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Post by doctorkernow on Dec 4, 2020 3:02:11 GMT
Hello again.
Ho hum... An extremist fan is unfortunately not going to be persuaded by reasoned argument. Neither do they have the well-developed sense of humour of Mr Patel.
I really am surprised that Vinay bothered to reply to this person who obviously was attempting to stir things up.
I am glad that despite all the vitriol, Mr Chibnall still keeps going. I suspect what keeps him going is, "I have the keys to the TARDIS and you don't so you can fling whatever you like at me. I'll just go off and plan where the Doctor is going next. So long troll...." 🙂
There is nothing wrong with not liking something and questioning narrative or production choices. My favourite reviewer is Stubagful. He's irreverent but he gives interesting reasons and analysis and makes silly daft observations too. He knows that his review is purely his opinion and all are free to disagree with him.
This is a world away from the hatred and bile spewed forth from the usual suspects.
Everyone has a right to an opinion. What they do not have a right to do is insult,belittle or make personal hateful attacks on someone with a different viewpoint. I know,preaching to the converted here.
Dr Who is a programme that celebrates diversity and fun and adventure and people and above all kindness. Enjoy it, don't enjoy it. I do wish, people would think before they posted any comment anywhere.
Anyway, I understand there's a bunch of Daleks coming our way soon. There's lovely now...
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Post by project37 on Dec 4, 2020 12:50:46 GMT
That individual's exchange with a show writer was disgraceful.
I had my own realization about Extremist Fans across several of the things I enjoy (Doctor Who, Star Wars, Marvel Comics). Sure, they claim to love something that celebrates infinite storytelling potential only to then they take this weirdly proprietorial gate-keeping attitude when it goes outside their own comfort zone. But more importantly, they crave attention. They look to pick fights and have zero interest in conversation. Making these ridiculous long rants on YouTube for the sake of clicks, posting obnoxious comments about creators (sometimes directly to them, as we see above!), crossing their arms and grumbling as self-appointed victims/"guardians" of entertainment that they feel has betrayed them. The thing that they loved has moved forward, so they somehow feel threatened.
It's pointless to engage with people like that. Speaking for myself, I found it better to take myself out of the equation. There are so many positive DW fans on Twitter, creating great content or just enjoying fun conversation. Nobody blindly likes all of DW (nor do they pretend to), but they also find a way to make DW content for your feed that you'll enjoy. Here are some that are worth checking out. I don't know them personally (except for Jess), but they make DW Twitter a better place:
Sophie Iles (BF writer and talented artist)
Pip Madeley (ridiculous and charming DW humor)
Gav Rymill (cool visuals and behind-the-scenes tech info)
Quiz of Rassilon (this is an amazing virtual event that happens every month - it's such a joyous celebration of DW, highly recommended)
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Post by commonman on Dec 4, 2020 13:49:23 GMT
That reminds me, do we have any news about Patel's SciFi series? Last time I heard about it, covid was not really a thing.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 4, 2020 14:18:37 GMT
That reminds me, do we have any news about Patel's SciFi series? Last time I heard about it, covid was not really a thing. Likely still in development. If they had plans to go further, covid likely knocked them out - speaking from what I'm working on, we were set to pitch to a major broadcaster this year, only to have it get knocked back to autumn 2021, as that's when they would start commissioning again.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2020 16:17:20 GMT
I have said it before on here, and I'll say it again. Watch what you enjoy, don't watch it if you don't. Its a simple enough rule and there is more than enough choice out there to like. Appreciate that others still like what you do not. Insulting someone because they haven't made it 'your way' is like the most obnoxious type of restaurant diner. It reminds me of an article I read recently about Rex Harrison, who made it a lifetimes hobby to insult waiters and chef's, getting barred from many an establishment. He even got thumped by a waiter when in officers uniform during WWII.
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Post by doctorkernow on Dec 4, 2020 20:26:44 GMT
Hello again.
Dangerous hobby insulting waiters and chefs, could lead to all sorts of mischief. Reckless Rex, very reckless...
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 14:54:13 GMT
A good point here about the damage being done, not by the current series, but by the 'fans', to the brand. All a bit sad and bitter really:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 15:04:15 GMT
A good point here about the damage being done, not by the current series, but by the 'fans', to the brand. All a bit sad and bitter really: As Oliver Hardy once said, 'T'was ever thus.'
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 15:24:27 GMT
A good point here about the damage being done, not by the current series, but by the 'fans', to the brand. All a bit sad and bitter really:
As Oliver Hardy once said, 'T'was ever thus.' Do you remember a show Phil Schofield used to host on BBC Children's TV around 1987 where they used to preview shows with a group of kids. He used to regularly have to 'talk up' Doctor Who with the audience, such as introducing the cleaner robots from Paradise Towers. He used to forewarn them patronisingly that Doctor Who was going to get 'scary' again and that these were probably going to catch on like the Daleks. The young audience just sniggered with embarrassment. He asked them once 'who watches Doctor Who?' A chubby kid with glasses was the only one to put his hand up. Once he led a discussion on the show, and one kid contributed that his mam said that its fans were weirdos and that he shouldn't watch it therefore. That was a low point for me, on par with what peers thought of me being a Doctor Who fan at the time. I used to wear an early 1960's 'Grandad coat' or two, as was the fashion with The Smiths and Morrisey at the time, but they just called it my 'Doctor Who coat'. Ahh - to think it was 'cool wiv da kids' again a few years back....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 15:42:51 GMT
As Oliver Hardy once said, 'T'was ever thus.' Do you remember a show Phil Schofield used to host on BBC Children's TV around 1987 where they used to preview shows with a group of kids. He used to regularly have to 'talk up' Doctor Who with the audience, such as introducing the cleaner robots from Paradise Towers. He used to forewarn them patronisingly that Doctor Who was going to get 'scary' again and that these were probably going to be catch on like the Daleks. The young audience just sniggered with embarrassment. He asked them once 'who watches Doctor Who?' A chubby kid with glasses was the only one to put his hand up. Once he lead discussion on the show, and one kid contributed that his mam said that its fans were weirdos and that he shouldn't watch it therefore. That was a low point for me, on par with what peers thought of me being a Doctor Who fan at the time. I used to wear an early 1960's 'Grandad coat' or two, as was the fashion with The Smiths and Morrisey at the time, buy they just called it my 'Doctor Who coat'. Ahh - to think it was 'cool wiv da kids' again a few years back.... Would that have been called 'Take Two' or something like that? I remember the show but sadly not the edition you mention - it would be nice if it was an extra on the Series 24 Blu Ray!
I think the media likes to portray Doctor Who fans as 'nerds' or whatever, because that's what seems to be expected. That said, examples like the tweets posted above don't exactly help redress the balance. For a while the show was 'cool', and I think it still has some of that now, but its star has faded generally, I'd say. My nephew, to whom I sometimes look to summarise the feelings of the young on certain subjects, feels that the 'rot' started with the latter Matt Smith series and despite a flurry of interest in the first female Doctor, has never really recovered.
However popular the show is with the general audience, there'll always be the keyboard critics, the organised YouTube disapporovalists, the 'Twitter-azzi', if you like, and it seems they are becoming difficult to ignore - but still I try!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 16:08:31 GMT
Do you remember a show Phil Schofield used to host on BBC Children's TV around 1987 where they used to preview shows with a group of kids. He used to regularly have to 'talk up' Doctor Who with the audience, such as introducing the cleaner robots from Paradise Towers. He used to forewarn them patronisingly that Doctor Who was going to get 'scary' again and that these were probably going to be catch on like the Daleks. The young audience just sniggered with embarrassment. He asked them once 'who watches Doctor Who?' A chubby kid with glasses was the only one to put his hand up. Once he lead discussion on the show, and one kid contributed that his mam said that its fans were weirdos and that he shouldn't watch it therefore. That was a low point for me, on par with what peers thought of me being a Doctor Who fan at the time. I used to wear an early 1960's 'Grandad coat' or two, as was the fashion with The Smiths and Morrisey at the time, buy they just called it my 'Doctor Who coat'. Ahh - to think it was 'cool wiv da kids' again a few years back.... Would that have been called 'Take Two' or something like that? I remember the show but sadly not the edition you mention - it would be nice if it was an extra on the Series 24 Blu Ray!
I think the media likes to portray Doctor Who fans as 'nerds' or whatever, because that's what seems to be expected. That said, examples like the tweets posted above don't exactly help redress the balance. For a while the show was 'cool', and I think it still has some of that now, but its star has faded generally, I'd say. My nephew, to whom I sometimes look to summarise the feelings of the young on certain subjects, feels that the 'rot' started with the latter Matt Smith series and despite a flurry of interest in the first female Doctor, has never really recovered.
However popular the show is with the general audience, there'll always be the keyboard critics, the organised YouTube disapporovalists, the 'Twitter-azzi', if you like, and it seems they are becoming difficult to ignore - but still I try!
You were right - it was called Take Two (had a check on his wiki entry). I have been wondering whether the Doctor Who segments may see the light of day. Unfortunately they show the series as being in the doldrums as per other clips of the time such as Open Air and Did You See? but I would like to see them in context as with the 'what the papers said' mini documentaries they have done. I maintain that it really should not matter what older fans think of the current iterations of the show. What counts is whether young viewers are into it. They are good judges of quality and if they are watching it by choice, then their parents, or grandparents or other carers will watch it too and no doubt find much to like. That's the way the show has always pulled in older viewers in my view. I care not whether the current show is my cup of tea. So long as young viewers, its core demographic, like it, that's fine by me. If it has the younger audience on board, it takes care of itself.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 26, 2021 17:03:10 GMT
A good point here about the damage being done, not by the current series, but by the 'fans', to the brand. As Oliver Hardy once said, 'T'was ever thus.' These Doctor Who 'fans' would give extremists a bad name!
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Aug 30, 2021 13:10:41 GMT
So I toyed with bringing this thread back a bunch of times, given various incidents on fan twitter (including an appaling thing done to the memory of a Classic Who actor by an avowed NMD, but I won't bring it up because it's... revolting) but I kept going 'this is just repeating myself. What am I actually adding new here?'
However, a running topic of discussion vis-a-vis the new creative team, and williamsfan's thread about fandoms did prompt something. See, I've seen chatter that the next showrunner and Doctor are going to be a prestige act, big names in the industry to sure up the brand domestically and get the reactionary media off the show's back. In that scenario, someone like say a Sally Wainwright or a Jed Mercurio, along with a known collaborator (Suranne Jones for W, Vicky McLure for M, as an example) makes a lot of sense. However, while I don't doubt a team like that could make a good, nay great, show, I think the BBC are kidding themselves about the latter. At best, they're delaying the inevitable: the outrage machine will go after the new guy, no matter who they are, and just like now, once that gets back to the tabloids, we're back to the same 'woke Doctor Who hated by fans' nonsense we've had to deal with for the last couple of years. Even if S14 was the best ever series of Who, like an entire series of Heaven Sents, Dalek and Diodati-level show, these guys' entire business model is being angry and hating things. They wouldn't acknowledge how good the show would be, because it doesn't fit their narrative. They will still insists it's bad or mediocre at most and you're going to see Surane in the thumbnails just like how Jodie has been used.
From my POV, the BBC needs to rethink how it not only protects the people working on the show, but also how it deals with the raging volcano that is social media and the online space. They need to get better at getting on top of things before they lose control and let grifters manipulate the narrative and traffic around the show.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2021 17:12:38 GMT
So I toyed with bringing this thread back a bunch of times, given various incidents on fan twitter (including an appaling thing done to the memory of a Classic Who actor by an avowed NMD, but I won't bring it up because it's... revolting) but I kept going 'this is just repeating myself. What am I actually adding new here?' However, a running topic of discussion vis-a-vis the new creative team, and williamsfan's thread about fandoms did prompt something. See, I've seen chatter that the next showrunner and Doctor are going to be a prestige act, big names in the industry to sure up the brand domestically and get the reactionary media off the show's back. In that scenario, someone like say a Sally Wainwright or a Jed Mercurio, along with a known collaborator (Suranne Jones for W, Vicky McLure for M, as an example) makes a lot of sense. However, while I don't doubt a team like that could make a good, nay great, show, I think the BBC are kidding themselves about the latter. At best, they're delaying the inevitable: the outrage machine will go after the new guy, no matter who they are, and just like now, once that gets back to the tabloids, we're back to the same 'woke Doctor Who hated by fans' nonsense we've had to deal with for the last couple of years. Even if S14 was the best ever series of Who, like an entire series of Heaven Sents, Dalek and Diodati-level show, these guys' entire business model is being angry and hating things. They wouldn't acknowledge how good the show would be, because it doesn't fit their narrative. They will still insists it's bad or mediocre at most and you're going to see Surane in the thumbnails just like how Jodie has been used. From my POV, the BBC needs to rethink how it not only protects the people working on the show, but also how it deals with the raging volcano that is social media and the online space. They need to get better at getting on top of things before they lose control and let grifters manipulate the narrative and traffic around the show. NMD? Sorry, Google is telling me this stands for Neuro-Muscular Disease, but I suspect you mean something else
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Post by The Brigadier on Aug 30, 2021 17:14:45 GMT
So I toyed with bringing this thread back a bunch of times, given various incidents on fan twitter (including an appaling thing done to the memory of a Classic Who actor by an avowed NMD, but I won't bring it up because it's... revolting) but I kept going 'this is just repeating myself. What am I actually adding new here?' However, a running topic of discussion vis-a-vis the new creative team, and williamsfan's thread about fandoms did prompt something. See, I've seen chatter that the next showrunner and Doctor are going to be a prestige act, big names in the industry to sure up the brand domestically and get the reactionary media off the show's back. In that scenario, someone like say a Sally Wainwright or a Jed Mercurio, along with a known collaborator (Suranne Jones for W, Vicky McLure for M, as an example) makes a lot of sense. However, while I don't doubt a team like that could make a good, nay great, show, I think the BBC are kidding themselves about the latter. At best, they're delaying the inevitable: the outrage machine will go after the new guy, no matter who they are, and just like now, once that gets back to the tabloids, we're back to the same 'woke Doctor Who hated by fans' nonsense we've had to deal with for the last couple of years. Even if S14 was the best ever series of Who, like an entire series of Heaven Sents, Dalek and Diodati-level show, these guys' entire business model is being angry and hating things. They wouldn't acknowledge how good the show would be, because it doesn't fit their narrative. They will still insists it's bad or mediocre at most and you're going to see Surane in the thumbnails just like how Jodie has been used. From my POV, the BBC needs to rethink how it not only protects the people working on the show, but also how it deals with the raging volcano that is social media and the online space. They need to get better at getting on top of things before they lose control and let grifters manipulate the narrative and traffic around the show. NMD? Sorry, Google is telling me this stands for Neuro-Muscular Disease, but I suspect you mean something else Try 'Not My Doctor'.
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 6, 2021 10:13:02 GMT
Honestly seeing this thread i find myself wondering why i want to be a fan of this franchise anymore or interact with the fandomk
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Post by The Brigadier on Sept 6, 2021 12:18:03 GMT
Honestly seeing this thread i find myself wondering why i want to be a fan of this franchise anymore or interact with the fandomk Because an extremist minority doesn't represent the overall majority?
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Post by theillusiveman on Sept 6, 2021 13:25:22 GMT
Honestly seeing this thread i find myself wondering why i want to be a fan of this franchise anymore or interact with the fandomk Because an extremist minority doesn't represent the overall majority? Depends on what side you find yourself on and i find that this thread is a classic example of Us vs Them narrative and surely
both sides should stop flinging mud at each other and try to extend an olive branch for unity and less division
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Sept 6, 2021 14:15:32 GMT
Honestly seeing this thread i find myself wondering why i want to be a fan of this franchise anymore or interact with the fandomk Because an extremist minority doesn't represent the overall majority? Although they are the ones that shout the loudest. Social media has given then an outlet & an inflated ego/sense of importance. Horrible people that have always existed but have been enabled by Twitter etc
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Sept 6, 2021 17:15:49 GMT
Because an extremist minority doesn't represent the overall majority? Depends on what side you find yourself on and i find that this thread is a classic example of Us vs Them narrative and surely
both sides should stop flinging mud at each other and try to extend an olive branch for unity and less division
(Quick drop in folks) I had to comment because, while I admire Brig's sentiment on the topic, I think you're mischaracterizing this thread, illusive, and its purpose. This isn't a thread interested in whiteknighting anyone: this is about showing an ugly subculture in the fandom that promotes harmful ideas, and as said many times, for a profit. These people are making money making our fandom, our image, worse and, as shown a couple of pages back, scaring people off from working on the show. How can you ask for unity when these people literally make a living off of making people angry in a bizarro culture war? Unity literally cuts off their income - type up Nerdrotic or bowlestrek on Youtube, and see the content you find. Hundreds of thousands of views, telling people that the show is bad because this or that minority group or topic is involved, and painting Jodie as some kind of she-devil in ways that have nothing to do with her performance, and more some abstract idea that she's a radical misandrist out to destroy the show because... she said she was a feminist one time?
We know you don't like the current era, and that's a-okay. You don't need to be defensive about that, it's not a crime. You're conflating two groups (those who dislike the era and notmydoctor extremists) as one and the same, which they aren't and the past pages show that. I never said that and I'm sure everyone who's commented here before can say they didn't say that. Just look at the last page with that guy who went after Vinay Patel - you think that's acceptable criticism or conduct from a grown adult? How does that improve 'the writing'? How does that conduct make the show better? Because Vinay works in TV that means he should be expected to put up with that? Criticism is dependent on nuance, and unfortunately, we live in an era where that's secondary to a culture of easy anger clicks and always keeping people upset. The people who don't like this era get their voices drowned out by the NMDs and so, debate and discussion stagnate while they literally cash in. That's a problem beyond Who itself and it matters to talk about it, to interrogate and expose it. Otherwise, it will never improve and I think fans deserve better.
(And back out. See you all soon!)
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