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Post by jasonward on Jul 6, 2017 16:37:48 GMT
Any corrections/suggestions please say. Would love to see that presented in a family tree format
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Post by sherlock on Jul 6, 2017 21:53:34 GMT
jasonward, there you go. I decided based on their resemblance to the Moonbase Cybermen the Cyber-Voord merged with the remnants of Planet 14 to make the 21st/22nd Century faction. Why not? Now to figure out where the DWM Cybermen comics belong...
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2017 22:16:51 GMT
jasonward , there you go. I decided based on their resemblance to the Moonbase Cybermen the Cyber-Voord merged with the remnants of Planet 14 to make the 21st/22nd Century faction. Why not? Now to figure out where the DWM Cybermen comics belong... Wow, amazing work.
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Post by mrperson on Jul 6, 2017 23:19:45 GMT
It seems pretty muddled now. The doctor's speech while he, Master, Missy, and Bill, on the roof in the latest ep seemed to state that it was "convergent evolution". Could swear he used that exact phrase, then also said that it happens wherever people are. Then he named much of these places as examples....Mondas, Telos, etc., as if at each location organics had cyberdized.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 3:34:20 GMT
I think there's about 12 factions now. This is mixture of Banks' original factions plus my theorising based on stories since. [...] Any corrections/suggestions please say. Excellent work. For simplicity's sake, I'll be referring to the diagram below as a fundamental basis for the varying diaspora of Cybermen. Settle in, we'll be covering fifty years of history. What makes this really confusing is that a lot of these subspecies coexist at the same time, each meeting their own end at different points. I think it's only the CyberTelosians who vanish because they become the Neomorphs. You'll see me mention them a lot too and... Well... They were David Banks's Cybermen and probably the first time travellers, they'll have a logical impact. However, that's not to say that the idea of hibernation units vanish with them either, Tasak in Kingdom of Silver and Cantus as mentioned in Benny Summerfield are two such tomb worlds. Telos was the progenitor for the idea and spread it around via the Nomads and Neomorphs. Scary thought: It was supposed to be the master control centre where every single dormant tomb of the millions they developed would be reactivated. Planet 14: The World Shapers posits that Marinus and Planet 14 are one and the same, indicating that it's within Earth's solar system and the Cybertechnology must have been brought across during a migration from the passing Mondas. The ArcHive Tapes state that the Cybermen used Planet 14 for a number of invasion attempts against the Earth. However, The Hollow Men (w/Seventh Doctor) states that the Doctor has been meaning to check up on the planet's provisional government, so it's likely that their colonisation of Lonsis was in response to being driven out by the Second Doctor and Jamie in an unseen adventure (Season 6b? It must be them because the Planner identifies them by photograph). They are the CyberFaction and probably start scoping out the Earth as early as The Harvest. The Cybermen from The Girl Who Never Was are likely from Planet 14. The Reaping: The timeship in The Reaping is a product of Cyberman and Time Lord technology and the virus bears an uncanny resemblance to that seen originally in Real Time. Therefore, it's possible that the Cyberman in The Reaping is a product of that alternate timeline in which they conquered Gallifrey (think Day of the Daleks or Dr Elizabeth Klein). It's likely that the variant that eventually develops on Chronos is a product of a Neomorph contingent if the Cyberguns employed, the vocal inflections used and the design on the cover of The Reaping are anything to go by. I'd almost be tempted to believe they were just straight Neomorphs if not for the webcast illustrations. Before Chronos, the Cyber-Controller might have been from the 82nd century or part of the Hegemony from the 110st. Silver Nemesis: Attack of the Cybermen briefly mentions a ship hidden on the dark side of the moon which are monitoring Earth's transmissions in preparation for Mondas's return. It's entirely possible that these were CyberNeomorphs left behind when the Leader on Earth hijacked the Doctor's TARDIS. When Mondas was destroyed and they lost contact with Cyber-Control, they set into operation to capture Nemesis as a contingency plan. The Cyber-Fleet are probably from Planet 14 (the Doctor mentions far nastier Cybermen in orbit), so we have on-screen CyberNeomorphs and off-screen CyberFaction. Merging Subspecies: Telos and the Nomads are where it gets particularly complicated. The CyberNomads are widely believed to be responsible for the proliferation of the Cyber-race beyond Earth's solar system, most likely departing Planet 14 as pathfinders to initiate a series of breeding colonies (viz. Agora) in order to provide raw materials. The CyberTelosians are another group of CyberFaction descendants who parasitised the Cryons' subterranean cities as hibernation chambers for their own kind on Telos, massacring and converting the planet's original inhabitants until it was widely believed they had become extinct. The Tomb of the Cybermen takes place after the last Cyber-War and it is believed that the Cybermen were all wiped out. Eventually, after the events of Tomb, a Cyber-Nomad group discovered the crippled Telosians and merged with them to create a new species -- the Neomorphs. These Neomorphs would later go on to appear in The Five Doctors, cause Earthshock, which leads another Cyber-War and Attack of the Cybermen. That has the potential to be really confusing, so I'll sum it up here -- Telosians and Nomads merged to make the Neomorphs. Although that means the definitive end of the Telosians (being isolated on a single world), the rest of the Nomads are still stomping about the galaxy like we see in Sword of Orion. Basically, any of 80s Cybermen can be considered Neomorphs and most Big Finish Cybermen after the twenty-second century are probably Nomads. Missy and the Cybermen: Well, the design is from the 36th century according to Nightmare in Silver, so I'm willing to bet that she nipped back to that general period and hijacked a processing plant. The bodies were supplied by 3W Institute mausoleums, feeding on the upper classes and their fear.
The rest of it looks spot on.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 7, 2017 8:04:35 GMT
@wolfie53 , thanks for help I've modified the family tree. Essentially the chronology is as follows: -Mondasian Cybermen created on Mondas probably in parallel to, but not connected to, the ones on the colony ship, they subsequently send out scouting ships one of which turns up in 19th Century Europe -Planet 14 is colonised by breakaway faction, whom attempt an invasion of Earth in the 1960/70s (I'm not going into UNIT dating mess) from a colony on Isos II and then subsequently battle the Doctor on Isos II. Remnants of the invasion turn up in the 70/80s and in 2006. -Mondas returns to Earth orbit in 1986 and meets it's destruction, this is the end for the Mondans -Apparently driven from Planet 14 the faction colonise Lonsis, which they're then driven from in 2006, a faction ship later crashes in Europe sometime in the following decade -On the planet Marinus a World Shaper evolves the cybernetic Voord into proto-Cybermen (by sheer coincidence the World Shaper numbers Marinus Planet 14) -The Cyber-Voord and faction Cybermen merge to form the Cyber-Nomads (this is based on nothing more than the Cyber-Voord resembling the Moonbase design but there's weirder theories) -The Cyber-Nomads proliferate across the galaxy and attempt a number of attacks on Earth via the Moon and the Wheel -Facing extinction due to unknown reasons (might be a war?) a contingent of Nomads colonise Telos and enter hibernation -The Telosian tombs are disturbed centuries later and though initially the Doctor imprisons them again presumably that one remaining Cybermat wakes them up again -The Telosians make contact with surviving Nomads and Cyber-Control is established on Telos, co-ordinating the entire Cyber-race (this is mainly extrapolated from Kroton's origin story where Cybermen of Invasion-style are in contact with Telos). The Telosians plus surviving Nomads wage the Cyber-Wars, which turn bad when humanity invents the Glitter Guns -Losing the Telosians lead an effort to change history by saving Mondas, this fails and the Cybermen left in the 1980s later try and secure the Nemesis statue, around this time they also form an alliance with the Daleks (yeah The Ultimate Adventure fits in). The Cyber-War ends with a final assault on Telos, destroying Cyber-Control. This leaves remnants of the Cybermen scattered across the galaxy and with no way to co-ordinate with each other, they are the Neomorphs -Neomorph activity is disparate, 2 tombs are disturbed during the Orion War, leading to an eventual attack on Earth and another Neomorph group later attempt to destroy Earth to avert a conference where a coalition of planets would form against the Cybermen. 2 Neomorph tombs are discovered by Bernice Summerfield circa the 27th Century and another group assault Voga circa the 29th Century (based on the Doctor's estimate of Nerva's time of building in Ark in Space) -In an alternate timeline the Neomorphs at this point are far more powerful and use viruses to convert, this is presumably negated...somehow -Neomorphs become involved in a war, which the Doctor is heavily involved in and also includes the Time Lords (hmm...). This goes badly and the last surviving fleet retreats to the Time Vortex with it's leader attempting to utilise stolen Time Lord technology and ending up crashing in 1985, the leader's subsequent plan to manipulate the Doctor fails. The fleet presumably escapes the Time Vortex at some point. -Neomorphs encounter the remains of the Cybus Cybermen from Pete's World and merge with them to create the Cyber-Legionnaries and organise themselves into legions. The legions presumably gain proper time travel (given the number of them that turn up in Earth's past) evolve and at some point are devastated by another Cyber-War, in which humanity destroys an entire galaxy to rid it of the Cybermen -Remaining Legionnaries turn up on Hedgewick's World of Wonders and take part in the siege of Trenzalore, and Missy presumably knicks their technology to make her Cybermen -The Legionnaries eventually evolve again and travel back in time to attack London in 2005 -Finally according to the Time Lords the Cybermen evolve past physical forms altogether and become one of the most benign and peace-loving races in the Galaxy, well worth several centuries worth of bloodshed in the Time Lords' eyes And that's all, I think. Phew. Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 8:52:31 GMT
@wolfie53 , thanks for help I've modified the family tree. No worries, I know how dizzying complex it can all get. It's all about linking certain designs to certain subspecies (Faction being the majority of the Troughton era, Nomads an explanation for the Revenge designs, Neomorphs being Earthshock-style, etc.) and it gets very complicated when you get into things like audio where they have no "visual", per se. Only what we hear and recognise. The Dalek one is even harder due to The Dalek Chronicles and Genesis of the Daleks (which may or may not have altered the history of previous Dalek stories). It's possible that the Cyber-Voord were "smoothed out" of the cybernisation process as an obsolete cultural artefact and become the kind of Cybermen we saw in The Wheel in Space. Those in Illegal Alien are likewise time travellers and members of late CyberFaction (circa Wheel), having developed their own crude time machine to travel back to the 1940s as an experiment. Likewise, Killing Ground states that the Cybermen both in that novel and Revenge are Nomads, based on their ability to kill with their headpieces and the emergence of an "old" weakness (i.e. radiation exposure). Don't forget Marinus was also home to a number of humanoid civilisations virtually identical to Mondas or Earth, so it's likely that regular Cybermen evolved as well. I wonder if it became one of their tomb worlds...? And-- Oh, look, I'm seeing spots. @_@
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Post by sherlock on Jul 7, 2017 9:10:17 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2017 9:59:46 GMT
*whistles* That's one hell of a theory. I always personally thought that those early stories were part of the Daleks' "official" history, revisionist propaganda spread about Skaro that eliminated Davros, the Kaleds and the Thals from their creation as the supreme race. Given that the Daleks have "elections" for their Emperor -- elections that result in dissidents being exterminated (maybe put in place after the challenge from Zeg?) -- it wasn't too far-fetched an idea.
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Post by sherlock on May 18, 2018 11:27:36 GMT
Updated with a new faction courtsey of UNIT: Cyber-Reality, and also added Return to Telos which I'd missed previously.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 13, 2018 22:48:53 GMT
Hour of the Cybermen...*scratches head*
Earthshock design Cybermen perfectly at home in the 1980s, with no indication of any links to Planet 14. Do we have another new faction on our hands? (I guess Silver Nemesis can also be attributed to this group now, since that lot being time travellers was only ever a theory). This lot seem to be entirely mobile in a fleet, rather than colonising a specific world.
Also re-watching Earthshock on Twitch the other day reminded me of their clipshow of the Doctor...which includes Revenge of the Cybermen. So either the ones in Earthshock are time travellers, or Revenge takes place way earlier than I'd previously placed it (and I guess the Doctor's estimate of Nerva's age in Ark in Space is wrong).
Some revisions to the family tree may be in order.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2018 0:46:41 GMT
Hour of the Cybermen...*scratches head* Earthshock design Cybermen perfectly at home in the 1980s, with no indication of any links to Planet 14. Do we have another new faction on our hands? (I guess Silver Nemesis can also be attributed to this group now, since that lot being time travellers was only ever a theory). This lot seem to be entirely mobile in a fleet, rather than colonising a specific world. Also re-watching Earthshock on Twitch the other day reminded me of their clipshow of the Doctor...which includes Revenge of the Cybermen. So either the ones in Earthshock are time travellers, or Revenge takes place way earlier than I'd previously placed it (and I guess the Doctor's estimate of Nerva's age in Ark in Space is wrong). Some revisions to the family tree may be in order. It's certainly possible... Hmm... The Doctor does mention another faction onboard the Cyberfleet that he considers to be nastier than the Neomorphs on the ground. We never see them, so... They could theoretically be anyone, working in concert with their predecessors/successors. It could go either way. On the one hand, a Revenge-style head turns up as part of Henry van Statten's collection, so maybe some Nomads got blasted back from the Cyber-Wars to an earlier point in history? On the other, there's a very strong possibility that the Neomorphs are still time travellers, based on their sheer range of distribution across space and time. I've a sneaking suspicion that the contingent who turn up for Earthshock were some of the very last Cybermen to board Bates and Stratton's timeship before Cyber-Control was destroyed in Attack. What seals it for me at least is that this same design turns up about 5000 years after their attempted strike on Earth. Very active. Led by an unseen Cyber-Emperor. My pet theory is that the Cybermen on Telos (or perhaps another group) had been sprinkling battallions all throughout recorded history while they possessed the opportunity. Here, there, everywhere it seemed strategically important. When the timeship blew up, these assault forces were already well enough established that the destruction of their home base proved an inconvenience at best.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 14, 2018 11:01:33 GMT
Hour of the Cybermen...*scratches head* Earthshock design Cybermen perfectly at home in the 1980s, with no indication of any links to Planet 14. Do we have another new faction on our hands? (I guess Silver Nemesis can also be attributed to this group now, since that lot being time travellers was only ever a theory). This lot seem to be entirely mobile in a fleet, rather than colonising a specific world. Also re-watching Earthshock on Twitch the other day reminded me of their clipshow of the Doctor...which includes Revenge of the Cybermen. So either the ones in Earthshock are time travellers, or Revenge takes place way earlier than I'd previously placed it (and I guess the Doctor's estimate of Nerva's age in Ark in Space is wrong). Some revisions to the family tree may be in order. It's certainly possible... Hmm... The Doctor does mention another faction onboard the Cyberfleet that he considers to be nastier than the Neomorphs on the ground. We never see them, so... They could theoretically be anyone, working in concert with their predecessors/successors. It could go either way. On the one hand, a Revenge-style head turns up as part of Henry van Statten's collection, so maybe some Nomads got blasted back from the Cyber-Wars to an earlier point in history? On the other, there's a very strong possibility that the Neomorphs are still time travellers, based on their sheer range of distribution across space and time. I've a sneaking suspicion that the contingent who turn up for Earthshock were some of the very last Cybermen to board Bates and Stratton's timeship before Cyber-Control was destroyed in Attack. What seals it for me at least is that this same design turns up about 5000 years after their attempted strike on Earth. Very active. Led by an unseen Cyber-Emperor. My pet theory is that the Cybermen on Telos (or perhaps another group) had been sprinkling battallions all throughout recorded history while they possessed the opportunity. Here, there, everywhere it seemed strategically important. When the timeship blew up, these assault forces were already well enough established that the destruction of their home base proved an inconvenience at best. Took a TARDIS wiki search to find what story you were referencing there (I really should get into the Sixth Doctor comic strips, I hear such good things). The 82nd Century might the furthest into the future we've seen the Cybermen, though we have no firm time periods for Nightmare in Silver or where The Flood lot originated. The idea of the Earthshock contingent being time travellers is quite an old theory it turns out. The old Doctor Who BBC page included it in their (now very outdated) Cyber history page: www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/cyberhistory.shtmlI wonder if the answer may lie in The Reaping. The design involved is explicitly the 80s, and the Cyber-Leader claims the last Cyber-Fleet (so long after Revenge) has been forced into the Time Vortex. Given how unpredictable Cyber time travel capability has been, might this fleet have been scattered across history. One lot ended up in the 26th Century and decided to attack Earth, timing it to cause maximum benefit to Cyber-history with the conference, another lot ended up in the 82nd Century and became ruled by a Cyber-Emperor and another lot ran into the last of the Cybus Cybermen and formed the Cyber-Legionnaries we see in the New Series. Now I suppose it's conceivable that Hour's Cybermen are another offshoot of this temporal scattering, but I don't get that sense. They have a full fleet and are capable of kidnapping most of a planet's population, they are not a desperate contingent like Earthshock (where they have to resort to subterfuge to get to Earth). We know the original Mondasians and Planet 14 faction both sent out scout ships at various points (Ref: The Silver Turk, The Harvest). So it's not totally out the question that the Hour fleet is an offshoot of one of them, which has taken to roaming space to harvest populations (adopting the 80s design in the process). Hour is their attempt to put down firm roots on Earth, and when that backfires they eventually recover and return for the Nemesis statue, which through the seventh Doctor's manipulation resulted in this offshoot's total destruction. Right now to figure out how to modify the tree to reflect all this.
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Post by fitzoliverj on Jul 14, 2018 11:22:26 GMT
A few thoughts (and two queries) - I hope these are of assistance
The ArcHivist from 'Killing Ground' theorised that the Cybernomads opened the Tombs and released the Cybermen there and in doing so founded a joint sucessor race, the Neomorphs. That works very well with "Attack of the Cybermen" but it's only the theory of an admittedly-very well-informed person, she may still be wrong; even coinages like 'Neomorphs' might not necessarily be justified, although whatever the truth is it's got to allow for her to make any mistakes. Similarly, the characters in 'Tomb' are historians and are therefore likely to have a better knowledge of Cybermen than other people, and so might be aware of various attacks and encounters that other people are not.
I always reckoned that humanity called any silver cybernetic monster a Cyberman whether it was actually a Cyberman or not. The Cyber-Wars mentioned in early NAs could perhaps have been fought against somebody other than Cybermen, for example (although I think it's now been established it was indeed Cybermen of some sort or another). Similarly the Cyber-breaches of the early twenty-first century from Lawrence Miles's novels: personally I'd guess they were Cybermen from Planet 14, but perhaps not. But in 'Tomb' the Doctor explicitly states that the Cybermen on Telos are the same as from 'The Moonbase', and the CyberController clearly agrees.
The Neomorphs *probably* evolve into the CyberLords because that scene in 'The Crystal Bucephalus' with Turlough and the toilets is, I think, Craig Hinton humorously extrapolating from the fact that '80s Cybermen are more emotional (angry, irritable, smug) than those from the 1960s and '70s.
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Post by mark687 on Jul 14, 2018 11:41:22 GMT
Well, a lot of frustrating text box shenanigans later the family tree has been updated. Three new factions: -Fleet: A somewhat uninspired name for the Cybermen seen in Hour of the Cybermen and Silver Nemesis who are seemingly based in a Cyber-fleet. I've given them a link to both Mondasian and Planet 14, as there's no indication of which they came from originally. They could be time travellers, but there's nothing definitive to say that. -Imperial: Cybermen of 80s design in the 82nd Century ruled by a Cyber-Emperor. An off-shoot of the temporal scattering I theorise occurred after The Reaping
-26th Century: Another uninspired name (I do not have David Banks' skill at naming Cybermen) for the Cybermen of Earthshock. This is another off-shoot of the temporal scattering, hence them having records of Revenge. Very nice work!
Regards
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 0:02:00 GMT
Well, a lot of frustrating text box shenanigans later the family tree has been updated. Three new factions: -Fleet: A somewhat uninspired name for the Cybermen seen in Hour of the Cybermen and Silver Nemesis who are seemingly based in a Cyber-fleet. I've given them a link to both Mondasian and Planet 14, as there's no indication of which they came from originally. They could be time travellers, but there's nothing definitive to say that. -Imperial: Cybermen of 80s design in the 82nd Century ruled by a Cyber-Emperor. An off-shoot of the temporal scattering I theorise occurred after The Reaping
-26th Century: Another uninspired name (I do not have David Banks' skill at naming Cybermen) for the Cybermen of Earthshock. This is another off-shoot of the temporal scattering, hence them having records of Revenge. Indeed, nice work! One thing though, the Earthshock Cybermen also had a fleet on standby. The Cyberleader and his battalion were the initial vanguard, responsible for the ambush that would catch Earth authorities unawares. Their plan appeared to be hit the conference, kill the delegates and then, send in the fleet to maybe subjugate any survivors (any longterm invasion seemed almost like an afterthought). Their modus operandi (i.e. kill anything that moves) strikes me as a group that's much more assured in their numbers then would appear otherwise. The ArcHive Tapes written by David Banks theorised that the Cybermen in Attack were reacting directly to the fallout of Earthshock and were soon to be on the run (mining Telos with high-explosive, more fragile constructions, a heavier emphasis on conversion, etc.). I very much recommend the DWM comics, everything from the Fourth Doctor to the end of the Sixth is a great read. Apologies for making the story titles a bit tricky, but... yeah, both of their appearances come in stories without an overarching title. I've gotten into the habit of calling them The Six Champions ("Kane's Story", "Frobisher's Story", et al.) and The Sylvaniar Threat ("Exodus", "Revelation", "Genesis!"), respectively, just to avoid clutter. Although, the ones in the latter story could easily be from any Neomorph subgroup. A few thoughts (and two queries) - I hope these are of assistance [...] The Neomorphs *probably* evolve into the CyberLords because that scene in 'The Crystal Bucephalus' with Turlough and the toilets is, I think, Craig Hinton humorously extrapolating from the fact that '80s Cybermen are more emotional (angry, irritable, smug) than those from the 1960s and '70s. Interesting you say that: Killing Ground puts forward the idea that various later models simulate emotional responses in the same way a sociopath does. Just going through the motions to acquire a certain set of responses to whomever their emoting; e.g. rousing the Cyberleader to "anger" in Revenge of the Cybermen. The Doctor calls him out on it in the novel and he drops the pretense completely. It's just a subroutine that gets switched off. Judging by the designs here, from my post way back in 2015 (my god, I was still academically unqualified!), these hyper-evolved Cybermen do match up with Neomorphs the strongest.
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Post by sherlock on Jul 15, 2018 8:25:22 GMT
Well, a lot of frustrating text box shenanigans later the family tree has been updated. Three new factions: -Fleet: A somewhat uninspired name for the Cybermen seen in Hour of the Cybermen and Silver Nemesis who are seemingly based in a Cyber-fleet. I've given them a link to both Mondasian and Planet 14, as there's no indication of which they came from originally. They could be time travellers, but there's nothing definitive to say that. -Imperial: Cybermen of 80s design in the 82nd Century ruled by a Cyber-Emperor. An off-shoot of the temporal scattering I theorise occurred after The Reaping
-26th Century: Another uninspired name (I do not have David Banks' skill at naming Cybermen) for the Cybermen of Earthshock. This is another off-shoot of the temporal scattering, hence them having records of Revenge. Indeed, nice work! One thing though, the Earthshock Cybermen also had a fleet on standby. The Cyberleader and his battalion were the initial vanguard, responsible for the ambush that would catch Earth authorities unawares. Their plan appeared to be hit the conference, kill the delegates and then, send in the fleet to maybe subjugate any survivors (any longterm invasion seemed almost like an afterthought). Their modus operandi (i.e. kill anything that moves) strikes me as a group that's much more assured in their numbers then would appear otherwise. The ArcHive Tapes written by David Banks theorised that the Cybermen in Attack were reacting directly to the fallout of Earthshock and were soon to be on the run (mining Telos with high-explosive, more fragile constructions, a heavier emphasis on conversion, etc.). I very much recommend the DWM comics, everything from the Fourth Doctor to the end of the Sixth is a great read. Apologies for making the story titles a bit tricky, but... yeah, both of their appearances come in stories without an overarching title. I've gotten into the habit of calling them The Six Champions ("Kane's Story", "Frobisher's Story", et al.) and The Sylvaniar Threat ("Exodus", "Revelation", "Genesis!"), respectively, just to avoid clutter. Although, the ones in the latter story could easily be from any Neomorph subgroup. A few thoughts (and two queries) - I hope these are of assistance [...] The Neomorphs *probably* evolve into the CyberLords because that scene in 'The Crystal Bucephalus' with Turlough and the toilets is, I think, Craig Hinton humorously extrapolating from the fact that '80s Cybermen are more emotional (angry, irritable, smug) than those from the 1960s and '70s. Interesting you say that: Killing Ground puts forward the idea that various later models simulate emotional responses in the same way a sociopath does. Just going through the motions to acquire a certain set of responses to whomever their emoting; e.g. rousing the Cyberleader to "anger" in Revenge of the Cybermen. The Doctor calls him out on it in the novel and he drops the pretense completely. It's just a subroutine that gets switched off. Judging by the designs here, from my post way back in 2015 (my god, I was still academically unqualified!), these hyper-evolved Cybermen do match up with Neomorphs the strongest. The difficulty with linking Attack to Earthshock is that Big Finish's Cyberman series depicts Telos as completely destroyed by an asteroid strike long before the date of Earthshock. The fleet accompanying the vanguard doesn't seem to be packing much firepower between them though, given they disperse almost immediately after the failure of the freighter (at least according to Nyssa). Perhaps the final Neomorph fleet in the Vortex consisted of thousands of ships, and thus the subset that ended up in 26th Century had a few hundred at their disposal. A reasonable fleet, but probably not really enough to directly assault Earth at the height of its first Empire. As for the CyberLords. Given their name as CyberLords, might they be developments of the Imperial offshoot of the Neomorphs?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 9:47:50 GMT
The difficulty with linking Attack to Earthshock is that Big Finish's Cyberman series depicts Telos as completely destroyed by an asteroid strike long before the date of Earthshock. The fleet accompanying the vanguard doesn't seem to be packing much firepower between them though, given they disperse almost immediately after the failure of the freighter (at least according to Nyssa). Perhaps the final Neomorph fleet in the Vortex consisted of thousands of ships, and thus the subset that ended up in 26th Century had a few hundred at their disposal. A reasonable fleet, but probably not really enough to directly assault Earth at the height of its first Empire. As for the CyberLords. Given their name as CyberLords, might they be developments of the Imperial offshoot of the Neomorphs? You're absolutely right, it can't be a direct continuation; I'd completely forgotten about Cyberman. Ah, that would logically place Attack at an earlier point in their history -- late 25th/early 26th century to accommodate Tomb.That makes a lot of sense. Roughly in this same period is Frontier in Space and the Daleks were just as surreptitious in their plans there as the Cybermen are here in Earthshock. If they aren't those time travellers, then they could theoretically be the survivors of the asteroid strike. Ending up back in the predicament they started in, spacefaring nomads (only this time with the technological leg-up afforded by their mix with the CyberTelosians). There's a kind of irony to that. Oh, it's certainly possible, they emerge roughly 200 years after that period in the 10th Millenium (100th century). Apparently as the benevolent force that the Time Lords predicted they would eventually become way back in The World Shapers.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 11, 2019 13:18:16 GMT
Just had a thought about the ‘Fleet’ faction after considering the dates for the UNIT trilogy given in Warlock’s Cross. {Spoiler} Warlock’s Cross establishes the grieving Daniel returned to UNIT work in 1986 (7 and a half years before the events of Warlock’s Cross), and Hour established he met the Cybermen shortly after, as his grief was pretty raw at the time.
This means the Cybermen that made contact with Daniel arrived in approximately 1986/87, mere months after the arrival (and destruction) of Mondas. Might it be that the ‘Fleet’ faction was an advance fleet sent from Planet 14 to liaise with Mondas when it has returned to its original orbit. When they arrived they discovered Mondas had been destroyed so made plans to conquer Earth, encountering Hopkins. Whilst the majority of the fleet went to harvest the alien world the refugees are from in Hour, a portion remained behind to monitor Earth in preparation. This portion tried to claim the Nemesis statue upon its arrival in 1988. The main fleet returned in 1989 and thus the events of Hour take place.
They presumably adopted the eighties design at some point in transit from Planet 14 to Earth, or perhaps to better strengthen themselves to invade Earth.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2019 6:18:57 GMT
I was watching an old episode of Andromeda and an idea hit me in regards to the many geneses of the Cybermen. Is it possible that after a while they began seeding primitive worlds with Cyber-technology? Not a full-scale invasion, as such, but a few conversion units here, spare parts there. Enough that cybernetics on a planet like Marinus, say, would evolve in such a way as to mimic Mondas?
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