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Post by whiskeybrewer on Sept 13, 2018 11:16:42 GMT
Starting something at the most dramatic moment in the whole story as a teaser, then going back "48 hours earlier" to tell the whole story from the beginning and explain how the teaser came about Oh that annoys the crap out of me
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melkur
Chancellery Guard
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Post by melkur on Sept 13, 2018 21:32:38 GMT
Another couple for me - 'Dead Guy Junior' and 'Birth/Death Juxtaposition' [example of the latter; Paul McGann's two-part 'Holby City' introductory story. Three kids born in part one, three people dead by the end of part two...]
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Post by anothermanicmondas on Sept 15, 2018 11:28:34 GMT
Starting something at the most dramatic moment in the whole story as a teaser, then going back "48 hours earlier" to tell the whole story from the beginning and explain how the teaser came about I think the most extreme case of this I have seen (excluding all theose flashback-driven series like Lost and it's imitators) was in Covert Affairs in which one episode had the heroine being shot and reported dead by her new boss and then spent about 5 episodes on the events leading up to it
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Post by anothermanicmondas on Sept 15, 2018 11:31:44 GMT
how about the person (usually on the phone) saying they have something really important to say but can't say it right there and then ("I can't tell you over the phone, I have to tell you in person")- and then get's murdered before they actually say it
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Sept 15, 2018 19:59:32 GMT
how about the person (usually on the phone) saying they have something really important to say but can't say it right there and then ("I can't tell you over the phone, I have to tell you in person")- and then get's murdered before they actually say it And how many times do real people just hang up on you when you're on the phone to them without saying goodbye? Apart from having a flaming row I mean, just hang up because their side of the conversation is over.
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Post by omega on Sept 15, 2018 21:13:52 GMT
how about the person (usually on the phone) saying they have something really important to say but can't say it right there and then ("I can't tell you over the phone, I have to tell you in person")- and then get's murdered before they actually say it And how many times do real people just hang up on you when you're on the phone to them without saying goodbye? Apart from having a flaming row I mean, just hang up because their side of the conversation is over. Or repeating the other side of the conversation so the viewer knows it. When Simpsons did it hapless Homer even said “dial tone?”
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Post by mrperson on Sept 18, 2018 18:34:36 GMT
Person who should know better wanders off stupidly to advance the plot.
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Post by omega on Sept 18, 2018 22:02:35 GMT
Person who should know better wanders off stupidly to advance the plot. Big one in horror movies.
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Post by number13 on Sept 19, 2018 9:55:58 GMT
Thank goodness for cliches, that's what I say!
The Doctor or Companion is Facing Certain Death but:
They were really an android/shape-shifting duplicate/hologram/reflection...
A secret panel opens/teleport operates and they escape in the nick of time... The blaster was really set to 'stun'...
The Companion realises she actually had about a tennis-court's worth of space to run away in, and does (Peri Brown I'm looking at you, you and that Morlox ) The Doctor (or Companion) does something clever to distract/stun the menacing monster/guard/patterned flooring...
Cliches, where would we be without them?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 20, 2018 1:19:47 GMT
Thank goodness for cliches, that's what I say!
The Doctor or Companion is Facing Certain Death but:
They were really an android/shape-shifting duplicate/hologram/reflection...
A secret panel opens/teleport operates and they escape in the nick of time... The blaster was really set to 'stun'...
The Companion realises she actually had about a tennis-court's worth of space to run away in, and does (Peri Brown I'm looking at you, you and that Morlox ) The Doctor (or Companion) does something clever to distract/stun the menacing monster/guard/patterned flooring...
Cliches, where would we be without them? I'm going to say that Morlox was half-Fendahl. Tropes and cliches are definitely not bad in and of themselves, otherwise we wouldn't have the Moral Hero. It has a lot to do with how they're handled. Like, I have a... weariness for the Proud Warrior Race archetype when it's just brutish, unintelligent ciphers slugging one another and that's their entire character. When their seeming obsession for conflict is actually part of a bigger picture, that's when it becomes more interesting. Mass Effect handled the concept really well with the Krogan -- a Proud Warrior Race that ended up so prolific with their intergalactic slugging that their surrounding neighbours banded together and introduced a genetic virus that rendered them all sterile. Their culture is still geared towards brutish combat with no industry of its own (their home is still a smoking ruin) and because they won't discard their sole Planetary Hat, their race is beginning to wane from existence. And they know it, so there are those among them that want to crack open that old cliche and push beyond it. It's really great writing.
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Post by Star Platinum on Sept 20, 2018 1:28:36 GMT
I absolutely loathe the whole “if you die in the dream, you die in real life”
It’s overused far too much, and for me it kills any tension the story has.
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Post by barnabaslives on Sept 20, 2018 1:52:58 GMT
I hate the trope of "you wouldn't want to live longer, and if you did it could only happen at a terrible price". I know, what would there even be for villains and monsters to do if they weren't parasitically depriving other creatures of "life force," which is why I don't complain it about the trope very often even when it constantly bugs me. :-)
(Also, it's true my that the Vampire Barnabas is a huge hero of mine, but the best part for me is that he at least considers trying to get over this, it's mainly having to deal with umpteen kinds of bizarre stuff at once and a bit of eccentricity that make him admirable and interesting, Dark Shadows would be boring if that's all he ever did was bite people). :-)
I'm also not fond of the identical twin trope - I see, so it just so happens that you run into your own twin who is so identical they even have the same hairdo and probably the same accent, what are the odds? If only this type of thing didn't seem to happen implausibly often. I will give points to The Enemy of the World and The Night Witches in this respect, though, since they are both enjoyable enough for that not to bother me very much.
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Post by omega on Sept 22, 2018 11:31:21 GMT
I hate the trope of "you wouldn't want to live longer, and if you did it could only happen at a terrible price". I know, what would there even be for villains and monsters to do if they weren't parasitically depriving other creatures of "life force," which is why I don't complain it about the trope very often even when it constantly bugs me. :-) (Also, it's true my that the Vampire Barnabas is a huge hero of mine, but the best part for me is that he at least considers trying to get over this, it's mainly having to deal with umpteen kinds of bizarre stuff at once and a bit of eccentricity that make him admirable and interesting, Dark Shadows would be boring if that's all he ever did was bite people). :-) I'm also not fond of the identical twin trope - I see, so it just so happens that you run into your own twin who is so identical they even have the same hairdo and probably the same accent, what are the odds? If only this type of thing didn't seem to happen implausibly often. I will give points to The Enemy of the World and The Night Witches in this respect, though, since they are both enjoyable enough for that not to bother me very much. Enemy of the World does throw in the complication that the Doctor has to learn Salamander’s accent and mannerisms so that even those closest to him don’t automatically catch him out. If by some random coincidence a set of biological twins, separated at birth and raised by different people in different places and/or social classes, encounter each other with no logical reasoning behind it, that’s a variant of the trope that gets the eyes rolling. Different cities, perhaps different states and they still meet up with no premeditated intent. Just the fact that a lot of drama can be caused by people bumping into each other when doing so would be a one in a billion chance. Home Alone 2, The Wet Bandits are not only in New York, but find themselves close enough to Kevin (who was only in New York due to a mistake at the airport and pre-9/11 security) to positively identify him and attract his attention! If it’s used purely for narrative convenience *ding*
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Post by omega on Sept 22, 2018 11:39:35 GMT
The withholding of information by one character from another character for the sake of having the narrative. It can be done well, like how the Scoobies come back together after spending a season drifting apart nearly undoes them (Spike provided the Yoko Ono factor). However if the plot of the story relies on characters being kept in the dark and it’s not part of the moral of the story, then some heart to hearts would have saved lives potentially. A video game example, Kingdom Hearts Birth by Sleep. All three storylines would have ended so much better had Eraqus explained why he felt the way he did about the Darkness and why Ven had to stay at the Land of Departure.
Doctor Who can fall into this with the Seventh Doctor, where he’s all mysterious and it ends with one of his companions or a guest character getting pissed off at him (Ace and Hex are great for this). Robophobia averts this, where the Doctor is guiding Liv and the other characters to the answers, laying a trail of clues so they can find the answers instead of the Doctor just telling them.
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