, that the only way of preserving the timeline was to put war in as a splint between Eight and Nine. I don't tend to worry about the War Doctor and how he fits in, I just know that I think he's a brilliant creation and I lap up any stories with him, but I like the idea of this. It's always slightly baffled me that the Doctor's fear behind the door in The God Complex ended up being the crack in time and not the War Doctor. The above suggestion resolves that.
Honestly i always felt that The Valeyard was in the Doctor's Fear behind the door the notion that he would go too far and become his own worst fear i think since Matt Smith announced his departure from the show Moffatt had to hastly rewritten alot of stuff and stuff Time of the doctor with all the plot threads
which explains why the story itself felt rushed
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Post by Deleted on Apr 10, 2020 10:32:21 GMT
Yeah. I reckon that he was created by the Eleventh Doctor while he was off-screen in The Name of the Doctor. He levered open his own timeline, mending all those little alterations made by the Great Intelligence, and slotted that new incarnation in. He didn't exist until he did. Whether he was created deliberately or accidentally, I'm not sure. It might have been one of those circumstances where the Intelligence's changes to the Eighth Doctor were so far reaching, that the only way of preserving the timeline was to put war in as a splint between Eight and Nine. I don't tend to worry about the War Doctor and how he fits in, I just know that I think he's a brilliant creation and I lap up any stories with him, but I like the idea of this. It's always slightly baffled me that the Doctor's fear behind the door in The God Complex ended up being the crack in time and not the War Doctor. The above suggestion resolves that. Thanks. I've been trying to think of a good analogy for continuity for a while and I think you've just help me strike on it. It's like a mechanical puzzle. Ornately decorated. Intricately constructed. The sort of thing that draws a person's eye to where it's stored on the shelf. There's a real sense of satisfaction to pulling it apart and putting it back together again. That click as everything falls into place and "Aha", there it is. But sometimes, just as equally, it's nice just to look at it. There's a craftsmanship to its components and to its whole.
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Post by shallacatop on Apr 10, 2020 10:55:02 GMT
I don't tend to worry about the War Doctor and how he fits in, I just know that I think he's a brilliant creation and I lap up any stories with him, but I like the idea of this. It's always slightly baffled me that the Doctor's fear behind the door in The God Complex ended up being the crack in time and not the War Doctor. The above suggestion resolves that. Thanks. I've been trying to think of a good analogy for continuity for a while and I think you've just help me strike on it. It's like a mechanical puzzle. Ornately decorated. Intricately constructed. The sort of thing that draws a person's eye to where it's stored on the shelf. There's a real sense of satisfaction to pulling it apart and putting it back together again. That click as everything falls into place and "Aha", there it is. But sometimes, just as equally, it's nice just to look at it. There's a craftsmanship to its components and to its whole. Absolutely, I don't think I could have put it better myself and I think that is actually my own attitude towards continuity. Sometimes I am very interested with how it all slots in, sometimes I can just enjoy it because I enjoy it. I am a fan of both Doctor Who and Star Wars and I find it interesting how different their approaches to the expanded universe are. Big Finish, for example, do a lot of what we might call "fanjodrell", as in character X meeting character Y, but don't do continuity as much, as in making sure everything links together. Don't get me wrong, they have done it before, and I think the consensus is that it's their main thing, but I'd argue it isn't their MO. Star Wars, on the other hand, seems to let its placement drive what expanded universe it creates. Their recent runs of Darth Vader comics were made explicitly to see Vader during the events between A New Hope (or Star Wars) & Empire Strikes back, or another that is directly following Revenge of the Sith. Indeed, they recently began a run of Vader immediately after ESB. In contrast, I am intrigued to see where they go with their High Republic era spanning different mediums. I hope I explained that well!
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