|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Jan 30, 2019 21:57:48 GMT
I haven't got this set yet, but I think it's a strange range. Originally, when the First Doctor Adventures were first announced, they were meant to be a sort of alternate era. Using the An Adventure in Space and Time actors. When the set was actually released, there were references to the television adventures and they felt rather authentic. The second set maintains that. I don't really mind a clash between authenticity and telling new stories with this team. They're well established, they have a lot of adventures together, so I don't tend to have an issue with the occasional story that really puts the crew through the wringer, or is a little out there. As lidar2 mentioned, the First Doctor's era has always been rather "out there" and varied. That's the beauty of that particular era. I think the original concept of the range was sound; using the AAISAT crew and forging an alternate era. Listening to it, it doesn't really feel like that, especially as Bradley's Doctor is an official recast. It's the three companions that fall flat a little for me. Julian Glover isn't too bad, but Claudia Grant and Jemma Powell don't particularly convince me. I thought Powell was better opposite Carole Ann Ford and William Russell in the Early Adventures actually. I think I'd have preferred David Bradley to be paired with original companions, where you can have the best of both worlds with a "new" alternate era yet also tie into continuity. Or, I'd have put him with the actual companion actors. I don't want to do a disservice to the range; the stories are great. I just think it's a bit of an oddity. Ive always believed since the beginning that people were misunderstanding BF with the whole alternate take thing. I think it was always intended to be in normal continuity but they just peddled the alternate take guff so that people wouldn’t accuse them of recasting the characters. People did and still do accuse them of that, but I really just think they wanted to do full cast First Doctor Stories and specifically not recast but then they stopped working with William Russell so the 1DAs kind of became the main source of stories from the original team.
|
|
|
Post by mark687 on Jan 30, 2019 22:12:03 GMT
To make myself clearer
Phoenicians evokes the original era as intended extremely well
Tick Tock benefits from the fact the ensemble feel is slightly different
Overall the set works very well
Regards
mark687
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jan 30, 2019 22:16:06 GMT
I get what you’re saying, but I don’t think it’s a misunderstanding when Big Finish explicitly said it.
They had the ideas to do the range shortly after AAISAT. It was only when David Bradley was recording Twice Upon A Time that they managed to book him to record shortly after wrapping up the TV story. His involvement in that is what skews it more into being a recast that’s part of the original continuity, rather than the previously intended “alternate era”.
It’s that which contributes towards it being a strange, mish mash oddity. I wish it was different, but it is what it is, and the range has produced some cracking stories. Hindsight is a wonderful thing and it’s interesting to wonder how the range would’ve turned out if they’d had the idea based on Bradley’s appearance in TUAT, rather than AAISAT.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Jan 30, 2019 22:18:17 GMT
To make myself clearer Phoenicians evokes the original era as intended extremely well Tick Tock benefits from the fact the ensemble feel is slightly different Overall the set works very well Regards mark687 Glad that you enjoyed it, Mark. It’s amazing to think we’ve already got a 70s length season from this team!
|
|
|
Post by Whovitt on Jan 30, 2019 22:49:36 GMT
Unusually for me, I completed both of these stories in single sittings, rather than breaking them up by disc. I did this for two very different reasons, as I shall outline. I listened to The Phoenicians in a single sitting because I was enjoying myself so much. I think this is one of the best historicals Big Finish have done. Maybe it's because the Hartnell years featured them so heavily on TV, but First Doctor historicals have a natural tendency to be quite good, and this one was no exception I listened to Tick-Tock World in a single sitting because I was hoping beyond hope that it might actually get interesting. It's rare for me to say this, but I was really bored with this story. It was trying to go for an emotional point but just kept failing to communicate it very well at all. And as for Carole Ann Ford's involvement, she almost needn't have bothered being there. This was very much a case of gimmick over story, I feel And even then, the gimmick didn't get pulled off in any meaningful way. I'm sad I'm so disappointed by this story, but then you can't win them all, can you? A very mixed set for me then - one brilliant, one... well, I'm probably going to be genuinely hard pressed to listen to it again (I can't believe I just wrote that!). I probably will at some point, but I'll be putting it off. I see where your coming from.
The Phoenicians Classic 1st Doc Historical. Action driven Informative pacey .
Tick Tock reminded me of the 1st Doc Virgin Missing Adventures, visuals they'd never have pulled off on TV, and the characters stretched to the limits.
That being said, overall its my favourite Volume, however with Tick Tock and Invention from Vol 2, are we beginning to see originality and Era authenticity clash with a more debatable level of success?
Regards
mark687
I think lidar2 put it perfectly. Just look at the episode Tick-Tock World was semi-inspired by, The Space Museum: Episode 1, it was very "out there". Or some of the other slightly more "interesting/imaginative" stories like The Web Planet or Planet of Giants. They weren't afraid to try some impressive visuals, even if they don't necessarily hold up today (but viewed as products of their time are still very effective, in my opinion). Again, much like lidar2 said, if you want to see originality over authenticity, I think something like Kill the Doctor!/ The Age of Sutekh from the Fourth Doctor Adventures is a good example of Big Finish "taking liberties" with the source material and beginning to "modernise" it, whereas Tick-Tock was just kind of dull and weird. I loved The Invention of Death, I think it was one of the best things Big Finish released in 2018, but Tick-Tock was just so... I can't think of the word. But I was definitely invested in Invention while I didn't really care what was happening in Tick-Tock. I think if they'd focused more on the emotional core of the story it could have worked far better as a Companion Chronicle; strip away the supporting characters (who, frankly, add very little to the story what-so-ever) and you'd probably get a pretty decent CC with a nice character focus on Susan. Still include Carole Ann Ford in it and I think it could have been something quite special, but it just didn't work for me as it is (which is a shame as it's probably the only Guy Adams script that I haven't enjoyed).
|
|
|
Post by barnabaslives on Jan 31, 2019 0:33:05 GMT
I think it's a superb set. Another smashing historical for this range with The Phoenicians, obviously, and Platt still on top form. I will have to listen to Tick Tock World again sometime to get a better idea of what I think of it on the whole as a story. I was so focused on Carole Ann's appearance that anyone besides her and the TARDIS crew seemed to pale in comparison, and was even tempted to just skip ahead to her arrival. At least that much of the story was a roaring success for me and it's helped this cast seem more natural in addition to how well they seem to be settling into their roles here on their own. I'm quite impressed with that considering how easily things might have worked out the opposite.
Interesting discussion here about what Big Finish is out to achieve - I've been feeling like maybe they're trying to give equal time to very traditional stories like the historicals, and to the kind of stories we wouldn't have gotten to see in the OS, which sounds perfectly admirable. I usually think of that latter category in terms of budgetary concerns but it can mean other things of course, and maybe they are still exploring that - I do like the way Tick Tock World used that opportunity, whereas somehow I just wasn't all that moved by The Invention of Death in spite of it being a Dorney story.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jan 31, 2019 1:11:33 GMT
The Phoenicians
Another solid historical for this series. Some nice fleshing out of guest characters and good work with the regulars.
|
|
|
Post by Star Platinum on Jan 31, 2019 2:40:06 GMT
I was so focused on Carole Ann's appearance that anyone besides her and the TARDIS crew seemed to pale in comparison, and was even tempted to just skip ahead to her arrival. I had the same problem with Nightshade. I was waiting for her and so focused on that I missed the story entirely.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2019 8:15:37 GMT
The Phoenicians. After a so-so experience with The Barbarians and the Samurai, Marc Platt really brought the recast!historical home for me. The First Doctor's steel and impishness, Ian's almost Arthurian sense of nobility, Susan's youthful curiosity, and Barbara's bold independence... It's all here. Add to that, the guest cast and it positively glisters. The Doctor's ability to spin gambits on a whim brings back fond memories of The Reign of Terror, The Crusade and other stories written by Platt with original cast members.
The discussion above is an interesting one, I can certainly see both sides of it. The premise behind the first volume, particularly in regards to The Destination Wars, feels like something developed for the alternate continuum approach. I could easily have seen it spinning away into its own subset of adventures starring David Bradley as the First Doctor, rather than David Bradley as William Hartnell's Doctor. The second volume less so, particularly with the efforts made towards The Barbarians and the Samurai for establishing authenticity. I haven't heard Tick-Tock World, but so far, this third volume feels as though it's made the transition across to something that features in that main continuity.
The two-piece format of historical coupled with a future/sideways is a good one. But I wonder how the content itself will change as time goes on and this team becomes more established.
|
|
|
Post by elkawho on Jan 31, 2019 13:28:14 GMT
Unusually for me, I completed both of these stories in single sittings, rather than breaking them up by disc. I did this for two very different reasons, as I shall outline. I listened to The Phoenicians in a single sitting because I was enjoying myself so much. I think this is one of the best historicals Big Finish have done. Maybe it's because the Hartnell years featured them so heavily on TV, but First Doctor historicals have a natural tendency to be quite good, and this one was no exception I listened to Tick-Tock World in a single sitting because I was hoping beyond hope that it might actually get interesting. It's rare for me to say this, but I was really bored with this story. It was trying to go for an emotional point but just kept failing to communicate it very well at all. And as for Carole Ann Ford's involvement, she almost needn't have bothered being there. This was very much a case of gimmick over story, I feel And even then, the gimmick didn't get pulled off in any meaningful way. I'm sad I'm so disappointed by this story, but then you can't win them all, can you? A very mixed set for me then - one brilliant, one... well, I'm probably going to be genuinely hard pressed to listen to it again (I can't believe I just wrote that!). I probably will at some point, but I'll be putting it off. I am in complete agreement. Loved The Phoenicians and the petulant royalty in the center of that story, but I really didn't like Tick-tock World. It got somewhat better with the last 2 episodes when Carol-Ann Ford shows up, but not enough and I found most of the story tedious. I didn't care about any of the guest characters and their respective fates left no impact on me at all.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Jan 31, 2019 19:10:58 GMT
Tick-Tock World That was an interesting one, essentially an expansion of the first episode of The Space Museum. Nice to see more of a focus on Susan and Carole Ann Ford’s inclusion was a nice touch. {Spoiler} There are some unanswered questions. What was the cause of time going so wrong on the world? Where did the Zero Cabinet come from?
The final reset button worked reasonably well, having been setup a fair bit.
|
|
|
Post by Digi on Feb 1, 2019 0:08:13 GMT
Well, I loved it. I've probably said this for all three volumes now, but to me it's all the more impressive how much I love this range given that I generally loathe recasts.
I enjoy the heck out of these stories. I think the casting is stellar. I think the sound design is just brilliantly evocative of the TV era.
The only thing I want from this range? More of it. Bring on Volume 4!
|
|
|
Post by IndieMacUser on Feb 4, 2019 18:58:11 GMT
|
|
|
Post by newt5996 on Feb 6, 2019 4:15:44 GMT
Tick-Tock World That was an interesting one, essentially an expansion of the first episode of The Space Museum. Nice to see more of a focus on Susan and Carole Ann Ford’s inclusion was a nice touch. {Spoiler} There are some unanswered questions. What was the cause of time going so wrong on the world? Where did the Zero Cabinet come from?
The final reset button worked reasonably well, having been setup a fair bit. I think Tick-Tock World is the type of story which can get away with those unanswered questions, but only just. Guy Adams did an excellent job recapturing the feel of stories like The Space Museum (that’s a compliment) and The Mind Robber and it really does work. The Phoenicians was also an amazing historical adventure as well, but it seems Tick-Tock World will be overshadowed a bit by it. Now if we could just announce a Volume 4 for January 2019 I will be very happy.
|
|
|
Post by themeddlingmonk on Feb 6, 2019 9:54:10 GMT
Tick-Tock World That was an interesting one, essentially an expansion of the first episode of The Space Museum. Nice to see more of a focus on Susan and Carole Ann Ford’s inclusion was a nice touch. {Spoiler} There are some unanswered questions. What was the cause of time going so wrong on the world? Where did the Zero Cabinet come from?
The final reset button worked reasonably well, having been setup a fair bit. I think Tick-Tock World is the type of story which can get away with those unanswered questions, but only just. Guy Adams did an excellent job recapturing the feel of stories like The Space Museum (that’s a compliment) and The Mind Robber and it really does work. The Phoenicians was also an amazing historical adventure as well, but it seems Tick-Tock World will be overshadowed a bit by it. Now if we could just announce a Volume 4 for January 2019 I will be very happy. You want a Fourth Volume to come out last month? Was it that good?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 7, 2019 5:19:50 GMT
Loved The Phoenicians hated Tick-Tock World.
|
|
|
Post by Who Review on Feb 7, 2019 8:17:33 GMT
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Feb 15, 2019 17:30:28 GMT
What a peculiar story The Phoenicians is. It doesn’t really do much and it seems to end in episode three, with the fourth being an epilogue of sorts.
Yet it’s really engaging! It’s a very detailed historical, very authentic to the era and it’s got a great guest cast. I think Pygmalion could’ve been fleshed out a little bit more, as he seems to just come and go throughout the story, but I do really like the OTT portrayal. I like how the story balances fact and myth too; that’s not always shown in an historical.
The main cast are all written perfectly and each one gets a moment that defines their character. I’m still not overly convinved with Powell and Grant, but they’re clearly portraying Barbara and Susan, even if they don’t sound like them. Glover is pretty good. Bradley is consistently good and when he hits it right, he’s brilliant. His interpretation of the First Doctor is lovely.
|
|
|
Post by shallacatop on Feb 18, 2019 13:03:11 GMT
Tick Tock World. Hmm; I don’t think it quite came together. The concept is sound, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.
I understand the comments about it not being all that authentic or traditional. That’s not an issue, but I think it stands out amongst this range, which has favoured being very faithful to the era on the whole. Tick Tock World is something which wouldn’t be out of place in the Companion Chronicles or Early Adventures, which are a little less traditional, the former being very character driven.
It’s part one of the The Space Museum or The Mind Robber stretched out to four parts. I did actually rather enjoy the first half of the story, I thought it was quite intriguing.
However, it amounts to nothing. The guest cast aren’t interesting and become the inevitable cannon fodder. Carole Ann Ford’s involvement is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. It’s a very slight appearance and due to the way it’s handled I don’t see why Claudia Grant couldn’t have done it. David Bradley and Jamie Glover play the other versions of their characters. The concept is barely explored, so I struggle to see the purpose of using her.
Personally, I’d have had Carole Ann playing an older Susan from the Time War. She could’ve escaped a battle using the zero cabinet and ended up on the planet. It’s all there in the story, it’s just a different, less satisfying approach was taken. It would’ve prevented the entire story being a big reset too. The best thing about the story is the older Susan exploring her past relationship with the Doctor. That could’ve been kept if they’d have gone with the Time War scenario and been more dramatically satisfying because it would’ve been the actual Susan expressing it.
The concept is there, but it just doesn’t feel satisfying or worthwhile.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 21, 2019 14:06:09 GMT
Tick Tock World. Hmm; I don’t think it quite came together. The concept is sound, but the execution leaves a lot to be desired. I understand the comments about it not being all that authentic or traditional. That’s not an issue, but I think it stands out amongst this range, which has favoured being very faithful to the era on the whole. Tick Tock World is something which wouldn’t be out of place in the Companion Chronicles or Early Adventures, which are a little less traditional, the former being very character driven. It’s part one of the The Space Museum or The Mind Robber stretched out to four parts. I did actually rather enjoy the first half of the story, I thought it was quite intriguing. However, it amounts to nothing. The guest cast aren’t interesting and become the inevitable cannon fodder. Carole Ann Ford’s involvement is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. It’s a very slight appearance and due to the way it’s handled I don’t see why Claudia Grant couldn’t have done it. David Bradley and Jamie Glover play the other versions of their characters. The concept is barely explored, so I struggle to see the purpose of using her. Personally, I’d have had Carole Ann playing an older Susan from the Time War. She could’ve escaped a battle using the zero cabinet and ended up on the planet. It’s all there in the story, it’s just a different, less satisfying approach was taken. It would’ve prevented the entire story being a big reset too. The best thing about the story is the older Susan exploring her past relationship with the Doctor. That could’ve been kept if they’d have gone with the Time War scenario and been more dramatically satisfying because it would’ve been the actual Susan expressing it. The concept is there, but it just doesn’t feel satisfying or worthwhile. Great idea about an older Time War Susan. So much better than what we got with this disappointing story.
|
|