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Post by omega on Dec 4, 2018 8:37:27 GMT
DOCTOR WHO - MAIN RANGE » 18. THE STONES OF VENICEReleased March 2001SynopsisThe Doctor and Charley decide to take a well-deserved break from the monotony of being chased, shot at and generally suffering anti-social behaviour at the hands of others. And so they end up in Venice, well into Charley's future, as the great city prepares to sink beneath the water for the last time... Which would be a momentous, if rather dispiriting, event to witness in itself. However, the machinations of a love-sick aristocrat, a proud art historian and a rabid High Priest of a really quite dodgy cult combine to make Venice's swansong a night to remember. And then there's the rebellion by the web-footed amphibious underclass, the mystery of a disappearing corpse and the truth behind a curse going back further than curses usually do. The Doctor and Charley are forced to wonder just what they have got themselves involved with this time... Written By: Paul Magrs Directed By: Gary Russell CASTPaul McGann (The Doctor); India Fisher (Charley Pollard); Michael Sheard (Count Orsino); Elaine Ives-Cameron (Ms Lavish / Estella); Nick Scovell (Churchwell); Barnaby Edwards (Pietro); Mark Gatiss (Vincenzo)
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Post by omega on Dec 4, 2018 8:54:15 GMT
This is a story very rich in atmosphere, between the poetic words written by Paul Magrs and the gorgeous music. The story is set in the 23rd century, but the atmosphere is timeless and never seems futuristic even with the alien character and technology. A Venice that's drowning would be a wonderful setting for a video game. Even though the plot splits the Doctor and Charley for much of the story, they have great chemistry for their first story together.
Some plot elements do seem underdeveloped, like the class inequality between the humans and the gondaliers, whose amphibious nature and evolution are something that aren't developed beyond motive for them taking over the city after it's drowned. There's some wonderfully evocative lines about this, them swimming in palaces and bedrooms of princesses (very video game imagery). The time Count Orsino has wasted lamenting his situation and his lost Estella in another thread that's more tell than show.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 4, 2018 10:56:38 GMT
I agree, very atmospheric story. I enjoyed it and think it is a bit underrated.
This one also started the trend of putting Charley on drugs which became a bit tiresome after a while.
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Post by omega on Dec 4, 2018 11:23:18 GMT
I agree, very atmospheric story. I enjoyed it and think it is a bit underrated. This one also started the trend of putting Charley on drugs which became a bit tiresome after a while. At least she didn’t end up in an orgy this time. There is some nice world building at play, subtly done.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,785
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 4, 2018 12:00:53 GMT
It is so long since I listened to this it seems like another lifetime.
Overall I enjoyed it. Traditional, yet different at the same time. One of the best by Paul Magrs.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 4, 2018 12:31:44 GMT
I agree, very atmospheric story. I enjoyed it and think it is a bit underrated. This one also started the trend of putting Charley on drugs which became a bit tiresome after a while. At least she didn’t end up in an orgy this time. There is some nice world building at play, subtly done. Well, even if, she didn't stay long...
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Post by elkawho on Dec 4, 2018 14:53:37 GMT
I'm in the minority with this one. I've never enjoyed it. I don't hate it, but I don't like it. Yes, it is atmospheric, but I don't particularly like the atmosphere. And I do not like Charley in this one at all. Sorry, not a fan.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Dec 4, 2018 15:32:13 GMT
Its a bit slow in places but theres a great story going on
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Post by mrperson on Dec 5, 2018 22:48:22 GMT
This one is allright. Seemed rather odd to me - _why_ are the people are partying before they die instead of, y'know, leaving - but it was reasonable enough. No magic, alien thingy, yadda yadda.
It just didn't really add up to much for me
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Post by drj on Dec 5, 2018 23:00:28 GMT
I’m going to have to relisten to this and report back in a few days to do it justice!
Very supportive of bringing back discussion on the early stories.
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Post by masterdoctor on Dec 5, 2018 23:55:36 GMT
I think a low point in the early years of Big Finish. Just a lot of serviceable idea in a very plain, dull and boring package with one of the worst performances I think a Doctor and Companion have given in an audio, others being Land of the Dead and Winter for the Adept.
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,647
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Post by shutupbanks on Dec 6, 2018 1:01:59 GMT
I'm in the minority with this one. I've never enjoyed it. I don't hate it, but I don't like it. Yes, it is atmospheric, but I don't particularly like the atmosphere. And I do not like Charley in this one at all. Sorry, not a fan. I'm in the same boat, but Paul Magrs has always been that way for me: I've read three of his novels and listened to several of his plays and just come away with a "meh." I don't know why: he writes about themes that interest me in settings that interest me, he uses words and phrases that resonate with me but I just don't click with his style.
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Post by eric009 on Dec 8, 2018 21:02:29 GMT
I'm in the minority with this one. I've never enjoyed it. I don't hate it, but I don't like it. Yes, it is atmospheric, but I don't particularly like the atmosphere. And I do not like Charley in this one at all. Sorry, not a fan. same it's just one of the those don't work for me
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 22:15:28 GMT
I'm in the minority with this one. I've never enjoyed it. I don't hate it, but I don't like it. Yes, it is atmospheric, but I don't particularly like the atmosphere. And I do not like Charley in this one at all. Sorry, not a fan. I'm not really a fan either, it's surprisingly thin on plot for a Paul Magrs story. The atmosphere is very powerful, and the music plays a large part in this (I still miss Russell Stone's scores) and yet, despite Mark Gatiss giving us his best Christopher Lee impression and the presence of Michael Sheard, it just doesn't do anything for me. Of this initial Eighth Doctor series, it is always the following Minuet in Hell that gets slated, but I prefer that story to this one.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 8, 2018 23:56:23 GMT
Michael Sheard though. Must have been BFs first non-Doctor casting coup.
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Post by drj on Dec 8, 2018 23:59:01 GMT
The Christopher Lee impression is fun. Some of the atmospherics are good, but somehow it doesn’t quite work and feels a little flat. I can’t quite put my finger on why, even after a relisten. It’s mostly ok though and I’ll go for a 3/5. In my books at least, it’s a lot better than Minuet in Hell. I really didn’t like that one. Usually though, I love 8 and Charley. The run with Chimes of Midnight is very special.
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Post by omega on Dec 9, 2018 0:04:51 GMT
The Christopher Lee impression is fun. Some of the atmospherics are good, but somehow it doesn’t quite work and feels a little flat. I can’t quite put my finger on why, even after a relisten. It’s mostly ok though and I’ll go for a 3/5. In my books at least, it’s a lot better than Minuet in Hell. I really didn’t like that one. Usually though, I love 8 and Charley. The run with Chimes of Midnight is very special. Minuet in Hell isn't a tough one to beat quality-wise. Stones of Venice is very style over substance, and it is very stylish.
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Post by masterdoctor on Dec 9, 2018 0:31:33 GMT
By far and away worse than Minuet in hell because Minuet tried to do something with its premise. Also Stones isn’t stylish, it’s just a bunch of stylistic ideas thrown together. One of worst 8 and Charley stories and their are a lot of them.
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Post by omega on Dec 9, 2018 0:36:32 GMT
By far and away worse than Minuet in hell because Minuet tried to do something with its premise. Also Stones isn’t stylish, it’s just a bunch of stylistic ideas thrown together. One of worst 8 and Charley stories and their are a lot of them. You really like Pretty Little Satin Bottoms, the Eighth Doctor getting amnesia (he really should invest in a diary considering how often he loses his memory), discount Buffy the demon hunter, poor man's satanists and godawful accents that make Dick Van Dyke's cockney sound normal over this?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 1:13:26 GMT
By far and away worse than Minuet in hell because Minuet tried to do something with its premise. Also Stones isn’t stylish, it’s just a bunch of stylistic ideas thrown together. One of worst 8 and Charley stories and their are a lot of them. You really like Pretty Little Satin Bottoms, the Eighth Doctor getting amnesia (he really should invest in a diary considering how often he loses his memory), discount Buffy the demon hunter, poor man's satanists and godawful accents that make Dick Van Dyke's cockney sound normal over this? The original Minuet in Hell's rather good. The Doctor's locked up in Bedlam, the rituals have to do with the Hellfire Club and the creatures responsible for fostering it have a very special connection to Gallifrey. It comes off more like the ritualists in Robin of Sherwood then something from Buffy (I wonder if the Satanic Panic of the decade helped with the atmosphere?). I think I might prefer this to the rewrite of Minuet, though, it moves like an art film. Paul Magrs has this very particular style here where it feels like you're swimming through the set pieces, it's very lyrical and fantastical. Dreamlike, almost.
I think it's fine. The Wormery (an important cornerstone for post-Trial Sixie) and The Peterloo Massacre (a grounded story about selfishness and injustice), both by Magrs, will always get me jumping out of my seat going: "This is what it's all about!" It's less earthy than those entries, The Stones of Venice feels like an exploration of those TVM production values in audio form. Like a city about to nod off to sleep. Nice.
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