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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 22:11:17 GMT
Hopefully more easily accessible plots would be involved also.
Regards
mark687
I certainly expect so.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 14, 2018 22:12:16 GMT
Does anyone think it odd though that the PR quotes seem designed to promote the extreme reaction? "It was time it was done" or "The show was in Danger of becoming irrelevant" whether you agree or not those are extremely provocative statements. Regards mark687 In context, not really. And considering where the ratings have been, you can't exactly say Chris is wildly off anyway.
I agree, taken in context, not really. The show was in Danger of becoming irrelevant, is true of any long running show. I mean how many shows simply outlive their natural lifespan and become exercises in blandness? The beauty of Doctor Who remains that change is written into the show's creative DNA. The show can change to adapt to the times because it is constructed that way. It is what makes the extreme reactions from certain sectors of fandom all the more puzzling to me. Part of the allure of the show, besides that it can go anywhere and be anything, is that radical change is one of the foundations of the series. I would expect long term fans to understand & embrace that. So many of these extreme fans seem to view the show's greatest strength as a weakness they are unable to stomach. Doctor Who should always be a show about growth, understanding & moving forward but if a certain section of fandom had their way the show would be much smaller. Much more static. None of this says Chibnall's version will succeed but it does say that as caretaker of the show he has a responsibility to aim for the stars. Certain fans would limit him to aiming for Croydon.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 22:19:19 GMT
Does anyone think it odd though that the PR quotes seem designed to promote the extreme reaction? "It was time it was done" or "The show was in Danger of becoming irrelevant" whether you agree or not those are extremely provocative statements. Regards mark687 I didn’t think they were provocative at all because I thought they were all correct to be honest. I agree. There's only so long the show could go on just having white males, usually middle class, in the role. It would turn into a period piece. Just about all the major franchises have diversified and Chibnall is right - Star Wars, Star Trek...they did something about it before Who. Game Of Thrones is the biggest show on Earth and the women certainly lead the way there. I'd maybe see the point of the moaning if it led to having a small pool of actors to choose from meaning a subpar bit of casting foisted on us - but even if Chibnall only ever wanted a woman...that's half the members of Equity still to consider. Not exactly restrictive. My main argument - that I've said on here since we debated this well before Jodie was cast - is why should a young girl grow up knowing she can't be The Doctor...but she can be rescued by him? You'll get the "...but Romana..." "...but River..." arguments - but they were sidekicks. Who wants their daughter to grow up knowing the glass ceiling to be a sidekick is there? You also get the "But The Doctor is one of the only male heroes boys have not to be violent" argument. Well....he's killed a LOT for a non-violent character and even if I accept the premise - why can't a generation of young kids of both genders grow up with a woman as their hero? I've never heard a good convincing reason why the change shouldn't happen. I have seen grown men - including on here - say they're throwin all their classic Who DVDs out in protest. I have seen people slagging Jodie every time she's mentioned on the FB or Twitter Who pages. I have seen people say "Not sexist but...." then proceed with massively sexist diatribes. I have seen many say "that's me done..." only to post about it over and over. I have seen a poster here say they were skipping Jodie's era then go on to say they wrote an autograph request a few days later after deciding they quite liked the idea. As for this "Well, if I can't hate her in advance you can't like her" thing is another ridiculous notion. People love this show and want to believe. I'd rather have the hope and be wrong than be a torn-faced hater from day 1.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 22:25:36 GMT
In context, not really. And considering where the ratings have been, you can't exactly say Chris is wildly off anyway.
But that shouldn't solved by the gender change solely surely?
Hopefully more easily accessible plots would be involved also.
Regards
mark687
Ummm, but you can do that too. You can have this change - and have accessible plots. It's 2018 - the show reliant on change in the lead couldn't be stagnant forever picking one gender, one race. It's not who the culture is anymore, it's not what Britain is. The Doctor can be anyone - as long as it's a male 27-55, white, middle class preffered - the occasional Scot tolerated. Irish and Welsh need not apply. I don't even think it's a radical idea - Sydney Newman was for it and he was a product of 50s tv. Surely we're not that far behind Sydney?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 22:29:35 GMT
This guy telling people to “get some perspective” over some PR quotes and then screaming at thin air because of “ideological massacres” is both concerning and very very funny. “He did this for ideological reasons”- calm down mate, Chibnall’s a show runner, not a sodding communist. Wonder what he'd make of Mac Hulke... Or Cartmel saying he wanted to bring down the Tory government in his interview
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 22:46:12 GMT
But that shouldn't solved by the gender change solely surely?
Hopefully more easily accessible plots would be involved also.
Regards
mark687
Ummm, but you can do that too. You can have this change - and have accessible plots. It's 2018 - the show reliant on change in the lead couldn't be stagnant forever picking one gender, one race. It's not who the culture is anymore, it's not what Britain is. The Doctor can be anyone - as long as it's a male 27-55, white, middle class preffered - the occasional Scot tolerated. Irish and Welsh need not apply. I don't even think it's a radical idea - Sydney Newman was for it and he was a product of 50s tv. Surely we're not that far behind Sydney? Exactly. & my first thought when watching her first appearance on screen in the teaser after the tennis was...at last!!!
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Post by mark687 on Jul 14, 2018 22:52:00 GMT
But that shouldn't solved by the gender change solely surely?
Hopefully more easily accessible plots would be involved also.
Regards
mark687
Ummm, but you can do that too. You can have this change - and have accessible plots. It's 2018 - the show reliant on change in the lead couldn't be stagnant forever picking one gender, one race. It's not who the culture is anymore, it's not what Britain is. The Doctor can be anyone - as long as it's a male 27-55, white, middle class preffered - the occasional Scot tolerated. Irish and Welsh need not apply. I don't even think it's a radical idea - Sydney Newman was for it and he was a product of 50s tv. Surely we're not that far behind Sydney? I saying as I keep saying it should be a combination of both the gender change and good stories. and as you bring it up the implication of the soundbites is even worse, Female was the only way to go and not a Male of different age, cultural of racial origin or physical ability?
Regards
mark687
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 23:03:25 GMT
I didn't watch the last two series of Stargate SG1. I didn't watch the last four series of Two and a Half Men. I've stopped watching NCIS. So, here's a question - Why am I not allowed to say that I'm not going to watch series 11?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 23:15:06 GMT
Ummm, but you can do that too. You can have this change - and have accessible plots. It's 2018 - the show reliant on change in the lead couldn't be stagnant forever picking one gender, one race. It's not who the culture is anymore, it's not what Britain is. The Doctor can be anyone - as long as it's a male 27-55, white, middle class preffered - the occasional Scot tolerated. Irish and Welsh need not apply. I don't even think it's a radical idea - Sydney Newman was for it and he was a product of 50s tv. Surely we're not that far behind Sydney? I saying as I keep saying it should be a combination of both the gender change and good stories. and as you bring it up the implication of the soundbites is even worse, Female was the only way to go and not a Male of different age, cultural of racial origin or physical ability?
Regards
mark687
Not to be rude Mark but the “as long as there are good stories as well” point is pretty much moot. They’re not gonna go out of their way to make bad stories are they? And I don’t think that reading into those soundbites accomplish a lot tbh. I think a year on from the announcement you and others here should be comfortable with the fact that they cast a woman because Chibnall is the showrunner and he wanted to, as opposed to being because women are great and men are trash, or something.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 23:16:09 GMT
I didn't watch the last two series of Stargate SG1. I didn't watch the last four series of Two and a Half Men. I've stopped watching NCIS. So, here's a question - Why am I not allowed to say that I'm not going to watch series 11? ...you are. It’s just when you slag off series 11 before you even know anything beyond surface level details that people get annoyed.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 14, 2018 23:21:26 GMT
I saying as I keep saying it should be a combination of both the gender change and good stories. and as you bring it up the implication of the soundbites is even worse, Female was the only way to go and not a Male of different age, cultural of racial origin or physical ability?
Regards
mark687
Not to be rude Mark but the “as long as there are good stories as well” point is pretty much moot. They’re not gonna go out of their way to make bad stories are they? And I don’t think that reading into those soundbites accomplish a lot tbh. I think a year on from the announcement you and others here should be comfortable with the fact that they cast a woman because Chibnall is the showrunner and he wanted to, as opposed to being because women are great and men are trash, or something. OK Sorry if I caused offence.
Regards
mark687
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 14, 2018 23:24:27 GMT
I didn't watch the last two series of Stargate SG1. I didn't watch the last four series of Two and a Half Men. I've stopped watching NCIS. So, here's a question - Why am I not allowed to say that I'm not going to watch series 11? Nobody says you can't. You're the one coming onto these threads and still going on about it.
Be like Timelord007: he's not watching, so he stopped commenting.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 23:26:38 GMT
Not to be rude Mark but the “as long as there are good stories as well” point is pretty much moot. They’re not gonna go out of their way to make bad stories are they? And I don’t think that reading into those soundbites accomplish a lot tbh. I think a year on from the announcement you and others here should be comfortable with the fact that they cast a woman because Chibnall is the showrunner and he wanted to, as opposed to being because women are great and men are trash, or something. OK Sorry if I caused offence.
Regards
mark687
No offence caused 😊
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 23:27:00 GMT
I didn't watch the last two series of Stargate SG1. I didn't watch the last four series of Two and a Half Men. I've stopped watching NCIS. So, here's a question - Why am I not allowed to say that I'm not going to watch series 11? ...you are. It’s just when you slag off series 11 before you even know anything beyond surface level details that people get annoyed. I've never slagged off Jodie. I have criticised the casting of a female Doctor (as have others) and I've fairly criticised Chibnalls CV. His Who episodes haven't sparkled. So, in conclusion, I'm not allowed to "slag off" a series that we know very little about, but others are allowed to praise something that they also know very little about? Double standards?
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Post by thethirddoctor on Jul 14, 2018 23:32:35 GMT
I didn't watch the last two series of Stargate SG1. I didn't watch the last four series of Two and a Half Men. I've stopped watching NCIS. So, here's a question - Why am I not allowed to say that I'm not going to watch series 11? Nobody says you can't. You're the one coming onto these threads and still going on about it.
Be like Timelord007: he's not watching, so he stopped commenting.
His last comment concerning Nuwho was only on June 9th. He may comment later.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 23:57:05 GMT
Ummm, but you can do that too. You can have this change - and have accessible plots. It's 2018 - the show reliant on change in the lead couldn't be stagnant forever picking one gender, one race. It's not who the culture is anymore, it's not what Britain is. The Doctor can be anyone - as long as it's a male 27-55, white, middle class preffered - the occasional Scot tolerated. Irish and Welsh need not apply. I don't even think it's a radical idea - Sydney Newman was for it and he was a product of 50s tv. Surely we're not that far behind Sydney? I saying as I keep saying it should be a combination of both the gender change and good stories. and as you bring it up the implication of the soundbites is even worse, Female was the only way to go and not a Male of different age, cultural of racial origin or physical ability?
Regards
mark687
But then you could just as easily say "So they cast a black man - why not a woman?" - he can't cast a Doctor who is all things to all men...and women at once. And we just went from the youngest Doctor ever cast in Matt to the oldest when he left in Capaldi...not sure age would have really signalled much of a change...
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Post by mark687 on Jul 15, 2018 0:01:03 GMT
I saying as I keep saying it should be a combination of both the gender change and good stories. and as you bring it up the implication of the soundbites is even worse, Female was the only way to go and not a Male of different age, cultural of racial origin or physical ability?
Regards
mark687
But then you could just as easily say "So they cast a black man - why not a woman?" - he can't cast a Doctor who is all things to all men...and women at once. And we just went from the youngest Doctor ever cast in Matt to the oldest when he left in Capaldi...not sure age would have really signalled much of a change... Ok points taken
Regards
mark687
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jul 15, 2018 0:28:15 GMT
You also get the "But The Doctor is one of the only male heroes boys have not to be violent" argument. Well....he's killed a LOT for a non-violent character and even if I accept the premise - why can't a generation of young kids of both genders grow up with a woman as their hero? This one that's been nagging at me for a while. A) because as pointed out, the Doctor can and has fought and even killed on many occassions. 7 did so loud and proud, while 3 loved showing off alien kung fu. B) There's plenty of smart male role models in kid-oriented media: MCU and DC all have heroes who are scientists, engineers, doctors or just geniuses. They may fight but they usually figure out the problem with their heads first. Plus, Captain America and Black Panther: both incredibly noble, wise, positive masculine role models who stand for mroe than mindless violence.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jul 15, 2018 3:10:56 GMT
As a fan since the 4th Doctor era, I can honestly say I am excited to see what will happen in episode 1. Mr Chibnall knows the claws will be out for him so he will most likely just do what he wants to do anyway. Damned if you do damned if you don't, damned if you will and damned if you won't. I will hold my full opinion until after the 1st episode, and yes i did see the leaked clip on bookface.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 15, 2018 3:27:50 GMT
As a fan since the 4th Doctor era, I can honestly say I am excited to see what will happen in episode 1. Mr Chibnall knows the claws will be out for him so he will most likely just do what he wants to do anyway. Damned if you do damned if you don't, damned if you will and damned if you won't. I will hold my full opinion until after the 1st episode, and yes i did see the leaked clip on bookface. And that is how he should make the show. He can’t make the show the fans want, he has to make the best possible version of the show that he would want to watch.
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