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Post by Ela on May 28, 2019 3:02:37 GMT
I can't help but wonder if there should be a one copy per customer rule on these things. Seems like something like that would be pretty hard to enforce. People would find a way to get around it.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on May 28, 2019 7:48:19 GMT
It's just stuff. Stuff available worldwide in other formats. It's not like people overseas can't hear The Creeping Death. yes.. But it's 2019 and if something is going to be released on vinyl (I am still a collector of vinyl have done so since the 80's) I fully expect to be able to be given the opportunity to purchase it . Likewise for any other country etc etc . Fascinating conversation in all seriousness. In all seriousness - and no attack intended - why do you need two? That's stopping someone else having one.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 8:36:41 GMT
yes.. But it's 2019 and if something is going to be released on vinyl (I am still a collector of vinyl have done so since the 80's) I fully expect to be able to be given the opportunity to purchase it . Likewise for any other country etc etc . Fascinating conversation in all seriousness. In all seriousness - and no attack intended - why do you need two? That's stopping someone else having one. Not necessarily, further copies could be purchased as a gift for a family member or friend.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 28, 2019 8:55:22 GMT
yes.. But it's 2019 and if something is going to be released on vinyl (I am still a collector of vinyl have done so since the 80's) I fully expect to be able to be given the opportunity to purchase it . Likewise for any other country etc etc . Fascinating conversation in all seriousness. In all seriousness - and no attack intended - why do you need two? That's stopping someone else having one. I have a twin brother who is on this forum too.. Equally a fan like me. Plus I have about 10 lifelong Whovian friends as well. Surely no one would begrudge me if I bought 12 ?? They all would go to a loving home.
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Post by shallacatop on May 28, 2019 9:00:05 GMT
We don't have an HMV, Sainsburys or Asda in Australia.. On the flip side- can you imagine if BF did a deal with an Australian only distributor with everything you 2 have just stated.. There would definitely be some concern, for lack of a better word with all non Aussie countries- it's only natural. I msgd Mr Briggs earlier this year on The Book Of Faces and he directly replied saying they are looking at all facets of international distribution because they are well aware.. Not having a go at anyone btw- it makes for very interesting conversation. Someone co-incidentally on FaceyBook started a post about the "Chimes" and "Spare" vinyl still not being sold out, and comparing the price difference direct from BF vs. the stores you have there.. I understand you don’t have those stores in Australia. It’s why they’re UK exclusives, as those retailers have ordered it. As far as I’m concerned, if an Australian retailer coughed the money up to do their own exclusive, then it’s fair play. It’s the retailers showing interest that is creating these exclusives. They’re not concerned about trying to appeal to a market they don’t sell in.
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Post by shallacatop on May 28, 2019 9:05:47 GMT
It's just stuff. Stuff available worldwide in other formats. It's not like people overseas can't hear The Creeping Death. yes.. But it's 2019 and if something is going to be released on vinyl (I am still a collector of vinyl have done so since the 80's) I fully expect to be able to be given the opportunity to purchase it . Likewise for any other country etc etc . Fascinating conversation in all seriousness. That is a valid point... if the retailer adheres to that. The three that have done the exclusives so far have been done in-store. Two of them are supermarkets and you presumably can’t order a Sainsburys food shop to Australia. I’m not sure why a business would alter their infrastructure and way of doing things to ship a vinyl abroad, when they’ve no interest or presence in those markets. This is why I struggle to see how Big Finish will tackle international distribution. A retailer won’t want to share the units they’ve paid for with BF, they’ll want sole exclusivity. The only ways around it would be for an overseas retailer to do their own exclusive, Big Finish doing one themselves or an online retailer offering worldwide shipping. It is a fascinating conversation, I agree. We’ve now got access to the internet and so many places to purchase things from all over the world that it’s a little odd to get (admittedly rather big) retailers doing their own in-store exclusives.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 28, 2019 9:14:54 GMT
yes.. But it's 2019 and if something is going to be released on vinyl (I am still a collector of vinyl have done so since the 80's) I fully expect to be able to be given the opportunity to purchase it . Likewise for any other country etc etc . Fascinating conversation in all seriousness. That is a valid point... if the retailer adheres to that. The three that have done the exclusives so far have been done in-store. Two of them are supermarkets and you presumably can’t order a Sainsburys food shop to Australia. I’m not sure why a business would alter their infrastructure and way of doing things to ship a vinyl abroad, when they’ve no interest or presence in those markets. This is why I struggle to see how Big Finish will tackle international distribution. A retailer won’t want to share the units they’ve paid for with BF, they’ll want sole exclusivity. The only ways around it would be for an overseas retailer to do their own exclusive, Big Finish doing one themselves or an online retailer offering worldwide shipping. It is a fascinating conversation, I agree. We’ve now got access to the internet and so many places to purchase things from all over the world that it’s a little odd to get (admittedly rather big) retailers doing their own in-store exclusives. The biggest commercial music store here is jbhifi .. They have had the monopoly here in Australia the last 15 years.. They have a HUGE selection of vinyl in every store..Vinyl is on a HUGE upswing here in Australia, has been the last few years. They are everywhere like McDonalds here.. They are like Book Depository in that they have hundreds of everything . Would be super easy/barely an inconvenience for them to stock the vinyls in.. So there's that solved.. Let's close the book on this case
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Post by shallacatop on May 28, 2019 9:29:33 GMT
That is a valid point... if the retailer adheres to that. The three that have done the exclusives so far have been done in-store. Two of them are supermarkets and you presumably can’t order a Sainsburys food shop to Australia. I’m not sure why a business would alter their infrastructure and way of doing things to ship a vinyl abroad, when they’ve no interest or presence in those markets. This is why I struggle to see how Big Finish will tackle international distribution. A retailer won’t want to share the units they’ve paid for with BF, they’ll want sole exclusivity. The only ways around it would be for an overseas retailer to do their own exclusive, Big Finish doing one themselves or an online retailer offering worldwide shipping. It is a fascinating conversation, I agree. We’ve now got access to the internet and so many places to purchase things from all over the world that it’s a little odd to get (admittedly rather big) retailers doing their own in-store exclusives. The biggest commercial music store here is jbhifi .. They have had the monopoly here in Australia the last 15 years.. They have a HUGE selection of vinyl in every store..Vinyl is on a HUGE upswing here in Australia, has been the last few years. They are everywhere like McDonalds here.. They are like Book Depository in that they have hundreds of everything . Would be super easy/barely an inconvenience for them to stock the vinyls in.. So there's that solved.. Let's close the book on this case
That’s great. Why don’t you email them and explain that the vinyls been popular in the UK and they should think about stocking their own exclusives? I just cannot see them stocking other retailers exclusives, but getting their own? I don’t see why not if they think there’s the demand.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 28, 2019 9:32:59 GMT
The biggest commercial music store here is jbhifi .. They have had the monopoly here in Australia the last 15 years.. They have a HUGE selection of vinyl in every store..Vinyl is on a HUGE upswing here in Australia, has been the last few years. They are everywhere like McDonalds here.. They are like Book Depository in that they have hundreds of everything . Would be super easy/barely an inconvenience for them to stock the vinyls in.. So there's that solved.. Let's close the book on this case
That’s great. Why don’t you email them and explain that the vinyls been popular in the UK and they should think about stocking their own exclusives? I just cannot see them stocking other retailers exclusives, but getting their own? I don’t see why not if they think there’s the demand. I have - last week. waiting on a response. I am all about finding equal solutions for everyone
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 28, 2019 10:21:34 GMT
WOW.. I need to buy a X Lotto ticket.. I just received a response.. I am keeping this email - official "go ahead" even though there is nothing wrong "Hello Shane - Thanks for writing in; very happy to hear you've been enjoying our dramas for some time. We are working with our vinyl partner to find an overseas distributor, but as of yet, this hasn't happened. So, yes, your best option is probably to ask a UK-based friend to pick one up for you (from Asda). Best wishes - Karen"
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Post by Timelord007 on May 28, 2019 10:31:44 GMT
Well i always buy 2 & keep one sealed, I'm OCD so part & parcel my illness but glad i did because the main range 1-100 mostly discontinued.
However vinyl ain't my thing but if someone wants two copies they'll always find a way i know i have done.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 10:57:06 GMT
Well i always buy 2 & keep one sealed, I'm OCD so part & parcel my illness but glad i did because the main range 1-100 mostly discontinued. However vinyl ain't my thing but if someone wants two copies they'll always find a way i know i have done. It'd be rather easy, mail-wise, rent out a PO box and have it sent there. Another issue harks back to a very old problem that Big Finish have had -- fake accounts. They'd have to be policed, regulated, false positives addressed, false negatives marked... It's an awful lot of extra work to make sure that items aren't purchased. Something that runs counter to the company's intentions. It just doesn't seem worth it.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on May 28, 2019 10:59:32 GMT
Well i always buy 2 & keep one sealed, I'm OCD so part & parcel my illness but glad i did because the main range 1-100 mostly discontinued. However vinyl ain't my thing but if someone wants two copies they'll always find a way i know i have done. It'd be rather easy, mail-wise, rent out a PO box and have it sent there. Another issue harks back to a very old problem that Big Finish have had -- fake accounts. They'd have to be policed, regulated, false positives addressed, false negatives marked... It's an awful lot of extra work to make sure that items aren't purchased. Something that runs counter to the company's intentions. It just doesn't seem worth it. I have had a PO Box for about 25 years now- That's where all bills and packages go.. My letterbox is purely for junk mail. I used to get a xmas present from my post office person every year left in my box LOL.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 11:21:11 GMT
It'd be rather easy, mail-wise, rent out a PO box and have it sent there. Another issue harks back to a very old problem that Big Finish have had -- fake accounts. They'd have to be policed, regulated, false positives addressed, false negatives marked... It's an awful lot of extra work to make sure that items aren't purchased. Something that runs counter to the company's intentions. It just doesn't seem worth it. I have had a PO Box for about 25 years now- That's where all bills and packages go.. My letterbox is purely for junk mail. I used to get a xmas present from my post office person every year left in my box LOL. So the reverse would be true in your case, just mail it to your home address. (Or to another PO box at the same branch, rented just for the month.) Good news! Since the closure of the ABC Shops, all content originally sold therein can now be found in independent sellers like JB Hi-Fi, Sanity, Big W, Booktopia, et al. Couple that with them selling steelbooks for the new Dragonball: Brolly film in an obscure market (well, nowadays it's an "obscure market") and there's a strong precedent for such a deal pulling through: 1. It's a preexisting intellectual property that they know they can sell; 2. In a lucrative market in high demand; 3. The limited number of units means that there is a definitive end-date for their shelf life, and; 4. The offer can be used to further advertise that market. Win, win.
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Post by Ela on May 28, 2019 15:07:54 GMT
I just want to point out here that just because something is produced exclusively in the UK, that doesn't preclude someone from another country having a UK friend pick one up for them (or even more than one). There's nothing illegal or underhanded about it. For that matter, a UK citizen with a friend abroad might see this and think "I have a friend who would love this!" about a friend not in the UK and pick it up for them.
I don't really understand the fuss being made about it, to be perfectly honest.
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bobod
Chancellery Guard
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Post by bobod on May 28, 2019 16:59:22 GMT
In all seriousness - and no attack intended - why do you need two? That's stopping someone else having one. Not necessarily, further copies could be purchased as a gift for a family member or friend. No, I wasn't meaning that. My memory was of reading he had got two copies for himself and one for someone else. Perhaps I'm misremembering. But I was asking why anyone would want more than one copy *for themselves*.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 17:45:51 GMT
I kinda sympathise with both sides - I can imagine the frustration for fans when BF make these in store exclusives only to get to stores and be told they only got 3 and they've gone. Trying to support the high street only to be forced online to pay collector's prices anyway. Likewise though, to be overseas and a collector who wants all of BF's Who output, especially if you love vinyl - that's a massive frustration too. I think the only solution would be BF coming to arrangements with retailers in other countries, which isn't easy when your product is a niche of a niche. Alternatively, BF selling these directly and printing some more. Maybe the high street ones could be picture discs or coloured vinyl - something to keep them a bit more special. Then...that does detract somewhat from the idea of supporting the high street. Then again....do ASDA need support? THey're part of the Walmart group - net worth $350billion - so I don't think they need to flog a few vinyls to be doing a turn. I like the idea of one per person but there's always people who want two - maybe one to play and one to keep wrapped. Maybe one to keep and one to scalp once it's rare (not saying anyone here is doing that, but it's clearly something that goes on - I'm well into the blu ray community and it's rampant there) and bigger companies than BF haven't found a way to stop the practice. I'm kinda glad I'm not into these releases - I think my blood pressure would be up a bit.
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 18:25:58 GMT
If you see something that you know is rare and going to be worth a lot more than you are paying for it, its surely quite natural to be tempted to get a second copy which may well remain boxed/wrapped for posterity - its what fans and collectors do and one of the main reasons that box fresh/sealed rarities are now a days traded for the likes of 40 year old Kenner/Palitoy Star Wars figures. Are we really suggesting here that those collectors should have only bought one of each, to be taken out of the packaging and used back when bought in the shops new?
Good on anyone who wants more than one copy and can get one. The issue here is deliberately not supplying sufficient to meet demand to kick up a marketing buzz. Some fans and collectors are bound to get frustrated and upset when inevitably they cannot keep their collection runs 'flush' (i.e. complete). Its all a bit like a real life version of the Wonka Bar Golden Ticket business - setting out to get customers worked up for publicity purposes.
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Post by glutamodo on May 28, 2019 19:02:24 GMT
While I bought my first CD player in the late 80s, I still loved vinyl. But ironically, as I became, for a time, something of an audiophile, but one on a tight budget, I never then had a premium record player and the fact that CDs were free of surface noise, plus the way that early CDs were mastered with great dynamic range - "brickwalling" was a nightmare still off in the future - I thus rather embraced early CDs. I had hundreds of LPs at one time... and most of them were stored in my parents' basement and when they passed away, I included many of them in the Estate Sale, and then later gave away a huge chunk of them to an enthusiastic purchaser of that Sale. I still have a couple of crates of the "cream of the crop" and I own two turntables, one a pretty good one and the other a professional platter spinner.
However I've never really considered buying any BF on vinyl. Why? Well, despite my past love for clear full dynamic range audio, that doesn't cut it when listening to audio drama on earbuds while driving at 65+MPH or walking down a street with traffic passing by. So I format all of my archived BF titles to *gasp* 128kbps ABR. I still hear everything I need to. But that is how I listen to BF, and it's definitely inferior to vinyl. I currently have my lessor LP spinner sitting under a table across the room from me. I could easily plug it in and listen to whatever I wanted to at any time. But I don't listen to BF in my living room. Thus, I have no interest in BF Vinyl.
Still, vinyl is kind of cool. I love it that you actually get some wild and crazy, and visible album jacket and sleeve art that is sorely lacking on CD.
As this thread as dragged on lately, I sometimes think of Record Store Day. Since I don't pay much attention to BF vinyl I don't remember if they've ever been a part of it. The actual day which falls around the weekend before Earth Day every year, I've only ever attended one of them, as I don't live anywhere near a participating store, but it's a cool thing. However I have read about how prices for music on vinyl have jumped in recent years and that puts a noose around the pocketbooks of vinyl consumers. I also never learned if there was some kind of consolidated distribution system for RSD, if all those special LPs and 45s get shipped to one warehouse, who then bundles them all up and ships them to each and every store... this only makes sense and would save a lot of time, effort and hassle for the individual record producers. But if say BF had to ship out X-amount of copies themselves to every store on the RSD list, not sure if that would cut it. This WOULD get a very wider international distribution, but I wonder if the consumers would show up to buy on the day, as the prices of the BF titles are rather higher than most of the music offerings.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 28, 2019 19:19:46 GMT
Star Wars toys, as Daver mentioned above, of course weren't (in those days, not now) made for a niche collector's market like these vinyls are. The Star Wars toys were made for a mass audience of kids, selling absolutely millions of cheap plastic badly sculpted and destined to be seen at every car boot sale for the next 40 years whenever an attic clearout happens. It was kinda the opposite of what we're discussing here - no-one would need to have contacts just to get a Darth Vader or Obi-Wan toy. With obvious exceptions like the recalled firing Boba Fett...but things like that happened accidentally, not through design. The more modern Star Wars market, with limited edition figures sold exclusively at events like the Star Wars Celebration, or Comic-Con then appearing on ebay within minutes would probably be a better comparison. Old school SW toys became collectors items through time, things like the Con exclusives or these BF vinyls are collectors items through design.
The classic series Doctor Who bluray range has seen an increased print run for subsequent releases after the Season 12 one sold out in days, and the BBC have that extra revenue for Seasons 18 and 19 while the sets are still somewhat limited. If they had stuck to the print run of S12, they would have lost that revenue months ago and only private sellers and scalpers would be benefiting now, as is happening with S12. I think BF are underestimating demand - would anyone grudge them making more for future runs if there's demand for them? There clearly is - 1000 seem to fly in a day. More people getting a chance to grab one would surely be a good thing. More people having their own copy at retail price rather than inflated collector's prices. BF getting that extra cash. All seems quite a good thing to me. Over to BF.
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