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Post by pawntake on Jul 6, 2019 20:41:27 GMT
Have enjoyed all the War Master boxsets so far,but for me this one was the best!!!! Absolutely utterly brilliant!!! Devilish,fiendish,satanic,Mephistophelian,demonic,hellish,infernal,evil,wicked,ungodly,unholy,and just downright diabolical with shades of the salem witch trials thrown in for good measure.it was a frightful,appalling,atrocious joy!!!!!! Rage over!!!!
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Post by IndieMacUser on Jul 7, 2019 13:45:51 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2019 15:27:08 GMT
Worse than the 2nd one? I'll give this a miss.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 7, 2019 15:39:03 GMT
Great review. I agree with you in most points and you are certainly right about the writing and the pacing. And yes, this is not as good as the first one. The first one was a one of its kind. However, I enjoyed this a lot more. The interaction between the Master and the Doctor alone make it worth it.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jul 8, 2019 6:39:53 GMT
Loved it, a cracking four hours of intense audio drama, Derek Jacobi has got this role down pitch perfect with the devious cunning & manipulative nature of the character & hearing the verbal sparring between him & Paul McGanns Doctor was the icing on the cake.
I rate this a high 4/5.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 9, 2019 12:37:53 GMT
Managed to make some progress with Rage of the Time Lords at last.
I think The Survivor is, at its core, The Master of Callous in a nutshell, much like Call of the Dead, albeit retrospectively. The Master has his target in sight and manipulates their life, before disposing of that life when he’s finished. But it’s presented well in this, the characters feel rounded, especially Alice, and their relationships are reflected in their interactions. The Master doesn’t feel like he’s supporting in this one, compared with the previous set, and gets some great material.
The Coney Island Chameleon is a prime example of diminishing returns, I think. It tries to be like my previous example of Call of the Dead and The Survivor, but it fails where those succeed and that’s its central characters. Sabatini and Esther don’t feel rounded or developed. They feel quite generic and inevitably doomed, rather than fleshed out and grey like Cole and Alice. It might not help that it’s comes directly after The Survivor, but I think I’d feel the same regardless. The accents aren’t very good either, I’m afraid!
As I was a little delayed in my listening, I saw that Scott Hancock recommended slotting in Concealed Weapon between episodes two and three, so I did just that. It’s a great story and really held up to a relisten. Derek Jacobi is just fantastic, isn’t he? He’s so calm, measured and calculated. This is an incarnation of the Master that wins. I can’t wait to see how the Doctor fares in the next two episodes.
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Post by elkawho on Jul 10, 2019 2:46:17 GMT
I found the Master so disturbing in The Survivor that I had to turn it off in the middle. I was very upset about what he was doing to Alice and I needed a break. I don't know why, but I found the manipulation of this girl's life so completely horrific. I enjoyed The Coney Island Chameleon a lot, but not to the same level as that first story, and was completely taken in and surprised by the ending.
The last 2 stories were excellent. I was surprised that we didn't see Sabatini again, especially since we were invested in the character. I liked the way they brought the Doctor into this story, and how he made him forget. He does not beat the Master. I need to say it again....HE DOES NOT BEAT THE MASTER. I knew that it had to happen every once in a while, but never thought we'd see it.
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Post by tuigirl on Jul 10, 2019 9:49:33 GMT
I found the Master so disturbing in The Survivor that I had to turn it off in the middle. I was very upset about what he was doing to Alice and I needed a break. I don't know why, but I found the manipulation of this girl's life so completely horrific. I enjoyed The Coney Island Chameleon a lot, but not to the same level as that first story, and was completely taken in and surprised by the ending. The last 2 stories were excellent. I was surprised that we didn't see Sabatini again, especially since we were invested in the character. I liked the way they brought the Doctor into this story, and how he made him forget. He does not beat the Master. I need to say it again....HE DOES NOT BEAT THE MASTER. I knew that it had to happen every once in a while, but never thought we'd see it. I am glad I am not the only one who has a hard time listening to the Master's malice. I think it is the mark of very good writing that a fictional over-the-top character can invoke such emotional responses in us, but as good as the stories are, I do not necessarily find them enjoyable.
I quite like the idea of the Doctor losing every once in a while. It raises the stakes. And this is the Master's story, after all. It would have felt wrong if the Doctor had won.
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Post by elkawho on Jul 10, 2019 11:18:16 GMT
I found the Master so disturbing in The Survivor that I had to turn it off in the middle. I was very upset about what he was doing to Alice and I needed a break. I don't know why, but I found the manipulation of this girl's life so completely horrific. I enjoyed The Coney Island Chameleon a lot, but not to the same level as that first story, and was completely taken in and surprised by the ending. The last 2 stories were excellent. I was surprised that we didn't see Sabatini again, especially since we were invested in the character. I liked the way they brought the Doctor into this story, and how he made him forget. He does not beat the Master. I need to say it again....HE DOES NOT BEAT THE MASTER. I knew that it had to happen every once in a while, but never thought we'd see it. I am glad I am not the only one who has a hard time listening to the Master's malice. I think it is the mark of very good writing that a fictional over-the-top character can invoke such emotional responses in us, but as good as the stories are, I do not necessarily find them enjoyable.
I quite like the idea of the Doctor losing every once in a while. It raises the stakes. And this is the Master's story, after all. It would have felt wrong if the Doctor had won.
Agreed, if the Master is going to win, it should be in his boxset. I also agree that the Doctor can't win every time. Excellent listening.
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 10, 2019 18:03:57 GMT
The Missing Link and Darkness & Light made for a brilliant finale. The Doctor is really put through the wringer in this one! Paul McGann plays it slightly differently in this set of episodes and he’s fantastic; I think it’s probably one of his best performances. The interaction between the Doctor and the Master is sizzling, especially given there’s no history or backstory between these two incarnations.
It’s the performances of McGann & Derek Jacobi that sells Darkness & Light. If it wasn’t for them, then the story would be little more than exposition. That’s not a bad thing, but it needs a good cast to really make those sort of stories. Fortunately they have it here!
The return of Alice was nice and I think it really sold the Master’s plan throughout this set. The lack of throwback from The Coney Island Chameleon makes that episode seem all the more disparate, though.
Another great set from this range, which is becoming one of my favourites from Big Finish. The Coney Island Chameleon is a bit of a blip, but I think listening with Concealed Weapon elevates the set that little bit more.
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mbt66
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Post by mbt66 on Aug 10, 2019 15:04:05 GMT
This set appealed to me more than the previous one.
However I was disappointed in the ending with regard to the Doctor’s memory. I had hoped they would have gone with the Superman’s glasses explanation for the 10th Doctor not recognising the Master as that would have opened up so many opportunities for the Jacobi Master to meet the other Doctors. As it is will we get more memory wipes in Ravenous 3 or will they keep the Eighth Doctor well away from the War Master?
This is just a slight niggle with an otherwise very enjoyable and fun set.
Roll on Anti-Genesis and I keep wondering if there will be another cast member to be announced with that set...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 17:56:55 GMT
Roll on Anti-Genesis and I keep wondering if there will be another cast member to be announced with that set... Genuinely curious why - it's a large enough cast!
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mbt66
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Post by mbt66 on Aug 11, 2019 18:40:23 GMT
Roll on Anti-Genesis and I keep wondering if there will be another cast member to be announced with that set... Genuinely curious why - it's a large enough cast! A Dalek story with Genesis in the title... I can not help but expect someone will be playing.... Davros.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 20:25:21 GMT
Genuinely curious why - it's a large enough cast! I can not help but expect someone will be playing.... Davros. You're not the only one!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 21:49:46 GMT
Ah, no Davros waiting to be announced, sorry...
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Aug 12, 2019 9:38:16 GMT
Ah, no Davros waiting to be announced, sorry... What about his cunningly disguised nom-de-Guerre “Dave Ross from Cairo”?
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Aug 12, 2019 9:39:41 GMT
This set appealed to me more than the previous one. However I was disappointed in the ending with regard to the Doctor’s memory. I had hoped they would have gone with the Superman’s glasses explanation for the 10th Doctor not recognising the Master as that would have opened up so many opportunities for the Jacobi Master to meet the other Doctors. As it is will we get more memory wipes in Ravenous 3 or will they keep the Eighth Doctor well away from the War Master? This is just a slight niggle with an otherwise very enjoyable and fun set. Roll on Anti-Genesis and I keep wondering if there will be another cast member to be announced with that set... My personal theory is that the Doctor sees through the Master’s disguise every single time but plays along because it’s all part of their game.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Aug 12, 2019 19:22:34 GMT
Ah, no Davros waiting to be announced, sorry... Break it too me gently, why don’t you! I must say I am surprised. I thought the opportunity of having the Master and Davros together during the Time War scheming against one another would have been irresistible. Plus it would have provided a suitably epic finale to the series. That is not to say it won’t be epic, it is just the Master vs Davros would have been one hell of a hook. I was really looking forward to seeing the cover featuring both of them. Again I assumed that was the reason the cover hadn’t been released as yet. Oh well perhaps it will happen during the next collection of War Master boxsets!!
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Post by tuigirl on Aug 12, 2019 19:25:11 GMT
Ah, no Davros waiting to be announced, sorry... Break it too me gently, why don’t you! I must say I am surprised. I thought the opportunity of having the Master and Davros together during the Time War scheming against one another would have been irresistible. Plus it would have provided a suitably epic finale to the series. That is not to say it won’t be epic, it is just the Master vs Davros would have been one hell of a hook. I was really looking forward to seeing the cover featuring both of them. Again I assumed that was the reason the cover hadn’t been released as yet. Oh well perhaps it will happen during the next collection of War Master boxsets!! Well, I do hope we get a fitting finale to which all the Time War releases lead up to- and maybe Davros will be one of the secret weapons deployed. Or maybe he meets up with Romana or the 8th Doctor beforehand.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Aug 12, 2019 20:47:16 GMT
This set appealed to me more than the previous one. However I was disappointed in the ending with regard to the Doctor’s memory. I had hoped they would have gone with the Superman’s glasses explanation for the 10th Doctor not recognising the Master as that would have opened up so many opportunities for the Jacobi Master to meet the other Doctors. As it is will we get more memory wipes in Ravenous 3 or will they keep the Eighth Doctor well away from the War Master? This is just a slight niggle with an otherwise very enjoyable and fun set. Roll on Anti-Genesis and I keep wondering if there will be another cast member to be announced with that set... My personal theory is that the Doctor sees through the Master’s disguise every single time but plays along because it’s all part of their game. And he saw straight away that Yana was the Master, but the Master chameleon arched. It’s why he asked to see the watch, Yana’s vague reaction told him he was still arched correctly and he wasn’t the Master anymore, he remembered being John Smith and decided to be kind to Yana (and the universe) by keeping the Master locked away. It was Yana’s comments about drums and The Face Of Boe’s comments that the Doctor usn’t alone, therefore he knew that the Master was free eventually caused him to freak out in the knowledge that the Master had direct access to his TARDIS.
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