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Post by Whovitt on Jun 7, 2018 2:50:02 GMT
I'm guessing from the fact that the stream seems to be passed it and the internet hasn't imploded that The Web of Fear 3 was just the photo-recon?
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Post by number13 on Jun 7, 2018 10:02:21 GMT
I'm guessing from the fact that the stream seems to be passed it and the internet hasn't imploded that The Web of Fear 3 was just the photo-recon? Good deduction! Yes, sadly - but I think we all knew really that there would have been a mega-announcement somewhere if Web 3 had been about to be re-released. Or even an animated episode 3.
And then a DVD Special Edition, not a free-to-stream showing. (I'm hoping for a Special Edition of 'Web' anyway, just for commentary and extras as they did for 'The Enemy of the World'.)
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Post by number13 on Jun 7, 2018 10:27:27 GMT
The Tomb of the Cybermen. A classic undoubtedly. Has anyone else found it a bit weird that they just leave Toberman's body like that? The man just gave his life for them, at the very least give him a grave. Agree. In-universe I guess we could say they were traumatised by events and wanted to get off Telos ASAP? Or that they still feared the Cyber-converted parts of Toberman now the human mind was no longer there to control them??
In reality, I assume they wanted a dramatic final image that would stay in the memory to signify all the deaths that had occurred duing the story, and the closed doors of the Tomb.
Basically, 'Doctor Who' does not bury its numerous dead, usually they are not even mentioned again, let alone honoured. I can only think of a tiny handful of stories where we've seen what happens to a character after they've been killed/died - 'The Ark' and 'Planet of Evil' are two. And in both those cases the main reason for including the sequence is so it can be re-used later in the plot for another purpose.
But yes, Toberman's journey from 'hired heavy' to self-sacrificing hero, overcoming Cyber-conditioning along the way (how many ever ever done that?) is a key story thread and it and he did deserve a proper human end to contrast with the emotionless Cyber-view of the world. A close-up of his lonely grave on Telos, with the expedition spacecraft launching beyond, would have been a memorable final shot imo.
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Post by pazzer on Jun 7, 2018 13:23:49 GMT
The Enemy of the World Only caught the last few episodes of this but Patrick Troughton was amazing.
The Web of Fear wow, was hooked by the mystery of it all and yeti in the underground looked amazing. Also the exchange between Anna and Knight made me smile and liked the continuity that tardis crew had met professor before.
The Dominators Some great scenes with the Doctor and Jamie. But story didn't really go anywhere.
The Mind Robber Loved this as a kid and watching it again didn't disappoint. Though I'd forgotten how strange it is.
The Krotons Average story with some good moments between the Doctor and Zoe.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 13:29:02 GMT
Seeds of Death and The War Games tomorrow
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Post by number13 on Jun 7, 2018 16:55:10 GMT
Seeds of Death and The War Games tomorrow Today! June 7th
Tomorrow begins nine days with my Doctor
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Post by number13 on Jun 7, 2018 18:12:43 GMT
The Dominators
Well that was my very last 'new' classic Doctor Who story (of those which still exist) and... actually it wasn't that bad, up to a point. I thought the story carried itself along quite well for the first three episodes with a quite credible Dulcian society - meant to be a bit like later Ancient Greece perhaps, going by the clothes? And they were a more intellectual society 'dominated' by the military might of Rome, despite having once been a formidable military power.
It's true that 'Doctor Who' had already done the perils of noble pacifists confronted by an evil military power which cares nothing for their moral high ground, as far back as 'The Daleks', but there's a twist here. The Dulcians mostly don't fight - without the efforts of the Doctor and friends and a couple of rebellious young Dulcians, they and their world would have been wiped out.
The last two episodes did begin to drag but I thought that if they had been compressed into a single episode (Dominator confronts the Council, Jamie and Cully fight Quarks, the Doctor does his plan and kaboom!) it would have been a good, pacey finale to a four-parter. So, not too bad, and all the Patrick&Frazer scenes are brilliant! - but I really couldn't take the Quarks seriously. Deadly bedside cabinets with squeaky voices are a step too far for my credulity, even if they fire a good effect or two.
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Post by number13 on Jun 7, 2018 19:02:24 GMT
The Mind Robber An outstanding work of Fiction! Filled with brilliant writing, designs, visual and sound effects and under David Maloney’s excellent direction, it's sometimes creepy, sometimes exciting, sometimes funny, always surreal and a delight from the first page right through to the happy ending. The Second Doctor is the perfect Doctor for this strange story - splendidly playful, ingenious and suddenly intense and serious; Patrick Troughton takes the words from the page and makes this wonderful Doctor real.
It's endlessly ingenious and fascinating and beautifully made, with the sinuous Medusa effect in particular that would have done credit to the best fantasy films of the era. And it shows again that the unkind stories about early ‘Doctor Who’ being badly made are fiction too.
The Doctor, Jamie and Zoe all have their star moments (highlight: Zoe and ze Karkus! ) and The Master (no not him!) was like Sméagol / Gollum, a person in two minds (or the reverse), part likeable, friendly and human, part ruthless, deadly and alien, and Emrys Jones depicts his double-character brilliantly. The ending's as unusual as the rest of this unforgettable adventure. Perhaps not even the Doctor knew for certain where the battle was fought or who his enemy truly was, but he knew how to write the closing chapter and take everyone back to Reality where they all belonged. I can’t say ‘they all lived happily ever after’, because they soon met some Cybermen in the sewers of London… but that’s another story…
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Post by number13 on Jun 7, 2018 19:32:19 GMT
The Krotons
I like this story, which seems quite simple on the surface; the Gonds are ruled by convention and the orders of their (unseen) masters, the Krotons, who teach the Gonds all the knowledge they are told they need. But as always with Robert Holmes there’s much more depth to the story, which seems to be full of social comment on the 1960s. 'The Krotons' depicts youth protests, demand for freedom of thought and education, a hereditary leadership under threat but adapting and surviving and a revolutionary leader who turns the freedom movement into a personal power-grab, before being defeated.
There are also very good science fiction ideas, moments of pure science and pure comedy and a great twist as the Doctor makes things much worse by being too clever!, before he can make them better. Some of the elements don’t always live up to the script’s intentions but the regular stars and the lead guest actors are excellent.
Patrick Troughton is superb in a magnetic performance of sheer brilliance and Frazer Hines and Wendy Padbury are definitely part of a team of three in this story, their characters playing off each other perfectly and very well written. The Doctor and Zoe share two splendid comedy sequences with the teaching machines and 'who stands where' and the moment when Jamie thinks his friends have left without him really grabs the attention. And I love the comedy chemistry lab scene with Jamie and Gond scientist Beta, surely a rather biting name given by Robert Holmes to emphasise that Beta is clever, but not the best – if he was ‘Alpha’, the Krotons would have taken him.
This wasn’t a cheap story; per episode it cost more than ‘The Invasion’ apparently and has good sets and good effects within the limits of 60s studio television. If only the actual Krotons hadn't been (in the words of Terrance Dicks, who script edited it) 'possibly the worst monster in the history of ‘Doctor Who''! (For my money, the Quarks win that one, but it's close!)
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Post by sherlock on Jun 7, 2018 20:38:51 GMT
The Seeds of Death. I really enjoy this story. It fits it's length perfectly and juggles enough separate strands to keep interest. Plus there's Patrick Troughton vs Foam, what more can you want?
And now for the 10 episode epic!
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Post by number13 on Jun 7, 2018 21:03:32 GMT
The Seeds of Death
I enjoy both the 60s 'Ice Warrior' stories and they have a lot in common (as well as the obvious.) Both play with near-futures dependent on one piece of unreliable technology, both have unnatural environmental disasters, both have a base-under-siege with two rival leaders who take different views on the technology - but work together for the good of humanity. And both explore the idea of 'terraforming'. In the original, the humans are trying to melt the ice and reform the Earth as they knew it; here the Martians want to recreate their own world. And both times, the Doctor uses human technology to fight them by changing the environment to make it (fatally) less like Mars.
And both have iconic 'chase' scenes where an Ice Warrior lumbers after his prey. In the original it's Victoria among the crevasses of the glacier, here it's the Doctor among the shiny corridors of the T-Mat station, but the tension works every time for me in both cases and the filming is excellent. And all that location foam too!
For me, 'The Ice Warriors' just edges it over 'Seeds' because I like the setting and scenario better, but 'Seeds' has a huge plus in Alan Bennion's first Ice Lord. Slaar is not just a warlord, he's a really unpleasant evil personality and it's one of the strengths of both stories that all the people - human and Martian - are written with clear and credible personalities, never just as types.
Oh, and the rocket launch scene has me chortling every time at the Doctor and Jamie vibrating and bouncing around - the expert double-act putting in one of their comic additions, I'd guess, and for me they never fail!
And now - epic time!
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Post by glutamodo on Jun 7, 2018 21:13:17 GMT
I mentioned the "Programme Guide" paperback book above. My first edition copy got destroyed in 1997. It's totally ironic that I recently decided to get another copy, this time, a 1994 edition that went to and past the end of the TV run, and it arrived in the mail about the same time that this Twitch series started up (total co-incidence, I knew nothing of this Twitch deal beforehand) It was only via that book that I knew anything about the early years of Doctor Who. And neither edition mentioned the BBC tape-wiping, I only learned about that later on, I sort of thought that I might be able to see whatever early stories that interested me "someday" down the line. Not a lot of the story summaries really interested me whole lot though. I will say, thanks to Twitch, I have been able to see some of those that did interest me.
Today ends Doctor Two. And from then on, I've seen EVERYTHING from 1970 to 1989. Many episodes, numerous times.
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Post by pazzer on Jun 7, 2018 21:35:38 GMT
The Seeds of Death Found myself gripped by the story. Though the characters were well fleshed out. Rocket scene was great and I really enjoy this Tardis team.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2018 21:41:30 GMT
Just flicked on The War Games, and who do I find in the chat? fantasticalice!
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Post by Whovitt on Jun 8, 2018 0:10:14 GMT
The Seeds of Death. I really enjoy this story. It fits it's length perfectly and juggles enough separate strands to keep interest. Plus there's Patrick Troughton vs Foam, what more can you want? And now for the 10 episode epic! The Seeds of Death is one of my all time favourite (and among the first stories I can remember seeing, so it's got an even special-er place in my heart) Ha, I saw your "10 episode epic" and thought, "Oh, I wonder what people's opinions on that are...?" I then realised it had been 3 hours since you posted this and that you still can't have finished it yet
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Post by number13 on Jun 8, 2018 1:03:24 GMT
The War Games Exciting, gripping, mysterious, revealing, universe-redefining epic Time Lord finale! (^^ One word per episode, I hope that was concise enough... )
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Post by sherlock on Jun 8, 2018 1:12:09 GMT
The Seeds of Death. I really enjoy this story. It fits it's length perfectly and juggles enough separate strands to keep interest. Plus there's Patrick Troughton vs Foam, what more can you want? And now for the 10 episode epic! The Seeds of Death is one of my all time favourite (and among the first stories I can remember seeing, so it's got an even special-er place in my heart) Ha, I saw your "10 episode epic" and thought, "Oh, I wonder what people's opinions on that are...?" I then realised it had been 3 hours since you posted this and that you still can't have finished it yet Well four hours later and The War Games are finished. It's great. The length is used to pack the story with twists and turns, even if it did drag a little in the middle. The regulars are great as always, the in-fighting amongst the War Lord, War Chief and Security Chief was well down (a stark contrast to the endless dull bickering seen in The Dominators). The War Chief was very nicely done, that brilliant moment he and the Doctor instantly recognised each other, and he casually drops the major revelation about the Doctor stealing the TARDIS into a conversation. The endings are painfully tragic, Zoe brushing off her forgotten travels as not having been important, and Jamie having lost all the development he'd gained (the meeting between him and the Red Coat earlier in the story shows how far he'd come, only for that all to be stripped away). The Time Lords have a gravitas they would never have again, which is really sold by Troughton. In the last episode gone is the second Doctor's usual hopefullness, reluctantly going along with Jamie and Zod's final escape plan knowing full well it won't work out. It's even set up early in the story, with his muted reaction to the interior of the SIDRAT. It's a milestone, and a damn good one at that.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 2:19:56 GMT
The Seeds of Death is one of my all time favourite (and among the first stories I can remember seeing, so it's got an even special-er place in my heart) Ha, I saw your "10 episode epic" and thought, "Oh, I wonder what people's opinions on that are...?" I then realised it had been 3 hours since you posted this and that you still can't have finished it yet Well four hours later and The War Games are finished. It's great. The length is used to pack the story with twists and turns, even if it did drag a little in the middle. The regulars are great as always, the in-fighting amongst the War Lord, War Chief and Security Chief was well down (a stark contrast to the endless dull bickering seen in The Dominators). The War Chief was very nicely done, that brilliant moment he and the Doctor instantly recognised each other, and he casually drops the major revelation about the Doctor stealing the TARDIS into a conversation. The endings are painfully tragic, Zoe brushing off her forgotten travels as not having been important, and Jamie having lost all the development he'd gained (the meeting between him and the Red Coat earlier in the story shows how far he'd come, only for that all to be stripped away). The Time Lords have a gravitas they would never have again, which is really sold by Troughton. In the last episode gone is the second Doctor's usual hopefullness, reluctantly going along with Jamie and Zod's final escape plan knowing full well it won't work out. It's even set up early in the story, with his muted reaction to the interior of the SIDRAT. It's a milestone, and a damn good one at that.
To be fair, two stories were meant to go into production fell through and Terrance Dicks and Malcom Hulke were left to fill the slot with a single story and had write it very quickly. I think any writer would struggle with that, although they defiently rise to the occassion. Terrance Dicks himself wasn't very fond of The War Games and was suprised (and delighted) at the more positive reception to it in recent years. (Weirdly enough, a lot of fans didn't like it for many years)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 8, 2018 2:21:40 GMT
I still kind of love that the name Time Lords - one of the biggest cornerstones in the Who mythos - probably came from Terrance Dicks or Malcom Hulke thrashing it out at a typewriter, though.
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Post by Whovitt on Jun 8, 2018 3:08:14 GMT
I still kind of love that the name Time Lords - one of the biggest cornerstones in the Who mythos - probably came from Terrance Dicks or Malcom Hulke thrashing it out at a typewriter, though. Actually, the name came from Derrick Sherwin, who suggested it to Terrance (I think it was in the Second Time Around special feature on The Krotons DVD; it's a fantastic feature!)
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