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Post by randomjc on Nov 19, 2015 19:48:13 GMT
Cause it's a cool idea. and it does explain a lone 2nd Doctor who knows that Jamie and Zoe had their memories of him wiped in the Five Doctors. Its a terrible idea that completely ruins the perfect ending of The War Games. I don't see how it ruins the ending...
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Post by Zagreus on Nov 19, 2015 20:13:11 GMT
Its a terrible idea that completely ruins the perfect ending of The War Games. I don't see how it ruins the ending... The War Games has a rather powerful ending with a lot of dour finality to it. The Doctor has lost. He's sacrificed his livelyhood and his freedom for the sake of saving those that the War Lords scooped up throughout time, and lost his friends in the process. If, as it turns out, the Time Lords just turn around and let Two continue to travel around with his companions, then it takes a lot of the bite of the ending away. It becomes a bit soap-opera-ish. One of those "Everything CHANGES FOREVER but not really because here's the status quo again" things, instead of an actual big upheaval like it actually is meant to be. Personally, I like the TV Comic route, where Two is still exiled to earth without his companions, but he manages to stave off the regeneration, at least at first. I choose to place The Five Doctors during this little comic run between Action in Exile and The Night Walkers.
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 19, 2015 20:15:33 GMT
Its a terrible idea that completely ruins the perfect ending of The War Games. I don't see how it ruins the ending... The War Games ends with the Doctor having his friends taken away from him, having his appearance and personality forcible changed, and having his travels brought to an end. According to 6B, he got to continue travelling with Jamie, was allowed to keep his face for a while, and was allowed to continue on his travels as long as he helped out the CIA. The ending of The War Games is supposed to be the end of an era, but 6B has the era continue on well after its end.
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 19, 2015 20:19:46 GMT
Yes, I get that. I'm just saying I personally wouldn't consider 6B canon just based on the existence of The Two Doctors, but rather the fact that it is a published in-universe event that happened in World Game. Well, maybe 6B exists in the novel continuity, but it doesn't exist in the audio continuity. Spiral Scratch established that BF takes place in a different universe than the novels, and the fact that BF and the novels both give the Sixth Doctor different regenerations means that they don't exist in the same continuity.
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Post by randomjc on Nov 19, 2015 20:20:17 GMT
I don't see how it ruins the ending... The War Games ends with the Doctor having his friends taken away from him, having his appearance and personality forcible changed, and having his travels brought to an end. According to 6B, he got to continue travelling with Jamie, was allowed to keep his face for a while, and was allowed to continue on his travels as long as he helped out the CIA. The ending of The War Games is supposed to be the end of an era, but 6B has the era continue on well after its end. Still don't have a problem with it.
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 19, 2015 20:21:49 GMT
The War Games ends with the Doctor having his friends taken away from him, having his appearance and personality forcible changed, and having his travels brought to an end. According to 6B, he got to continue travelling with Jamie, was allowed to keep his face for a while, and was allowed to continue on his travels as long as he helped out the CIA. The ending of The War Games is supposed to be the end of an era, but 6B has the era continue on well after its end. Still don't have a problem with it. Okay. I still do.
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Post by randomjc on Nov 19, 2015 20:26:37 GMT
Still don't have a problem with it. Okay. I still do. Nothing can be done then to just disagree on a matter of taste. all that matters is we enjoy Who, and can find our joys in it, doesn't matter how we choose to apply our own beliefs on it.
And that's far more faux philosophical than I meant it to be, I guess I just want to find a polite way of saying I'm not changing my opinions, nor do I wish to change yours.
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 19, 2015 20:29:47 GMT
Nothing can be done then to just disagree on a matter of taste. all that matters is we enjoy Who, and can find our joys in it, doesn't matter how we choose to apply our own beliefs on it.
And that's far more faux philosophical than I meant it to be, I guess I just want to find a polite way of saying I'm not changing my opinions, nor do I wish to change yours.
Fair enough. It seems to me that BF has decided it doesn't exist, but I guess you can find ways to interpret it as existing if you want to.
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Post by randomjc on Nov 19, 2015 20:32:35 GMT
Nothing can be done then to just disagree on a matter of taste. all that matters is we enjoy Who, and can find our joys in it, doesn't matter how we choose to apply our own beliefs on it.
And that's far more faux philosophical than I meant it to be, I guess I just want to find a polite way of saying I'm not changing my opinions, nor do I wish to change yours.
Fair enough. It seems to me that BF has decided it doesn't exist, but I guess you can find ways to interpret it as existing if you want to. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Other battles I'll die for, *coughshalkadoctorcough* But, that's a fight for another day.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2015 20:51:14 GMT
Fair enough. It seems to me that BF has decided it doesn't exist, but I guess you can find ways to interpret it as existing if you want to. If it doesn't, it doesn't. Other battles I'll die for, *coughshalkadoctorcough* But, that's a fight for another day.
I don't have it ready at hand, but wasn't it mentionced in the Serpent Quest that the Second Doctor worked for the Time Lords after his trial? Given Big Finish's releases have been recgonised within the show itself, it seems this idea can be reconciled with The Black Hole.
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Post by randomjc on Nov 19, 2015 20:55:43 GMT
If it doesn't, it doesn't. Other battles I'll die for, *coughshalkadoctorcough* But, that's a fight for another day.
I don't have it ready at hand, but wasn't it mentionced in the Serpent Quest that the Second Doctor worked for the Time Lords after his trial? Given Big Finish's releases have been recgonised within the show itself, it seems this idea can be reconciled with The Black Hole. Isn't Serpent Quest separate from Big Finish?
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Post by Zagreus on Nov 19, 2015 20:58:11 GMT
If it doesn't, it doesn't. Other battles I'll die for, *coughshalkadoctorcough* But, that's a fight for another day.
I don't have it ready at hand, but wasn't it mentionced in the Serpent Quest that the Second Doctor worked for the Time Lords after his trial? Given Big Finish's releases have been recgonised within the show itself, it seems this idea can be reconciled with The Black Hole. It was mentioned by The Fourth Doctor that there was a time when he, in his Second incarnation, was running around by himself doing special work that he has little recollection of due to his memory being adjusted. The Black Hole rather accounts for that, and fits nicely with that explanation. It's not mentioned when in his second incarnation this was. So The Black Hole still fits with the Nest Cottage stuff.
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Post by omega on Nov 20, 2015 4:53:24 GMT
It's a few years too late to wonder if it's habit-forming. Farewell, Great Macedon came out in November of 2010, so it's exactly five years too late! The Stage Play release The Curse of the Daleks, released November 2008, used outside narration, so it's actually seven years too late. Arguably the Stage Plays needed it the most, since Ultimate Adventure is full of scene describing dialog that comes off as rather clunky. It's pretty much in the school of "that person is doing something" or "this object is moving in this way".
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Post by omega on Nov 20, 2015 5:01:33 GMT
A great story, with an excellent and unexpected villain reveal. I did feel that the bits around The Two Doctors was a bit fanfiction-y (kind of like the novels that made a point of fixing continuity errors or connecting continuity points). The memory wipe at the end is far too easy a reset switch, but to maintain continuity it kind of had to happen. The timey-wimey plot is a plus, it'll make future listens a bit more worth it. Highly innovative, and even a trans-gender regeneration to get the fanboys in a tizzy!
Does this come before or after the Graeme Garden incarnation of the Monk? Based on the extras, Simon Guerrier wrote this like it would have been in 1968, so most likely before.
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Post by jerryrotta on Nov 20, 2015 16:52:16 GMT
Does the Monk have a fully functioning Tardis? In The Book of Kells the Monk says he hasn't replaced the thing that the Doctor stole in Daleks' Masterplan.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 16:58:43 GMT
Does the Monk have a fully functioning Tardis? In The Book of Kells the Monk says he hasn't replaced the thing that the Doctor stole in Daleks' Masterplan. He seems to, so I'd say he comes after Garden Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
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Post by Zagreus on Nov 20, 2015 17:37:42 GMT
I posit that the remote he stole from the constable was allowing him to pilot his ship, and the loss of it set him back, as he still hadn't actually replaced the circuit the Doctor stole.
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Post by icecreamdf on Nov 20, 2015 19:33:23 GMT
Does the Monk have a fully functioning Tardis? In The Book of Kells the Monk says he hasn't replaced the thing that the Doctor stole in Daleks' Masterplan. I thought he just couldn't control the TARDIS. Surely he could get around just as well as the first two Doctors could.
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Post by elkawho on Nov 20, 2015 20:51:25 GMT
I really like this story, The reveal of the Monk was terrific and I loved Rufus Hound. I think giving Frazer a break and having someone else narrate this one was a very good decision. (Especially when the narrator is David Warner!) I thought he started having some trouble in the last two releases maintaining his separate voices, but I felt he was completely on his game in this one. I've never been a fan of Victoria, so I was luke warm regarding the character, but I though Deborah Watling did a good job, even thought her voice has aged quite a bit. Not happy that the next release will be the last with Two for a while.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2015 21:27:33 GMT
I don't have it ready at hand, but wasn't it mentionced in the Serpent Quest that the Second Doctor worked for the Time Lords after his trial? Given Big Finish's releases have been recgonised within the show itself, it seems this idea can be reconciled with The Black Hole. It was mentioned by The Fourth Doctor that there was a time when he, in his Second incarnation, was running around by himself doing special work that he has little recollection of due to his memory being adjusted. The Black Hole rather accounts for that, and fits nicely with that explanation. It's not mentioned when in his second incarnation this was. So The Black Hole still fits with the Nest Cottage stuff. Thanks
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