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Post by themeddlingmonk on Apr 16, 2020 21:42:11 GMT
Unless I’ve very much misconstrued something, I think Assets of War is actually a prequel to Nevernor. Well that opens things up quite considerably. I guess that Susan’s War could go almost anywhere prior to Nevernor then. I might move it to in-between the main bulk of Only The Good and Gallifrey: Time War 3, just to keep it in a relatively later stage of the War. It has to go after Gallifrey Time War 2, as Susan mentions that the Celestial Intervention Agency has been disbanded in The Shoreditch Intervention.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Apr 16, 2020 22:21:02 GMT
Actually scratch that, having given Nevernor another listen I’m not so sure that Assets of War is a prequel. Or at the very least it’s very vague. Its just odd because {Spoiler} At the end of Assets of War, Susan exiles the villain on the same planet that Nevernor takes place on, so having a hazy memory of Nevernor, I thought maybe it was some sort of set-up for that story, but it appears not.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 19, 2020 10:24:45 GMT
So as whether Assets of War is actually a prequel to Nevernor or not seems to be up in the air, I’ve opted to leave Susan’s War where I put in initially. Now to try to match the intent of The Starship of Theseus being the Doctor’s first proper encounter with the Time War, I’ve moved any story where Eight seems to be actively engaging with the War or its effects to after Eighth Doctor: Time War. Museum Peace is back in Act 1, as it’s so open to interpretation anyway it’s not much of a stretch to fit into almost any interpretation of how the timelines altered in Starship. Other than that, the only appearances of the Eighth Doctor in the War saga prior to Starship are his guest appearances in Rage of the Time Lords, All Hands on Deck and The Shoreditch Intervention. My current interpretation of Starship is- {Spoiler} Timeline 1: -The Doctor meets Sheena and she joins him on his travels in the TARDIS. -After many adventures together, the Doctor decides to treat Sheena to a luxury cruise on the Theseus, arriving onboard as it departs a spaceport. There they discover suspicious disappearances and discover the captain is using troll-inhabited hyperspace lanes and killing unwilling guests to appease the trolls.
Timeline 2/3: -The Doctor meets Emma/Louise and she joins him in his travels on the TARDIS. -After many adventures together, they arrive on a spaceport which is attacked by the Daleks. They help refugees to flee aboard former luxury cruise liner the Theseus.
Timeline 4: -The Doctor meets Louise and she joins him on his travels in the TARDIS. -After many adventures together, the Doctor and Louise arrive on a spaceport which is attacked by the Daleks. As they help refugees escape on former luxury cruise liner the Theseus, Louise is killed.
Timeline 5: -The Doctor receives a call to arms after the formal declaration of the Time War. [Celestial Intervention] After much deliberation, including visiting Kalendorf [Museum Peace], he refuses to partake in the conflict. -The Doctor actively tries to avoid the warzones, becoming embroiled in the Master’s machinations [Rage of the Time Lords] and attempting to stop Susan’s recruitment [All Hands on Deck, The Shoreditch Intervention]. These diversions prevent him ever meeting Louise (if she even exists). -The Doctor arrives on a spaceport which is attacked by the Daleks. He helps refugees flee aboard former luxury cruiser liner the Theseus. This is the first time he has been caught up in a temporal warzone.
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Post by sherlock on Apr 23, 2020 11:45:18 GMT
I think it's a matter of it being difficult to reconcile certain surrounding stories with Starship of Theseus, since SoT features McGann living his life up to the Theseus with no War, and then having his life rewritten while he's still on the Theseus that it's been going on for a while but he's on the sidelines helping people -- a decision we 'saw' him make in Museum Peace, which then doesn't fit into SoT neatly. Knowing full well that it damages the intended flow of SoT's story, in my head I reconcile it as: - 'Starship of Theseus' in the original timeline - 'Gallifrey: Celestial Intervention' happens, the war begins, call to arms goes out to all Time Lords - Original timeline overwritten by a new timeline - New timeline: The Doctor agonizes over whether to go to war in 'Museum Peace' and ultimately decides to stay on the sidelines - New timeline: Off-screen, the Doctor arrives on refugee ship Theseus, to help people on the sidelines of the War - New timeline: 'Starship of Theseus' after the timeline reset It's messy to be sure, but it is a war in time, it's not too difficult to handwave away problems and contrive solutions Clarification Edit: And uh, to be clear, this is in no way meant as a dig at Starship of Theseus. It's a good story to sit down and enjoy end to end. I just also enjoy doing mental gymnastics to try to line up timelines/canon/etc IIRC Commander Harlan from 8th Dr Time War 1 is mentioned in Gallifrey Time War 2 in such a way as implies Gallifrey TW2 takes place before 8th Dr TW1.3. Doesn't that place Starship Theseus after Gallifrey Time War 2? Unless of course 8DTW1 happened first, but then"the timelines changed" before GTW2?
It's over a year since I listened to either so I may be misremembering ...
Yeah the briefing in Assassins seems designed to setup the Time Lord military we see in Eighth Doctor: Time War (offworld training camps, Ollistra getting special dispensation). I think Rassilon mentions Harlan as one of the generals who have left Gallifrey to go to war as well. So from the point of view of the Time Lords, the Time War has been going for ages by Eighth Doctor: Time War. The same is not necessarily true for the Doctor.
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Post by theillusiveman on May 16, 2020 14:45:31 GMT
Honestly im still wondering about Lies in Ruins where its set for The 8th Doctor- i feel as though its post Bliss and post War Master Rage of The Time Lords im also wondering why no one has picked up on the biggest plothole of 8 not forgetting River
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Post by themeddlingmonk on May 16, 2020 15:16:41 GMT
Honestly im still wondering about Lies in Ruins where its set for The 8th Doctor- i feel as though its post Bliss and post War Master Rage of The Time Lords im also wondering why no one has picked up on the biggest plothole of 8 not forgetting River Probably because it’s explained that he needs to remember her for his next meeting with her. Either that’s an upcoming audio, or it’s an offscreen thing where she just wipes his memory again.
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Post by theillusiveman on Jun 4, 2020 13:41:50 GMT
With The New Time Lord Victorious Audios do they come before The Sontaran Ordeal stories Due to the jacket being blue?
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Post by sherlock on Jun 5, 2020 11:32:25 GMT
With The New Time Lord Victorious Audios do they come before The Sontaran Ordeal stories Due to the jacket being blue? I’d be cautious about using the Doctor’s clothing for timeline placement. TLV might end up in the post-Eighth Doctor: Time War and pre- The Night of the Doctor gap, but best to wait till release.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jun 5, 2020 12:08:13 GMT
With The New Time Lord Victorious Audios do they come before The Sontaran Ordeal stories Due to the jacket being blue? I’d be cautious about using the Doctor’s clothing for timeline placement. TLV might end up in the post-Eighth Doctor: Time War and pre- The Night of the Doctor gap, but best to wait till release. Do we even know for sure that TLV is even set during the Time War for the Eighth Doctor?
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Post by sherlock on Jun 5, 2020 12:51:09 GMT
I’d be cautious about using the Doctor’s clothing for timeline placement. TLV might end up in the post-Eighth Doctor: Time War and pre- The Night of the Doctor gap, but best to wait till release. Do we even know for sure that TLV is even set during the Time War for the Eighth Doctor? The news piece announcing his Big Finish trilogy claimed ‘Paul McGann leads a trilogy of exciting full-cast audio dramas, as the Eighth Doctor faces his old enemies, the Daleks, in the Time War.’
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Post by shallacatop on Jun 5, 2020 13:02:30 GMT
At this moment in time, I’d treat the Doctor’s clothes as a nice nod to the blue variant of his TV Movie costume he sported in DWM. It’ll be the tidbits the stories themselves provide that’ll indicate the timelines, and whether it’s the Time War or not.
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Post by Digi on Jun 5, 2020 14:50:11 GMT
My impression from the initial big press release announcing the entire TLV project was that it is a time war, but not the Time War.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Jun 6, 2020 11:54:03 GMT
That news piece does suggest that the Eighth Doctor’s part in the proceedings does take place during the Time War though. Even if that’s not a major part of the storyline, it does appear that that’s the era they’ve chosen for Eight.
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Post by sherlock on Aug 23, 2020 23:39:45 GMT
It’s been pointed out to me on Reddit that The Slyther of Shoreditch, a short story set during Remembrance of the Daleks, features the Time Lord from Genesis and apparently hints towards the War. I’ve slotted it in just after Remembrance in the Prelude section.
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Post by nitronine on Sept 4, 2020 8:25:42 GMT
I don't know how well this fits with everything released or indeed any future releases but here's my theory for how the 8th Doctor experiences the Time War:
8th Doctor Titan comics - just before the war starts. He's travelling with Josie.
Starship of Theseus - his first step into the war, he arrives in a time when it has already been going on for months. Time is altered and Josie becomes Sheena becomes Emma becomes Louise gets erased.
The rest of the 8th Doctor Time War Series
(Probably) Lies in Ruins - I'm guessing something big happens in the Time War series to make 8 become the way we see him in LiR but that's just speculation.
Museum Peace - 8 makes the decision to go back to the start of the war.
All of the early Time War era stuff goes next, where 8 is helping where he can but not getting directly involved in the war, possibly not getting too involved as he doesn't want to alter the timeline too much. I've not got any order worked out for this but I like to think that the first thing he does is try to prevent Susan joining the War in All Hands on Deck.
Night of the Doctor - after helping where he can he eventually realises he can't be passive anymore and makes the decision to regenerate into the War Doctor.
Like I said I don't know how well this fits because I've not tried to listen to the stories in this way before, but it's the way it's currently sitting in my head until someone points out that it can't work for whatever reason.
ETA: I think there’s a War Doctor Short Story where he goes back to the beginning of the war so it’s not like there isn’t precedent for something similar
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Post by xlozdob on Sept 4, 2020 10:06:15 GMT
I don't know how well this fits with everything released or indeed any future releases but here's my theory for how the 8th Doctor experiences the Time War: 8th Doctor Titan comics - just before the war starts. He's travelling with Josie. Starship of Theseus - his first step into the war, he arrives in a time when it has already been going on for months. Time is altered and Josie becomes Sheena becomes Emma becomes Louise gets erased. The rest of the 8th Doctor Time War Series (Probably) Lies in Ruins - I'm guessing something big happens in the Time War series to make 8 become the way we see him in LiR but that's just speculation. Museum Peace - 8 makes the decision to go back to the start of the war. All of the early Time War era stuff goes next, where 8 is helping where he can but not getting directly involved in the war, possibly not getting too involved as he doesn't want to alter the timeline too much. I've not got any order worked out for this but I like to think that the first thing he does is try to prevent Susan joining the War in All Hands on Deck. Night of the Doctor - after helping where he can he eventually realises he can't be passive anymore and makes the decision to regenerate into the War Doctor. Like I said I don't know how well this fits because I've not tried to listen to the stories in this way before, but it's the way it's currently sitting in my head until someone points out that it can't work for whatever reason. Personally, I really like that and I think it works really well in terms of character development. I also really like Josie being the first iteration of Sheena, and I think Olivia Vinall would be great as Josie, should they ever want to adapt the character. That would be awesome. I also think the TLV stuff for Eight should go in that timeline, before the Last Great Time War starts. I had placed it after Josie and before Sheena, but it could just as well fit before Josie (as far as we know for now).
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 4, 2020 12:16:57 GMT
I just hope the TARDIS interior returns to the Victorian parlour one before the end of the ongoing Time War series.
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Post by sherlock on Sept 4, 2020 12:22:18 GMT
I just hope the TARDIS interior returns to the Victorian parlour one before the end of the ongoing Time War series. I’ve long given up on Big Finish having any consistency on the TARDIS interior.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 4, 2020 12:43:44 GMT
I just hope the TARDIS interior returns to the Victorian parlour one before the end of the ongoing Time War series. I’ve long given up on Big Finish having any consistency on the TARDIS interior. Well that’s true, it’s just bizarre that they changed the sound, but didn’t even change it to the War Doctor sound. It’s not even a plot point or anything, they just used the TV Movie sound for one scene then changed it to a generic 80s sounding beep-bop sound. But then still use the TVM sounds in everything outside of the Eighth Doctor Time War sets. Maybe the Doctor just finally turned the lights on like in the Mags trilogy.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Sept 16, 2020 17:07:52 GMT
So yeah the new Rasmus is legitimate and Rassilon is President in Eighth Doctor Time War 4.
Which means that the boxset slips into Act 7 with the other sets with no changes to the running order.
Also noteworthy is the fact that the Doctor still seems to be eager to avoid the War entirely and get away, whereas it’s Bliss that’s pushing him to get more involved and “help where he can”. So any story where he’s doing that definitely needs to be after the ongoing Time War range.
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