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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 18:52:24 GMT
I have mixed views about the OP. Yes, arseholes are arseholes, but I think you have too narrow view of what fandom is. There is a place for negativity, though it may irritate you. There is a place for people who think the first Doctor worked for the CIA, or think the Doctor is like Father Christmas and Winnie-the-Pooh all rolled into one (I forget the exact quoet), or insist the Master and the Monk and the War Chief were all intended to be the same person and therefore are, though it may annoy me immensely. I agree, nobody should have already irrevocably decided that the new series WILL or OUGHT to fail; but I don't agree with you on what you think the show is about, or how the Capaldi era was designed, or how people reacted to Jodie Whittaker's casting. People shouldn't be unreasonable, or cruel, but they're entitled to be sceptical. Please remember, the man Chibnal himself rose to public attention wingeing about how the show wasn't good enough. But here's the thing: that negativity is productive because it's A) not born from genuine malice or mean-spiritedness and B) is part of entirely reasonable discussion. Arguing that One was CIA is different to reading some kind of evil force behind Jodie. The two are not really comparable. Also, ahrdly fair to hold that against Chibs: would you want to own up to that haircut?
I am curious what you think Who is. Not goading, I'm legitimately wondering.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 18:55:55 GMT
What about those extremist fans who love the show, think everything is great about it and can't take constructive criticism? They are a problem in their own way, but they're not the ones stirring trouble right now. Big difference between a guy who thinks Twin Dilemma was a perfect first Six story, and then someone who makes unfair assumptions about something they haven't seen and have limited information on.
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 19:00:37 GMT
What about those extremist fans who love the show, think everything is great about it and can't take constructive criticism? They are a problem in their own way, but they're not the ones stirring trouble right now. Big difference between a guy who thinks Twin Dilemma was a perfect first Six story, and then someone who makes unfair assumptions about something they haven't seen and have limited information on. Like your opinion of Jodie? When you've only seen a clip?
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 19:11:40 GMT
They are a problem in their own way, but they're not the ones stirring trouble right now. Big difference between a guy who thinks Twin Dilemma was a perfect first Six story, and then someone who makes unfair assumptions about something they haven't seen and have limited information on. Like your opinion of Jodie? When you've only seen a clip? Except I'm not making sweeping claims about the show's future or the intent of the creators. I only offer my opinion. I speak for me: I don't pretend to be the fandom's mouthpiece, unlike a certain older individual on twitter who said he stopped being a fan and 'that' was it, yet still goes on and on and on.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 14, 2018 20:06:51 GMT
What about those extremist fans who love the show, think everything is great about it and can't take constructive criticism? Why would anyone offer constructive criticism to a fan? What is the point? And when we get to a point where a fan's excessive love, positive vibes and passion for something becomes a downer, please let me know.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 20:06:57 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=g56AtSSqyLoThis is the greatest example of a possible "extremist fan". Showing an obvious bitterness towards the series, getting annoyed by the most obvious bland PR sentence imaginable and just showing their own insecurity's really. Some people, men and women, don't want a female doctor and that's fine. Technically this is sexism but nothing more than the sexism society has conditioned them to think just like how most people have some racist views or xenophobic views. Not by choice, its just a wiring thing passed down through generations and media influence and such. I wouldn't hold this to a person as I feel most people try to fight this "coding". What It is a problem are misogynists who hate women. This would be an extremist fan who's views are wrong and shouldn't be viewed with any worth. Of course this is unproveable however and as long as people can deny it will be baseless accusation. That being said id hope this a small percentage of people and from what i've saw I wouldn't lump the third doctor with theses people as is being implied. It seems He just doesn't want a female doctor and that's cool. It could even be argued that my youtuber I provided a link too is not an extremist. Its all a matter of perspective. Seriously tho I would much rather have a thread about whether the first doctor was in the cia rather than another thread about 13 and sexism and what not. Most people by now have either made up there mind or are going to wait till the series airs. That'll be about 3 months away. So just chill you know. we are going to get a brand new clip of the new series tomorrow that we can dissect and discuss it, hopefully itll be more positive than this realization thread (Of course I cant say whats a good topic to discuss or not, it would be hypocritical considering ive just typed a long message too on this thread. its just another of my opinions, Arent they amazing )
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 20:15:34 GMT
What about those extremist fans who love the show, think everything is great about it and can't take constructive criticism? Why would anyone offer constructive criticism to a fan? What is the point? And when we get to a point where a fan's excessive love, positive vibes and passion for something becomes a downer, please let me know.
Some extreme behavour there.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 20:21:48 GMT
Why would anyone offer constructive criticism to a fan? What is the point? And when we get to a point where a fan's excessive love, positive vibes and passion for something becomes a downer, please let me know.
Some extreme behavour there. Really? Mindless positivity ain't great, it's like od-ing on candy floss, but it's preferable to mindless pessimism.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 20:22:23 GMT
When you are in a Theatre, waiting for the stalls to fill, the curtain to rise and the play to start, you tend to feel a sense of anticipation, looking for signs that it will be worth seeing, from snippets in the souvenir programme booklet. You get yourself into a frame of mind that it's a good play/production before it starts and that your time will be rewarded.
If you sit there grumbling that it is miscast, that the playwright isn't to your taste, that it will be a waste of two hours of your time, then either you are a critic or you gain pleasure being dissatisfied with other peoples talent.
It is only natural that many are of a mind to judge favourably the new series before seeing it. Revise ones opinion afterwards by all means, but only after watching fully.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 14, 2018 20:26:39 GMT
There is being negative to just be negative. That isn't constructive. It just exists to bring other people down. We've had people like that on the board before and we may well have people on the board like that now. Engaging with people about something where there is a shared love and/or affection is one thing. I had lots of problems with the RTD era as well as the Moffat era. There were also a lot of things I liked & loved about the show. Certainly enough that I continue being a fan and I await with an open mind to see what Chris Chibnall's version of the show will be like. And if Doctor Who, or indeed any show, ceases to entertain me, I'll just check out. I'll always still love the stuff that I loved and new episodes, characters or concepts that are developed do nothing to diminish my love of what came before. What I won't do is take it personally and I won't try to tear down someone else who has come to the show fresh and loves the new Doctor and the newly reinvented show. Shows, especially long-running shows, sometime reach a point where it ceases to be the thing for me. And that is okay. I'm mature enough to let go and I don't take it personally. The late and not at all lamented Paul Morris 1977 once said that Doctor Who ceased to be any good in 1983. That is 35 years ago. Yet here he was, still watching & hating, constantly trying to tear down other people and constantly trying to derail threads just because he no longer enjoyed the show. People like that are just sad. Pathetic. And they really should find something else that brings them joy.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 14, 2018 20:30:28 GMT
Some extreme behavour there. Really? Mindless positivity ain't great, it's like od-ing on candy floss, but it's preferable to mindless pessimism.
Exactly. Give me someone who is joyful & happy over mindless pessimism and negativity anytime.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 20:35:29 GMT
www.youtube.com/watch?v=g56AtSSqyLoThis is the greatest example of a possible "extremist fan". Showing an obvious bitterness towards the series, getting annoyed by the most obvious bland PR sentence imaginable and just showing their own insecurity's really. Some people, men and women, don't want a female doctor and that's fine. Technically this is sexism but nothing more than the sexism society has conditioned them to think just like how most people have some racist views or xenophobic views. Not by choice, its just a wiring thing passed down through generations and media influence and such. I wouldn't hold this to a person as I feel most people try to fight this "coding". What It is a problem are misogynists who hate women. This would be an extremist fan who's views are wrong and shouldn't be viewed with any worth. Of course this is unproveable however and as long as people can deny it will be baseless accusation. That being said id hope this a small percentage of people and from what i've saw I wouldn't lump the third doctor with theses people as is being implied. It seems He just doesn't want a female doctor and that's cool. It could even be argued that my youtuber I provided a link too is not an extremist. Its all a matter of perspective. Seriously tho I would much rather have a thread about whether the first doctor was in the cia rather than another thread about 13 and sexism and what not. Most people by now have either made up there mind or are going to wait till the series airs. That'll be about 3 months away. So just chill you know. we are going to get a brand new clip of the new series tomorrow that we can dissect and discuss it, hopefully itll be more positive than this realization thread (Of course I cant say whats a good topic to discuss or not, it would be hypocritical considering ive just typed a long message too on this thread. its just another of my opinions, Arent they amazing ) This guy telling people to “get some perspective” over some PR quotes and then screaming at thin air because of “ideological massacres” is both concerning and very very funny. “He did this for ideological reasons”- calm down mate, Chibnall’s a show runner, not a sodding communist.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 20:39:52 GMT
This guy telling people to “get some perspective” over some PR quotes and then screaming at thin air because of “ideological massacres” is both concerning and very very funny. “He did this for ideological reasons”- calm down mate, Chibnall’s a show runner, not a sodding communist. Wonder what he'd make of Mac Hulke...
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 20:43:15 GMT
There is being negative to just be negative. That isn't constructive. It just exists to bring other people down. We've had people like that on the board before and we may well have people on the board like that now. And here's the thing: Criticism is not the same thing as negativity. Brutal honesty is not the same thing as negativity. Difference of opinion and healthy debate not the same thing as negativity. It can be a component, but the goal with all of these is to be productive.
How is shrieking 'get your sjw feminist agenda out or I'll sell my dvds' actually supposed to help Chris write a better show? How can that help create better drama, better characters, more resonant themes?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 21:11:44 GMT
It’s also worth pointing out that it’s very easy pointing out the flaws in something once it’s finished. If you’re actually making something you typically have a general feeling of how it’s going, but you have no idea how the product is going to turn out. You can have a disaster in production but turn out something great, or have a smooth production and turn out something middling. It’s easy to obsessively criticise if you’re a viewer and moan about “politics” and “agendas” etc, but the fact of the matter is that the people in charge are only trying to do a good job, and the viewers criticising everything are, 99% of the time, very, VERY wrong.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 14, 2018 21:46:45 GMT
Does anyone think it odd though that the PR quotes seem designed to promote the extreme reaction?
"It was time it was done" or "The show was in Danger of becoming irrelevant" whether you agree or not those are extremely provocative statements.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 21:50:49 GMT
Does anyone think it odd though that the PR quotes seem designed to promote the extreme reaction? "It was time it was done" or "The show was in Danger of becoming irrelevant" whether you agree or not those are extremely provocative statements. Regards mark687 I didn’t think they were provocative at all because I thought they were all correct to be honest.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 22:00:37 GMT
Does anyone think it odd though that the PR quotes seem designed to promote the extreme reaction? "It was time it was done" or "The show was in Danger of becoming irrelevant" whether you agree or not those are extremely provocative statements. Regards mark687 In context, not really. And considering where the ratings have been, you can't exactly say Chris is wildly off anyway.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 14, 2018 22:04:43 GMT
Does anyone think it odd though that the PR quotes seem designed to promote the extreme reaction? "It was time it was done" or "The show was in Danger of becoming irrelevant" whether you agree or not those are extremely provocative statements. Regards mark687 I didn’t think they were provocative at all because I thought they were all correct to be honest. See I don't object to it being done, but the show was in danger of becoming irrelevant without it really?
Regards
mark687
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Post by mark687 on Jul 14, 2018 22:10:02 GMT
Does anyone think it odd though that the PR quotes seem designed to promote the extreme reaction? "It was time it was done" or "The show was in Danger of becoming irrelevant" whether you agree or not those are extremely provocative statements. Regards mark687 In context, not really. And considering where the ratings have been, you can't exactly say Chris is wildly off anyway.
But that shouldn't solved by the gender change solely surely?
Hopefully more easily accessible plots would be involved also.
Regards
mark687
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