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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 0:42:26 GMT
You know, when I was originally going to write this thread, I had a whole screed ready. I was going to go to town on the tired, lazy arguments of 'those fans', the ones eptomised by the Levines, the maulporrises, the B.T.s (Broadchurch sanctifies wemen, guys!) who see political boogeymen where there is simply a difference in opinion; About how phenomenally tone-deaf and disrespectful a sentence like some over-enthused positive twitter reactions to Jodie was equal to real lfie abuse and violence; how selling your merch on Ebay wouldn't change the Beeb's mind on anything; about how silly complaining about 'politics' is in a show that has villains like Daleks, Cybermen and Silurians.
I don't like being roped in to defend a Doctor and actress whom I haven't seen, and a showrunner whose plans I don't know, and yet, it kept happening. But you know what? I can't. I just can't anymore. I don't have it in me to get that kind of angry on geekdom anymore.
Instead, I will say this: these people serve as a reminder of what happens when you tie your identity, your sense of self-worth, to entertainment. When you confuse your voluntary purchase of goods with somehow said goods creators owing you a personal, individualized debt and a right to dictate the property's course, always expecting works of fiction to pat you on the head, say you're a good little boy for always buying paper and plastic, it can only lead to tears. These are people who have used a franchise all about courage, self-determination, hope and facing your fears, as an excuse to run away from their problems, their faults, their demons. Worse, they've taken those faults and amplified them as they shriek for clicks and views in tedious, tiresome diatribes in written or video form, reading into what isn't there. They never truly grew past hiding behind the sofa, in more ways than one.
The sad downside to Capaldi's era was it acted as validation to them: everything about how he was packaged and sold at first was meant to make these guys happy and give that sweet, sweet drug of validation and nostalgia. When Jodie came along, before they even saw a frame of performance or even knew who she actually was as an actress, they discounted her. They were never going to give her a chance because, apparently, whiney rainbow-haired college liberals were a bigger threat to Who's survival than declining ratings, poor marketing or a storytelling mentality that, again, had been leaning harder and harder on nostalgia and lore, driving away a casual audience that, like it or not, we need to keep having all our cool toys. Oh, the irony of hugboxes and safe spaces...
I think fandom is a wonderful, lovely, joyous thing. On this forum alone we have so many different, clever and drastically different people who all bring something interesting to the table. I think most here and elsewhere are either excited, curious or indifferent to what's going on and know where they stand. Some dislike Jodie for entirely understandable, informed reasons, even. That's healthy discussion and critical argument. Obviously, it shouldn't just be yes-men. But the people above are not that. Don't hate them: I don't. I pity them: maybe have not had the right person there to steer them to a better life philosophy, and this is the only way they can let out whatever 'it' may be. And I know they'll just dig deeper and deeper into that misguided anger until that's all that's left, but the optimist (or fool) in me hopes maybe, just maybe, without the show there for them anymore, maybe they can start down that new road. Or rewatch Who and actually listen this time.
Do I pretend to change minds or reach out to them with this? No. I just felt like getting this boulder, which had been growing for a while, off my chest before the Chibnall Marketing Machine starts going into overdrive next week and we can start talking about something meatier and, hopefully, far happier. He had my curiousity for months: let's see if the acne-faced kid from Open Air can earn my full interest.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 9:06:34 GMT
You seem to have forgotten all about Missy. Created for shock value only.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 9:13:44 GMT
You seem to have forgotten all about Missy. Created for shock value only. “Hmm, what should I moan about today?” *spins wheel, throws dart* “You forgot about... Missy!”
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 9:22:16 GMT
You seem to have forgotten all about Missy. Created for shock value only. “Hmm, what should I moan about today?” *spins wheel, throws dart* “You forgot about... Missy!” "Mhhh, Shall I agree, or disagree with him, today?" *Takes medication* "No, I'll belittle him!"
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 9:34:14 GMT
Ah, the joys.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 9:35:04 GMT
You seem to have forgotten all about Missy. Created for shock value only. No she wasn't.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 9:35:21 GMT
You seem to have forgotten all about Missy. Created for shock value only. And yet the marketing kept pushing how much she was like Delgado and Ainley and how her dynamic was going to be a throwback to said eras. Even Moffat namedropped the man with 'the rubbish beard' a handful of times.
And even then, when was shock value discussed in my post?
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 9:48:25 GMT
You seem to have forgotten all about Missy. Created for shock value only. And yet the marketing kept pushing how much she was like Delgado and Ainley and how her dynamic was going to be a throwback to said eras. Even Moffat namedropped the man with 'the rubbish beard' a handful of times.
And even then, when was shock value discussed in my post?
Not every fan was please with Missy, or the performance. Some where even "Extremist Fans".
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 9:49:21 GMT
You seem to have forgotten all about Missy. Created for shock value only. No she wasn't. Snogging the Doctor, and then telling him she was the Master. Definitely shock value.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 9:59:14 GMT
And yet the marketing kept pushing how much she was like Delgado and Ainley and how her dynamic was going to be a throwback to said eras. Even Moffat namedropped the man with 'the rubbish beard' a handful of times.
And even then, when was shock value discussed in my post?
Not every fan was please with Missy, or the performance. Some where even "Extremist Fans". Ok.
What's the relevance to a post that discusses detrimental relationships with media and breeding misplaced entitlement?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 9:59:21 GMT
Snogging the Doctor, and then telling him she was the Master. Definitely shock value. You didn't even read the opening post, did you?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 10:25:29 GMT
I think there's a person on this thread created for shock value only.....
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 10:29:46 GMT
Gents, I get there's fun in sport, but please, let's just not go there this time. I know it's very tempting (I've given in before certainly) but that just validates the attitude that I've railed against above.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Jul 14, 2018 14:51:23 GMT
I'm in total agreement with the original post: I get disappointed when a franchise (film, TV, audio, comics, books) becomes stale or "different" over time and it does make me feel jaded and angry. However, I'm tied up with at least 20 different stories that I can name off the top of my head so "dropping" one of them occasionally is a fleeting disappointment at worst because I have loads of other things to interest me and usually still have the story up until the point I lost interest. As an example, I've been a reader of Anne McCaffrey's Dragonrider books for over 30 years but I lost interest in them about the time that her son Todd started writing them. Guess what, though: I still love all the books up until that time and it doesn't stop me rereading them. I'm not that fussed that there's a whole set of books that I have't read because they just aren't my thing. The series as a whole isn't "dead" to me and I wouldn't get on social media and yell at Todd McCaffrey for taking things in a direction I didn't personally like. I also picked up Robert Jordan's Wheel Of Time novels when they came out but I got diminishing returns on that series after Volume 2 and when volume 4 turned into a retelling of Dune (boy masters a magic previously only used by women, discovers that he is the leader of an invincible desert tribe) I decided that it wasn't for me.
Life is too short to take things like entertainment too seriously. And I know that there are some people who take the line that their life holds so much drama that only this one thing is a decent escape for them and I really feel for those people but we are owed nothing by creators and producers of entertainment. It's all a chance and "not being entertained enough" is no excuse for some of the behaviour I've seen from so-called fans.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 15:59:09 GMT
Snogging the Doctor, and then telling him she was the Master. Definitely shock value. That was a great little moment to wrong-foot the Dr & the audience but I do not think she was created just for that purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 16:05:30 GMT
Snogging the Doctor, and then telling him she was the Master. Definitely shock value. That was a great little moment to wrong-foot the Dr & the audience but I do not think she was created just for that purpose. I think it’s criminal that she got to snog the Doctor yet Ainley didn’t.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 16:06:55 GMT
Too much of the negative debate makes me feel like going out to get a breath of fresh air, of which in a way I hope the forthcoming series will be in itself.
I enjoy positive, constructive discussion of the series, but the bitterness and perpetually critical viewpoints of some have the effect of tainting my interest in the programme at times. I think the biggest hurdle RTD had in 2005 was overcoming the public perception of the series, formed and coloured through a popular derogatory stereotype of it's 'fans'.
In summary, some out there such as on Twitter need to stop being such a Jerk as they damage the series reputation more than the faults they perceive on the screen.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 14, 2018 16:32:21 GMT
I have mixed views about the OP. Yes, arseholes are arseholes, but I think you have too narrow view of what fandom is. There is a place for negativity, though it may irritate you. There is a place for people who think the first Doctor worked for the CIA, or think the Doctor is like Father Christmas and Winnie-the-Pooh all rolled into one (I forget the exact quoet), or insist the Master and the Monk and the War Chief were all intended to be the same person and therefore are, though it may annoy me immensely.
I agree, nobody should have already irrevocably decided that the new series WILL or OUGHT to fail; but I don't agree with you on what you think the show is about, or how the Capaldi era was designed, or how people reacted to Jodie Whittaker's casting. People shouldn't be unreasonable, or cruel, but they're entitled to be sceptical.
Please remember, the man Chibnal himself rose to public attention wingeing about how the show wasn't good enough.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 18:17:51 GMT
What about those extremist fans who love the show, think everything is great about it and can't take constructive criticism?
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Post by muckypup on Jul 14, 2018 18:31:55 GMT
I am sorry but all this is just the flip side of the point you are going on about.
each to their own, everyone view point is valid...….like it or not.
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