The "Joke Police": A Discussion

1 of my favourite comedians of ALL time, and I had the pleasure of meeting him.. Andrew Dice Clay. the Diceman.

I find him hilarious, nothing was sacred to him (except Holocaust jokes because he is jewish).

This is why there are laws, certainly here, about hate crimes and incitement which cover verbal abuse too, not just physical abuse. A few comics have been in legal issues due to targeting someone for their sexuality or religion.  You can absolutely go after, say, organised religion - most comics do - but you can't target one person for their religion or sexuality. Comics like Jim Davison and Roy Chubby Brown may call that "PC gone mad" - I call it human decency.

However it's not that which I think is the issue. Of course none of the illegal stuff is OK but there's no rulebook for the stuff that's legal yet taboo. Some of the comics I named above in my first post say the most outrageous things but they find a context or an insight for it that elevates is from shock for the sake of it.

Again, it's about the freedom. Penn and Teller's famous bit where they "burn" an American flag got them death threats when they first did it but they were making the same point I firmly believe in, that liberty is more important than just about anything. Living in a society where you can push the envelope, where you can offend, where you can think differently...it's priceless because it protects us all from being victims. Make fun of the ruling class in Dubai or North Korea, see what happens. We've got the freedom they don't. Curtailing it in any way - unless it's like the examples above of hate crime and incitement - is capitulation. You don't need to excercise those freedoms - most won't - but encouraging the comedians to go far, the filmmakers like Lars Von Trier or Pasolini to make "immoral" films and musicians to make sounds that terrifies parents...it's fundamental to me. What happens when a government get in who don't want to just police comedy, but all art and therefore expression itself? 

And to underline again - the right of the artist to do that doesn't mean you don't absolutely have the right to boo them off the stage when you think they've gone too far.  The freedom goes both ways - and that's just as it should be.

That is what I said. Comedy is fine. Abuse masquerading as comedy isn't.

So I'm back and have come to read Davy and Digi both say what I think in a much better way, so I'll only expand on it.

    For me personally, I love dark humour and offensive jokes and there is a couple of reasons why. One is the fact that they are clearly jokes(if their not and there is an intent to hurt, such as Rosanne's tweet this year, it's usually pretty obvious). And jokes are just that, a way to find the light in even the darkness of things, to help others. I know many people, including me, that use humour, dark especially, to deal with tough situations, and while that doesn't equate to proof that everyone does, it does still mean that it is a perfectly normal way of handling things such as grief. A really good example of this is the song Come Home(Cardinal Pell) by Tim Minchin. The song itself is a scathing indictment of the man in question but also uses it's runtime by offering support for the victims of the Catholic Church's sexual assault of thousands of children and their attempts to cover it up. On top of that, joking about something is not the same as believing in something. A comedian by the name of Jim Jeffries explains this very well when he says that you can joke about anything, a joke doesn't mean intent or support of the particular topic. Someone can joke about Bill Cosby and all the rapes that he committed, it does not mean that they support him, agree with him etc.

    Another important part of this subject is the offence that can ensue. I think it is very important to recognize the fact that if a joke offends you, that's okay. It doesn't mean you need to get up in arms about it. Offence is perfectly normal feeling and to spend your time trying to stop people from doing anything that might cause someone to become in the slightest way "triggered" is counter-productive and will eventually lead to people saying the same things even louder. Really what you should do is just not listen, and carry one. Let people enjoy it, and don't give it another thought. The other part of this is timing and when is it okay to joke about certain things. A good example of this is joking about recent tragedies, such as the Boston Marathon. Anthony Jesselnik is a comedian famous for tweeting out a joke about a tragedy the day it happens, and upsets a lot of people. But, when you actually take the time to understand why he does it, it makes a lot of sense, and even if you don't agree with him, it gives you thought. I'd highly suggest people seek out the bit itself, not only because it is outrageously funny in a dry and sardonic British way, but from an American, in things such as talking about what lines you can cross when joking about the Boston Marathon, but it is also one of the most thought provoking comedy bits in the last couple of years.

    The last thing I want to address is the punching up, not down argument. I do agree with the sentiment behind it, however "punching down" can be an okay thing when used in caution etc. For example, and Godwin's Law is about to appear, jokes at the expense of people such as Hitler, ISIS or even smaller people and criminals such as Bill Cosby as mentioned earlier or Oscar Pistorius, people don't get mad at because of their actions, but when it is done to other people, it becomes a grey area. So again, punching down can be acceptable but it is especially risky and must be done with the upmost mindfulness one can muster.

    Finally, I recently saw one of Jimmy Carr's stand up special's and at the very end he made a joke in solidarity of French comedians who made a joke about Mohammad and were killed for it, and I want to take much of a similar approach, but as a general acknowledgement to anyone who has been punished for exercising their freedom of speech in a respectful manner, whether it be in comedy, politics, religion or anything else. So in saying that I want to share two jokes to end my post. And I've made sure that it isn't obscene, vulgar, racist etc. but a simple observational joke and a simple play on words.

You'd think that the Catholic Church would be in favour of condoms... less DNA evidence.
What is the best part of an ISIS joke. The execution

If you’ve made a reasonable effort to be sure that it cannot reasonably be perceived to be in poor taste to the target audience, it’s fine. If you deliberately play it pizza cutter (all edge no point), you know you will annoy someone, porbbakh quite a few someone’s, rethink your material. There can be outside factors that change everything (the trope is Harsher in Hindsight, or Funny Anuerism Moment after a line in a Buffy episode), but if you have enough time to salvage or rethink your material so it doesn’t come off as in spectacularly bad taste, you shouldn’t be too bad.

There are jokes and stereotypes that have aged very poorly, and that’s something to take note of. Even in a non comedy setting it’s important to be aware. Both the subject and audience need to be factored in to know what will appeal and what will appall. In this very PC minded age it’s especially important.

That’s where the target audience comes in. Know your audience, what will appeal, appall and how it may be perceived by those on the periphery. It’s a fine balancing act, but don’t be upset because a minority are indignant for the sake of being indignant. You wouldn’t show a kid Rick and Morty just as there aren’t many adults who would be keen to watch something produced by the Disney Channel, because these are different audiences, and the humour is targeted at different demographics.

Best scenario ever IMO.. The Legendary comedian Andrew Dice Clay , at the height of his career in the 80's when he sold out Madison Sqaure Gardens multiple nights in a row Before any other comedian.. In between gigs around Xmas he purposely booked himself into a club that was the total opposite humour to his .. total off night.. small crowd about 20-50 people... most of them had never heard of him. He shows up with no pre-prepared material.. And just winged it like the genius he is, basically went around the room "picking" on people in his usual funny as hell way. It was recorded as a Live comedy album called "The Day The Laughter Died.. part 2"..

Total uncomfortable silences in between jokes the audience didn't know how to handle "those" extreme adult jokes.. Theres 1 person right at the back who "gets it".. He is laughing his bottom off the ENTIRE 2 hour set, total off the cuff no time wasting ad libbing... At the end the last joke is called "The Argument".. He basically gets into a fist fight with a member of the audience. They are pulled apart before coming to blows but they did rush each other..

All comedians to this day talk about the "genius" of this album- it was so brave to purposely have all the elements go against yourself. From the 1st joke which I won't repeat.. to the argument at the end.. it still cracks me up afte having the casette/cd versions for 25+ years...

Youtube "The Hourback" joke.. He conditioned the crowd to roar with laughter over a joke that doesn't actually make Any sense but it's hysterical in his particular tone and delivery.

I used to drive 1 of my old old early 90's work managers NUTS over the hourback joke.. He had serious mental health issues so I probably wasn't helping him LOL. We lost contact but met up by chance about 15 years later, he told me he was Still trying to work out the secret to the hourback joke and it very nearly sent him back over the edge mentally..

I told him the secret in like 3 seconds.. the years of stress melted and he ended up crying with laughter

Thats what ground breaking edgy forward thinking humour can do IMO