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Post by tuigirl on Nov 1, 2018 17:34:18 GMT
The issue, surely, is including the word ‘male’ or the word ‘female’. We should have strong characters in general. That should be the base line for everything we write. Just as the ideal is that we don’t talk about ‘male writers’ and ‘female writers’ and just use the word ‘writers’. All your characters should be ‘strong’.
And this is where the English language has a HUGE adventage to the German one, because we always have to feminize our nouns if we are talking about a female occupation. It is even considered sexist (!!) if you don't do it. Since I have lived in NZ for such a long time, I find this quite tedious and achieving the opposite of "equality" so I insist of doing it the English way and even use the male version when I introduce myself with my occupation (and already butted my head with some "feminists" over it).
I really think gender equality may already have a big head start in the English language.
Heck, I do not even know how they are going to do it when they dub (everything gets dubbed in Germany) series 11 with Jodie.
By all rights they have to use the female version of Doctor which sounds just totally wrong for my tastes.
Am I lucky I am only watching it in English...
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Post by Ela on Nov 1, 2018 19:43:02 GMT
I am excited about this set and will definitely get it. I kind of agree with this. While I think it was a nice (and I'm sure well-intentioned) thought to release this in honor of International Women's Day, the framing of the news story only serves to highlight the fact that women protagonists and women writers are much less common, instead of treating it as "we have these fantastic women in Doctor Who and we'd like to build a box set around their stories." And with this comment, you've touched on a concept that generally rubs me the wrong way: "strong female characters". Although you mention the Doctor as a "strong male character" in your post, the truth is that we don't habitually talk about male characters as strong. And we only talk about female characters as "strong" when they are not the victim, the romantic interest, or what have you side prop to the male hero. Not picking on you or trying to start a fight, just letting you (and everyone) know why I think the expression "strong female characters" should be a thing of the past. Why not just "female characters"? Or "popular female characters"? I actually had a long conversation with some forum members about the subject in this thread.I think it's a learning process and that some just need to catch up. (And to be honest, John Dorney, from what I've seen of your comments, you're more "caught up" then most.) As I said initially, looking forward to this set. I’m glad to hear I’m a little caught up! Honestly, I think I only used ‘strong female characters’ as a direct contrast to ‘strong male character’. I’m not a fan of the term ‘strong female character’, personally. I think it’s often misused or misintepreted and tends to be taken as making female characters literally, physically strong (in a kind of Joss Whedon, Buffy kind of way), when it should actually mean complex, deep and well rounded. When people talk about wanting ‘strong female characters’ that’s what they want, the gap they’re identifying. They want female characters to have just as much detail and complexity as the male characters - not to leave them bland cyphers who happen to be good with quips and fists. Personally speaking, I don’t think we should replace it with ‘female characters’ or ‘popular female characters’. Because both of those don’t imply the character being written with especial depth or nuance. I’m sure we could all think of examples of thin yet popular female characters. The issue, surely, is including the word ‘male’ or the word ‘female’. We should have strong characters in general. That should be the base line for everything we write. Just as the ideal is that we don’t talk about ‘male writers’ and ‘female writers’ and just use the word ‘writers’. All your characters should be ‘strong’. I like what you're saying here. You make some excellent points.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Nov 3, 2018 17:18:33 GMT
Yay the Paternoster Gang (yes it says so in the announcement) on audio for the first time!
I harboured hopes for them appearing in the 20th Anniversary releases unknown fifth story, but this will do nicely for an introduction, plus it is out sooner.
It must have been really hard for Big Finish to decide on what female characters would appear in this 8th of March set. With the lead actresses they already work with they could easily fill a second and even third such set!
I confess I did not recognise the significance of the date before this announcement, but I do now. Plus I see that the them for IWD 2019 starts “Time is Now..” which seems appropriate.
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Post by mrperson on Nov 4, 2018 21:27:27 GMT
I think I'll wait to hear reviews.
I have no gripes with the characters, it just.... . well frankly it feels gimmicky. (Well ok, some gripes: paternoster started feeling gimmicky, but that wasn't down to the actors/actresses, it was down to a certain someone's influence I suspect). I've been wrong before.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 9:57:48 GMT
Not a release that will hold any interest for me at all, it just whiffs of a gimmick and not a particularly interesting one.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 6, 2018 10:00:11 GMT
Not a release that will hold any interest for me at all, it just whiffs of a gimmick and not a particularly interesting one.
Okay, but do you not like a single character involved in this? I'm seriously wondering if you even like anything, the way you go on most of the time.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 10:03:55 GMT
Not a release that will hold any interest for me at all, it just whiffs of a gimmick and not a particularly interesting one.
Okay, but do you not like a single character involved in this? I'm seriously wondering if you even like anything, the way you go on most of the time. I'm going to basically ignore this because I think your angling for a fight. Try reading ALL my posts before you pass comment on the way I go on most of the time.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 6, 2018 10:08:28 GMT
Okay, but do you not like a single character involved in this? I'm seriously wondering if you even like anything, the way you go on most of the time. I'm going to basically ignore this because I think your angling for a fight. Try reading ALL my posts before you pass comment on the way I go on most of the time. Think again, I don't go angling for fights. I'm trying to understand. The last half-dozen posts I've seen from you, across four different threads, have been about how much you hate stuff. That's all. I'm legitimately asking... do you not like any of the characters in this set? You've said you don't like the Paternoster Gang, I get that. No interest in New UNIT either? Leela? Ace? Benny? River? Or is the gimmick that off-putting to you that you'd deprive yourself of stories with characters you like just to be contrary? I'm trying to understand you.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 10:14:03 GMT
I'm going to basically ignore this because I think your angling for a fight. Try reading ALL my posts before you pass comment on the way I go on most of the time. Think again, I don't go angling for fights. I'm trying to understand. The last half-dozen posts I've seen from you, across four different threads, have been about how much you hate stuff. That's all. I'm legitimately asking... do you not like any of the characters in this set? You've said you don't like the Paternoster Gang, I get that. No interest in New UNIT either? Leela? Ace? Benny? River? Or is the gimmick that off-putting to you that you'd deprive yourself of stories with characters you like just to be contrary? I'm trying to understand you.
" I'm seriously wondering if you even like anything, the way you go on most of the time". If that's not antagonistic then I'm the 14th Doctor ! Read ALL of my posts this morning, you're only picking and choosing what's suited you.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 6, 2018 10:16:56 GMT
Think again, I don't go angling for fights. I'm trying to understand. The last half-dozen posts I've seen from you, across four different threads, have been about how much you hate stuff. That's all. I'm legitimately asking... do you not like any of the characters in this set? You've said you don't like the Paternoster Gang, I get that. No interest in New UNIT either? Leela? Ace? Benny? River? Or is the gimmick that off-putting to you that you'd deprive yourself of stories with characters you like just to be contrary? I'm trying to understand you.
" I'm seriously wondering if you even like anything, the way you go on most of the time". If that's not antagonistic then I'm the 14th Doctor ! Read ALL of my posts this morning, you're only picking and choosing what's suited you. I'm just reading responses in threads that I'm following. I'm not trying to go out of my way to pick on you, nor do I mean to pick on you at all. Lower your defenses. I'm not out to get you, only trying to "get" you as in understand. I was being cheeky and sarcastic, sorry if that failed to come across, but I figured the smiley would help that scan. Guess it didn't.
Now, are you going to answer my question, and behave like an adult, or keep petulantly accusing me of something I didn't mean?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 10:24:44 GMT
" I'm seriously wondering if you even like anything, the way you go on most of the time". If that's not antagonistic then I'm the 14th Doctor ! Read ALL of my posts this morning, you're only picking and choosing what's suited you. I'm just reading responses in threads that I'm following. I'm not trying to go out of my way to pick on you, nor do I mean to pick on you at all. Lower your defenses. I'm not out to get you, only trying to "get" you as in understand. I was being cheeky and sarcastic, sorry if that failed to come across, but I figured the smiley would help that scan. Guess it didn't.
Now, are you going to answer my question, and behave like an adult, or keep petulantly accusing me of something I didn't mean?
" I'm just reading responses in threads that I'm following" - Don't make fleeting general assumptions on people based solely on the few threads you're following. " Now, are you going to answer my question, and behave like an adult, or keep petulantly accusing me of something I didn't mean?" - After another antagonistic response, the quick answer, NO. Have a great day.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 6, 2018 10:25:50 GMT
I'm just reading responses in threads that I'm following. I'm not trying to go out of my way to pick on you, nor do I mean to pick on you at all. Lower your defenses. I'm not out to get you, only trying to "get" you as in understand. I was being cheeky and sarcastic, sorry if that failed to come across, but I figured the smiley would help that scan. Guess it didn't.
Now, are you going to answer my question, and behave like an adult, or keep petulantly accusing me of something I didn't mean?
" I'm just reading responses in threads that I'm following" - Don't make fleeting general assumptions on people based solely on the few threads you're following. " Now, are you going to answer my question, and behave like an adult, or keep petulantly accusing me of something I didn't mean?" - After another antagonistic response, the quick answer, NO. Have a great day.
Fine then. Good on you, mate. Sorry something completely innocent online rankled you so much.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 10:31:45 GMT
" I'm just reading responses in threads that I'm following" - Don't make fleeting general assumptions on people based solely on the few threads you're following. " Now, are you going to answer my question, and behave like an adult, or keep petulantly accusing me of something I didn't mean?" - After another antagonistic response, the quick answer, NO. Have a great day.
Fine then. Good on you, mate. Sorry something completely innocent online rankled you so much. Don't talk down to me, I teach kids I'm not one myself. In any event apology accepted.
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 6, 2018 10:36:06 GMT
Fine then. Good on you, mate. Sorry something completely innocent online rankled you so much. Don't talk down to me, I teach kids I'm not one myself. In any event apology accepted.
I'm not talking down to you. I haven't once. If you read that in my tone, that's something you're bringing to this not me. I asked a question, was sarcastic about it, meant it to be funny. It didn't land, and I'm sorry about that. Then you spent the next several posts berating me about it. *shrug* Seems I'm damned whatever I do. I thought you were moving on. I was doing the same, and yet here you are again. *shrug* x2.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 18:58:56 GMT
Not a release that will hold any interest for me at all, it just whiffs of a gimmick and not a particularly interesting one.
Okay, but do you not like a single character involved in this? I'm seriously wondering if you even like anything, the way you go on most of the time. people are allowed to hold different opinions.I personally do not like the gang at all just as i do not like Torchwood at all.I do let others like it and still old true to my own thoughts and opinions.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 6, 2018 22:28:49 GMT
Okay, but do you not like a single character involved in this? I'm seriously wondering if you even like anything, the way you go on most of the time. people are allowed to hold different opinions.I personally do not like the gang at all just as i do not like Torchwood at all.I do let others like it and still old true to my own thoughts and opinions. I agree. For me there are too many people who get very defensive if anyone says something negative about Doctor Who. Not everything in the Doctor Who world is brilliant and some people do dislike certain things; be they characters, stories, novels, comics, audios, merchandise, TV episodes, etc... that's life, we all like different things. It's not a big deal.
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 7, 2018 3:51:01 GMT
I agree. For me there are too many people who get very defensive if anyone says something negative about Doctor Who. Not everything in the Doctor Who world is brilliant and some people do dislike certain things; be they characters, stories, novels, comics, audios, merchandise, TV episodes, etc... that's life, we all like different things. It's not a big deal. Sure, but it's also been known to test people's patience if it seems like that's all a person does is say negative things about Doctor Who or Big Finish or has to put a particular thing down for the tenth time in a week. It's fine not to like something obviously but with this it does almost pain me slightly to hear people describe it almost as if maybe Big Finish has some grand evil plan to cash in on women or something with this. Perhaps I might feel differently if any of the numerous wonderful women involved start talking about it like that, or if the first time Big Finish afforded significant opportunities to women had come after a female Doctor? It's not like I'm really one to talk, I was hollering about how a female Doctor was all gimmicky not that long ago, but TV can get to be about doing desperate things purely to try bolster ratings sometimes because the stakes can be so high, so naturally I was inclined to scrutinize the motivation - but maybe at least Big Finish deserve a little more benefit of a doubt as to integrity? people are allowed to hold different opinions.I personally do not like the gang at all just as i do not like Torchwood at all.I do let others like it and still old true to my own thoughts and opinions. Well of course and that's how it should be but I wish I knew how to share some different perspective on Torchwood or the Paternoster Gang with others because I enjoy them both so much (even if I might have to ignore the occasional grown-up bits) and of course I wish you found some enjoyment in them because you seem to have such fun with the things that you do like (and often surprisingly similar taste to my own). It is a mystery, which is not necessarily a good thing for some of us OCD-types to have in front of us, I seem to spend a little too much time wondering what on Earth you have against Torchwood. Mulder and Scully should open a file on this at once. :-) Possibly you don't know the answer either, which is fine - it's also perfectly okay not to know exactly why you do or don't like something. I just find it a little weird that you seem to sound a bit down on "PC" or "adult" lately but you don't strike me as the sort of person who really has that kind of troubles (is that why it says "grain of salt" under your avatar?) Maybe I don't even know why I like the Paternosters so much, it's probably complicated - my first OS memory, The Sontaran Experiment... my first NS memory, Strax in The Snowmen... hmmmm, that's probably in there somewhere - but I still think they're all brilliant characters in their own right, and four sets on offer easily suggests to me that Big Finish are confident they can do worthwhile things with them. (With all of 13 stories to think about they are obviously aware you can't make 13 stories out of just Strax calling the barmaid "boy") :-) With this set, regardless of how it's marketed, I also think River and Leela is quite likely to be a most wonderful meet-up. As with River and Bernice in Legacy of Time, I'm not completely sure why and no idea how it will go, but I just have to hear it. So, Torchwood... You probably hate Torchwood for Jack, Gwen, Ianto, Owen and Suzie, but have you ever tried liking it for Tosh? What's Tosh ever done to p*ss anyone off? :-) Oh, never mind... To each their own, it's much easier that way :-)
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 6:25:17 GMT
I agree. For me there are too many people who get very defensive if anyone says something negative about Doctor Who. Not everything in the Doctor Who world is brilliant and some people do dislike certain things; be they characters, stories, novels, comics, audios, merchandise, TV episodes, etc... that's life, we all like different things. It's not a big deal. Sure, but it's also been known to test people's patience if it seems like that's all a person does is say negative things about Doctor Who or Big Finish or has to put a particular thing down for the tenth time in a week. It's fine not to like something obviously but with this it does almost pain me slightly to hear people describe it almost as if maybe Big Finish has some grand evil plan to cash in on women or something with this. Perhaps I might feel differently if any of the numerous wonderful women involved start talking about it like that, or if the first time Big Finish afforded significant opportunities to women had come after a female Doctor? It's not like I'm really one to talk, I was hollering about how a female Doctor was all gimmicky not that long ago, but TV can get to be about doing desperate things purely to try bolster ratings sometimes because the stakes can be so high, so naturally I was inclined to scrutinize the motivation - but maybe at least Big Finish deserve a little more benefit of a doubt as to integrity? people are allowed to hold different opinions.I personally do not like the gang at all just as i do not like Torchwood at all.I do let others like it and still old true to my own thoughts and opinions. Well of course and that's how it should be but I wish I knew how to share some different perspective on Torchwood or the Paternoster Gang with others because I enjoy them both so much (even if I might have to ignore the occasional grown-up bits) and of course I wish you found some enjoyment in them because you seem to have such fun with the things that you do like (and often surprisingly similar taste to my own). It is a mystery, which is not necessarily a good thing for some of us OCD-types to have in front of us, I seem to spend a little too much time wondering what on Earth you have against Torchwood. Mulder and Scully should open a file on this at once. :-) Possibly you don't know the answer either, which is fine - it's also perfectly okay not to know exactly why you do or don't like something. I just find it a little weird that you seem to sound a bit down on "PC" or "adult" lately but you don't strike me as the sort of person who really has that kind of troubles (is that why it says "grain of salt" under your avatar?) Maybe I don't even know why I like the Paternosters so much, it's probably complicated - my first OS memory, The Sontaran Experiment... my first NS memory, Strax in The Snowmen... hmmmm, that's probably in there somewhere - but I still think they're all brilliant characters in their own right, and four sets on offer easily suggests to me that Big Finish are confident they can do worthwhile things with them. (With all of 13 stories to think about they are obviously aware you can't make 13 stories out of just Strax calling the barmaid "boy") :-) With this set, regardless of how it's marketed, I also think River and Leela is quite likely to be a most wonderful meet-up. As with River and Bernice in Legacy of Time, I'm not completely sure why and no idea how it will go, but I just have to hear it. So, Torchwood... You probably hate Torchwood for Jack, Gwen, Ianto, Owen and Suzie, but have you ever tried liking it for Tosh? What's Tosh ever done to p*ss anyone off? :-) Oh, never mind... To each their own, it's much easier that way :-) I have forgotten how to highlight bits i want to talk about 😃🤭. So i have just quoted everything. My views are not to offend anyone irritate them or in any way attacking them.I do seem to be a minority about some things and thats okay,I do not mind. The Female Doctor-I do not feel Jodie in the role at all as much as i try i just cant get into it.I didn’t see the necessity for a Female Doctor.I didn’t see the necessity for the gender changing Time Lord Ladies.It doesnt make me a woman hater or behind the times or misogynist.It will always be a male role to me.I would have been more than open to the travels of Romana hijacking a Tardis to escape the presidency as a TV show.I would have watched The Doctor could have finally died but a new creation would have been born. Paternoster-I just felt as if the Victorian era was already serviced with Jago and Litefoot and introducing these Characters just made that world a little overcrowded.The throw away sexual comments were i felt unnecessary for a show that many children watch yes many dont get the meanings but many do.The ridicule of an alien threat in the Sontarans detracted from the true menace of the race.It was,the gang an attempt to mimic a successful Jago and Litefoot that for me didn’t work. Torchwood-just didn’t not enjoy it some people like Parmesan cheese some really really do not.I didn’t like the character of Jack at all.Gwen i liked but not enough to continue the show and all the actors are excellent.Jack was one of those characters that was juvenile (irresponsible IMO sexually too)The storylines of the series were just poor Doctor who Spin Off.All these secret organistations in the Doctor who Universe Unit Counter Measures Torchwood all these constant alien invasions SJA,Class...it kind of stretched believability for me in even my imagination.Ps i do enjoy the New Unit Stories. There is an audience out there for Class for Torchwood and for Paternoster and thats great in my imagination they get rewritten out so i can continue my Doctor who journey without including them 😂 I think people get too upset when people hold differing opinions,hell even in families people do not agree they do not block each other or try to claim they are right or get totally upset about what others say. But there is a time and place for ADULT material i just dont want it in my Audios thats just me and we have to be careful of younger listeners.we have that responsibility to them and I believe BF has a great Many it is like walking into a Comic book store looking at a cover of say SAGA -oh i think my kid might love that Without skimming every page.Just like buying your kid Grand Theft Auto just because its a video game. Doctor who was about great stories not about who slept with who who was gay who was straight who had an orgy or how many husbands River actually some people think it adds to the show i think it diminished it. Dark Shadows-it had a teatime viewing in the early evening and i do love the audios and it should tread carefully in case young watchers of the tv show now on amazon prime decide to watch and then listen.We have that responsibility.One moment in the Bloodlust were a character ages from a child to a young adult and then another character begins to say how Hot the aged character was just annoyed me really and thats been the only time i though-nope thats wrong. anyways i hope that answers some of your questions.I like the diverse opinions i enjoy reading them.I love the occasional sniper who comes in and fires his shots and leaves makes me laugh.It makes me laugh when someone awards a five star and am like did we watch the same episode?That is just life. and dont worry we can still be forum friends differing opinions or not 😎
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Post by TimPendragon on Nov 7, 2018 7:28:07 GMT
Okay, but do you not like a single character involved in this? I'm seriously wondering if you even like anything, the way you go on most of the time. people are allowed to hold different opinions.I personally do not like the gang at all just as i do not like Torchwood at all.I do let others like it and still old true to my own thoughts and opinions. I never said anyone wasn't allowed to hold a different opinion. As I said upthread, the post you quoted was a snarky commentary on fact that the last six posts I'd seen from him had all been about how much his disliked different things, and it was getting a little "eye-roll worthy" across the threads I read. I was trying to figure out why he held his opinon, but he decided to argue instead. *shrug* Oh, well.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2018 7:34:08 GMT
people are allowed to hold different opinions.I personally do not like the gang at all just as i do not like Torchwood at all.I do let others like it and still old true to my own thoughts and opinions. I never said anyone wasn't allowed to hold a different opinion. As I said upthread, the post you quoted was a snarky commentary on fact that the last six posts I'd seen from him had all been about how much his disliked different things, and it was getting a little "eye-roll worthy" across the threads I read. I was trying to figure out why he held his opinon, but he decided to argue instead. *shrug* Oh, well. It happens...lets all have a group hug 😎🖐
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