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Post by iainmclaughlin on Mar 23, 2018 20:23:16 GMT
I stand by my opinion that everything is canon, even when it contradicts other stuff and even when it's a bit ropey. In my head The Curse of Fatal Death and Dr Who and the Daleks are as canon as Lungbarrow, The Green Death, Pyramids of Mars, The Parting of the Ways, Campaign, The Sirens of Time... it's all canon - it just exists in the Doctor Who omniverse. As long as it's a good story, it fits in somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 21:33:41 GMT
Just to elaborate. Canon is also fun. Figuring out Canon should be fun. how things fit together, if they fit together. It's a puzzle to solve. But it should never get in your way of enjoying a story.
I think you are mixing up canon and continuity, which is a common mistake in fandom. Canon means having one authoritative source as to what officially counts, which Doctor Who doesn't have as the BBC have never proclaimed such a thing. Continuity is how it all fits together. Which is what most of us grapple with at some stage, or try to, and yes it can be fun. I used to love putting all the Dalek stories from every medium together, then John Peel came along with his novels, I went dizzy and gave up! Ah, you might say you went dizzy with Daleks.  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2018 22:35:23 GMT
Well, yes. I think too I was more thinking along the lines of head canon, We tried head canon, but we felt it went better in the middle!   |
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Post by randomjc on Mar 23, 2018 23:03:26 GMT
Well, yes. I think too I was more thinking along the lines of head canon, We tried head canon, but we felt it went better in the middle! >> << |
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Mar 24, 2018 0:35:08 GMT
The Beeb are in the curious position of not being able to declare what is canon, while also being able to say, if they choose, what isn't.
For me it's about the continuity and not the canon, and at the end of the day there are very few things I exclude, notably Dimensions in Time and Death Comes to Time.
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Post by jasonward on Mar 24, 2018 0:57:47 GMT
The Beeb are in the curious position of not being able to declare what is canon, while also being able to say, if they choose, what isn't. For me it's about the continuity and not the canon, and at the end of the day there are very few things I exclude, notably Dimensions in Time and Death Comes to Time. Why could they not say what is canon? I wouldn't encourage them to do so, and if they tried to include anything outside of the TV show it would get them into hot water (they can't say any none TV stuff is canon) but is there a reason they couldn't just up and say "Only TV" and be just fine? |
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Post by sherlock on Mar 24, 2018 1:10:06 GMT
The Beeb are in the curious position of not being able to declare what is canon, while also being able to say, if they choose, what isn't. For me it's about the continuity and not the canon, and at the end of the day there are very few things I exclude, notably Dimensions in Time and Death Comes to Time. Why could they not say what is canon? I wouldn't encourage them to do so, and if they tried to include anything outside of the TV show it would get them into hot water (they can't say any none TV stuff is canon) but is there a reason they couldn't just up and say "Only TV" and be just fine? I guess if they wanted to they could issue a 'TV only' edict, but given the previous two showrunners have had links to expanded universe material I guess they just don't want to. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2018 3:17:38 GMT
Why could they not say what is canon? I wouldn't encourage them to do so, and if they tried to include anything outside of the TV show it would get them into hot water (they can't say any none TV stuff is canon) but is there a reason they couldn't just up and say "Only TV" and be just fine? I guess if they wanted to they could issue a 'TV only' edict, but given the previous two showrunners have had links to expanded universe material I guess they just don't want to. I guess it de-incentivises people to look at content other than the television series. From a purely business standpoint, there's little sense in not letting the novels, audios, comics have a free hand where possible. |
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Post by omega on Mar 24, 2018 6:27:51 GMT
Consistency in the continuity is preferred, but not to the point of being slaved to it. A good story shines through regardless of how it fits into the continuity.
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Post by sherlock on Mar 24, 2018 12:53:02 GMT
I stand by my opinion that everything is canon, even when it contradicts other stuff and even when it's a bit ropey. In my head The Curse of Fatal Death and Dr Who and the Daleks are as canon as Lungbarrow, The Green Death, Pyramids of Mars, The Parting of the Ways, Campaign, The Sirens of Time... it's all canon - it just exists in the Doctor Who omniverse. As long as it's a good story, it fits in somewhere. I like the idea of a Who omniverse. Somewhere out there is a universe where a human inventor called Doctor Who battled the Daleks, somewhere out there is a universe where the seventh Doctor battled General Tannis, somewhere out there is a universe where the Doctor just wanted to retire with his fiancé Emma. |
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Mar 24, 2018 15:03:15 GMT
I stand by my opinion that everything is canon, even when it contradicts other stuff and even when it's a bit ropey. In my head The Curse of Fatal Death and Dr Who and the Daleks are as canon as Lungbarrow, The Green Death, Pyramids of Mars, The Parting of the Ways, Campaign, The Sirens of Time... it's all canon - it just exists in the Doctor Who omniverse. As long as it's a good story, it fits in somewhere. I like the idea of a Who omniverse. Somewhere out there is a universe where a human inventor called Doctor Who battled the Daleks, somewhere out there is a universe where the seventh Doctor battled General Tannis, somewhere out there is a universe where the Doctor just wanted to retire with his fiancé Emma. says the Doctor has three different ninth incarnations. Presumably this was intended to be Curse, Shalka, and the New Series, though I suppose now we have to assume it's Hurt instead of Eccleston. I like the idea that the result of the Time War was a maddening number of timelines as the War was fought, then rewound, then fought again. The only inevitably was that Gallifrey would lose its control over history. One timeline resulted in the Time Lords being trapped in the Matrix, sending the Doctor on missions. Another was the War from the EDAs. Another was Death Comes to Time. There was one timeline where the Daleks were reformed as a result of the Time Lords manipulating probabilities, attempting to stop the Dalek incarnation of the War before it started. Unfortunately, this attempt cost the Doctor almost all his regenerations and Gallifrey was destroyed anyway when the Master's bachelor party got out of hand. |
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Post by iainmclaughlin on Mar 24, 2018 16:46:39 GMT
I like the idea of a Who omniverse. Somewhere out there is a universe where a human inventor called Doctor Who battled the Daleks, somewhere out there is a universe where the seventh Doctor battled General Tannis, somewhere out there is a universe where the Doctor just wanted to retire with his fiancé Emma. says the Doctor has three different ninth incarnations. Presumably this was intended to be Curse, Shalka, and the New Series, though I suppose now we have to assume it's Hurt instead of Eccleston. I like the idea that the result of the Time War was a maddening number of timelines as the War was fought, then rewound, then fought again. The only inevitably was that Gallifrey would lose its control over history. One timeline resulted in the Time Lords being trapped in the Matrix, sending the Doctor on missions. Another was the War from the EDAs. Another was Death Comes to Time. There was one timeline where the Daleks were reformed as a result of the Time Lords manipulating probabilities, attempting to stop the Dalek incarnation of the War before it started. Unfortunately, this attempt cost the Doctor almost all his regenerations and Gallifrey was destroyed anyway when the Master's bachelor party got out of hand. I loved that book. One of my favourites. I like to imagine that rather than three there are as many as the writer needs. That lets all the Unbounds exist too. I wonder if there's a huge comicstory to be had in an Omniverse idea? I also wonder if Cushing's Dr Who was half human. By the way, the photoshop pic somebody did recently showing Michael Palin as Dr Who was terrific. But then I saw The Death of Stalin in whicxh Palin plays Molotov - and it actually would work! A total digression, I apologise but best to say it while I remember. My memory's rubbish, y'see. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2018 2:14:08 GMT
The Gallifrey Chronicles says the Doctor has three different ninth incarnations. Presumably this was intended to be Curse, Shalka, and the New Series, though I suppose now we have to assume it's Hurt instead of Eccleston. I like the idea that the result of the Time War was a maddening number of timelines as the War was fought, then rewound, then fought again. The only inevitably was that Gallifrey would lose its control over history. One timeline resulted in the Time Lords being trapped in the Matrix, sending the Doctor on missions. Another was the War from the EDAs. Another was Death Comes to Time. There was one timeline where the Daleks were reformed as a result of the Time Lords manipulating probabilities, attempting to stop the Dalek incarnation of the War before it started. Unfortunately, this attempt cost the Doctor almost all his regenerations and Gallifrey was destroyed anyway when the Master's bachelor party got out of hand. I loved that book. One of my favourites. I like to imagine that rather than three there are as many as the writer needs. That lets all the Unbounds exist too. I wonder if there's a huge comicstory to be had in an Omniverse idea? I also wonder if Cushing's Dr Who was half human. By the way, the photoshop pic somebody did recently showing Michael Palin as Dr Who was terrific. But then I saw The Death of Stalin in whicxh Palin plays Molotov - and it actually would work! A total digression, I apologise but best to say it while I remember. My memory's rubbish, y'see. The Omniversal Spectrum, which ended up being used for Wordsmiths, comes from this story here by Scott Gray.  I've always been fond of the idea that every Unbound incarnation we've seen thus far exists in the melee of the Time War. The War Doctor acts like a scientific control in an experiment, a yardstick which divergences can be measured from. Beyond that, well... They live a very long time, the Doctor. How many future lives have we actually seen? If we travel past the 210th century, would we start seeing incarnations starring Michael Palin, David Collings, David Suchet, Richard E. Grant...?   |
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Mar 25, 2018 14:21:47 GMT
The Beeb are in the curious position of not being able to declare what is canon, while also being able to say, if they choose, what isn't. For me it's about the continuity and not the canon, and at the end of the day there are very few things I exclude, notably Dimensions in Time and Death Comes to Time. Why could they not say what is canon? I wouldn't encourage them to do so, and if they tried to include anything outside of the TV show it would get them into hot water (they can't say any none TV stuff is canon) but is there a reason they couldn't just up and say "Only TV" and be just fine? Well, they CAN, but they'd automatically be shooting themselves in the foot re licensing properties, maybe even their own non TV productions. What's the incentive to buy something when the originators say it doesn't count? "No, it doesn't count but buy it anyway we want your money" isn't a clever marketing ploy. |
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Post by thethirddoctor on Mar 25, 2018 15:02:05 GMT
Canonicity does matter.
As long as tv events aren't contradicted in a later tv episode.
I've never been a fan of the Virgin/BBC novels, and I only have the BF episodes that I like (I tend to wait until the storyline is released, and I know what I am buying).
So, although I think is it important, it's not as important to me as I haven't absorbed all the material.
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Post by J.A. Prentice on Mar 25, 2018 17:24:34 GMT
Canonicity does matter. As long as tv events aren't contradicted in a later tv episode. Well, thank Rassilon we don't have three different Atlantises or four pre-Hartnell incarnations of the Doctor that are never mentioned again or anything of that sort. Then we'd be sunk. |
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Post by thethirddoctor on Mar 25, 2018 19:11:38 GMT
Canonicity does matter. As long as tv events aren't contradicted in a later tv episode. Well, thank Rassilon we don't have three different Atlantises or four pre-Hartnell incarnations of the Doctor that are never mentioned again or anything of that sort. Then we'd be sunk. I didn't say it never happens! But, more care has to be made, especially with NuWho. Because it has happened in the past, it shouldn't happen again. |
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