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Post by whiskeybrewer on Jan 2, 2019 12:19:07 GMT
Now that weve had the special, which to me felt more like a Season finale than Battle, its a season that got better as it went on. Its just a shame we now have to wait a Year before Season 12.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 2, 2019 13:22:43 GMT
Settled on my ranking after Resolution:
1. Demons of the Punjab 2. Resolution 3. It Takes You Away 4. Rosa 5. Kerblam! 6. The Woman Who Fell To Earth 7. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos 8. The Witchfinders 9. Arachnids in the UK 10. The Ghost Monument 11. The Tsuangra Conundrum
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Post by shallacatop on Jan 2, 2019 15:13:46 GMT
Okay, so I've had a think about the running order of the series and I think that has been my real "issue" with Series 11, if anything. The series has been great, but it feels like a series of two halves. We have The Woman Who Fell to Earth - Demons of the Punjab. Each story feels pretty much consecutive in regards to story, but each story also feels quite similar. They're low stakes, small cast and sets and use that to their advantage by making them very character driven, especially the TARDIS team themselves. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos could fit into this too, especially given the lack of an arc this series, which would make it more appropriate broadcasting it halfway through the series, or earlier. Then we have Kerblam!, The Witchfinders & it Takes You Away. They stand out amongst the other seven stories. Not in a bad way; they're three brilliant stories. Perhaps my favourite three of the series. As a result, I have two different running orders for two different ways of handling the series: Running Order #11. The Woman Who Fell to Earth 2. The Ghost Monument 3. The Tsuranga Conundrum * 4. The Witchfinders ** 5. Arachnids in the UK 6. Rosa *** 7. Kerblam! 8. Demons of the Punjab **** 9. It Takes You Away 10. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos ***** * I think The Tsuranga Conundrum works better before the Doctor successfully manages to get everyone back to Sheffield. The Doctor expresses grave alarm at losing the TARDIS again, which works better coming immediately after The Ghost Monument. As does her looking for parts in which to repair the TARDIS / get a better grasp of flying her again. The episode would also reveal that Cicero was General in the war against the Stenza. ** The Witchfinders has a couple of lines of dialogue which make it better suited to come earlier in the series. One is the Doctor's comment about not interfering with the past, which works better if it's their first time. The other is Graham mentioning they're getting closer to Sheffield, which works with the Doctor's ongoing attempt at getting them home. The episode would reveal that the Morax planet was destroyed by the Stenza. *** An ever so slight edit where you'd cut down the opening bit in which the Doctor's attempting to get the team back to Sheffield. **** The Thijarian planet was destroyed by the Stenza. ***** More mentions of the Stenza have been seeded throughout the series, making it feel more connected and more like a finale. Basically, Running Order #1 is something that could be done with only a couple of tweaks that provide the series with more of an arc and more of a consistency with regards to the broadcast order of stories. Running Order #21. The Woman Who Fell to Earth 2. The Ghost Monument 3. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos * 4. The Witchfinders ** 5. The Tsuranga Conundrum *** 6. Arachnids in the UK ****7. Demons of the Punjab ***** 8. Rosa 9. Kerblam! 10. It Takes You Away * Ranskoor Av Kolos would be revealed to be Desolation prior to what we see in The Ghost Monument. The TARDIS is still repairing, so can only travel backwards and forwards in time, but cannot change destination; which we see in The Ghost Monument. The fading TARDIS draws the Ux to the planet, viewing it as a sacred artifact of their religion. They see Tim Shaw arriving on the planet and believe he's their God and he has sent the TARDIS, which they drain power from in order to move Desolation out of orbit (as we see in The Ghost Monument) and create the super weapon Tim Shaw uses. ** The Doctor attempts to get them to Sheffield, but hasn't quite got to grips with the TARDIS, not to mention the ongoing repairs from the Doctor's regeneration and Tim Shaw's abuse of it. *** Similar to the original running order, where it makes more sense pre-Sheffield. **** I think this would have a small tweak where we see Yaz pick up her Grandma's watch. ***** I think get rid of the present day scenes between Yaz and her Grandma. Yaz mentions she was given the watch and it's a lucky charm for her, appropriate given her new lifestyle! Running Order #2 is perhaps a little more heavy handed with regards to changing the structure of the series, with emphasis on miniseries of sorts. The first three give us the Tim Shaw / Stenza story. The following three follow the Doctor's attempts to get the team back to Sheffield. The six combined show us the team develop further, which is why I have delayed Arachnids by a couple of episodes. The final four are all great examples of the new Team TARDIS, I think. They're rich, varied and standalone stories. It Takes You Away is perhaps a little offbeat for a finale, but the point is that it isn't a "proper" finale episode. it just ties up the Graham and Ryan dynamic through the series and the former gets a little bit of closure after seeing Grace. Two very different ideas; I'd be interested to hear what you think! Sorry to quote my own post again, I’m not normally egotistical! Now Resolution has aired, I’ve had a think about the series and this really does feel more like a finale, or rather a bookend to the beginning of the series with The Woman Who Fell to Earth. We have the lack of title sequences, the Sheffield setting and the handmade sonic screwdriver and Dalek. We get a closure of sorts with Ryan’s arc, with regards to his relationship with his dad and him saving the day at the end of Resolution, despite his dyspraxia, which we see at the very beginning of The Woman Who Fell to Earth. As soon as the BluRay is out, I’ll be watching Running Order #2, with Resolution at the end. I think my final thoughts will be even better this time around.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2019 15:28:35 GMT
Jodie and Chris both say Resolution is the de-facto finale of the series in the embargoed interviews from the BFI screening (I saw the quotes on Digital Spy, they're no doubt elsewhere) but I'm more interested in....if this is the de-facto finale - can we have it on the Series 11 boxset instead of charging 18 quid for it on it's own please Auntie Beeb?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 3:44:47 GMT
Okay, so I've had a think about the running order of the series and I think that has been my real "issue" with Series 11, if anything. The series has been great, but it feels like a series of two halves. We have The Woman Who Fell to Earth - Demons of the Punjab. Each story feels pretty much consecutive in regards to story, but each story also feels quite similar. They're low stakes, small cast and sets and use that to their advantage by making them very character driven, especially the TARDIS team themselves. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos could fit into this too, especially given the lack of an arc this series, which would make it more appropriate broadcasting it halfway through the series, or earlier. Then we have Kerblam!, The Witchfinders & it Takes You Away. They stand out amongst the other seven stories. Not in a bad way; they're three brilliant stories. Perhaps my favourite three of the series. As a result, I have two different running orders for two different ways of handling the series: Running Order #11. The Woman Who Fell to Earth 2. The Ghost Monument 3. The Tsuranga Conundrum * 4. The Witchfinders ** 5. Arachnids in the UK 6. Rosa *** 7. Kerblam! 8. Demons of the Punjab **** 9. It Takes You Away 10. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos ***** * I think The Tsuranga Conundrum works better before the Doctor successfully manages to get everyone back to Sheffield. The Doctor expresses grave alarm at losing the TARDIS again, which works better coming immediately after The Ghost Monument. As does her looking for parts in which to repair the TARDIS / get a better grasp of flying her again. The episode would also reveal that Cicero was General in the war against the Stenza. ** The Witchfinders has a couple of lines of dialogue which make it better suited to come earlier in the series. One is the Doctor's comment about not interfering with the past, which works better if it's their first time. The other is Graham mentioning they're getting closer to Sheffield, which works with the Doctor's ongoing attempt at getting them home. The episode would reveal that the Morax planet was destroyed by the Stenza. *** An ever so slight edit where you'd cut down the opening bit in which the Doctor's attempting to get the team back to Sheffield. **** The Thijarian planet was destroyed by the Stenza. ***** More mentions of the Stenza have been seeded throughout the series, making it feel more connected and more like a finale. Basically, Running Order #1 is something that could be done with only a couple of tweaks that provide the series with more of an arc and more of a consistency with regards to the broadcast order of stories. Running Order #21. The Woman Who Fell to Earth 2. The Ghost Monument 3. The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos * 4. The Witchfinders ** 5. The Tsuranga Conundrum *** 6. Arachnids in the UK ****7. Demons of the Punjab ***** 8. Rosa 9. Kerblam! 10. It Takes You Away * Ranskoor Av Kolos would be revealed to be Desolation prior to what we see in The Ghost Monument. The TARDIS is still repairing, so can only travel backwards and forwards in time, but cannot change destination; which we see in The Ghost Monument. The fading TARDIS draws the Ux to the planet, viewing it as a sacred artifact of their religion. They see Tim Shaw arriving on the planet and believe he's their God and he has sent the TARDIS, which they drain power from in order to move Desolation out of orbit (as we see in The Ghost Monument) and create the super weapon Tim Shaw uses. ** The Doctor attempts to get them to Sheffield, but hasn't quite got to grips with the TARDIS, not to mention the ongoing repairs from the Doctor's regeneration and Tim Shaw's abuse of it. *** Similar to the original running order, where it makes more sense pre-Sheffield. **** I think this would have a small tweak where we see Yaz pick up her Grandma's watch. ***** I think get rid of the present day scenes between Yaz and her Grandma. Yaz mentions she was given the watch and it's a lucky charm for her, appropriate given her new lifestyle! Running Order #2 is perhaps a little more heavy handed with regards to changing the structure of the series, with emphasis on miniseries of sorts. The first three give us the Tim Shaw / Stenza story. The following three follow the Doctor's attempts to get the team back to Sheffield. The six combined show us the team develop further, which is why I have delayed Arachnids by a couple of episodes. The final four are all great examples of the new Team TARDIS, I think. They're rich, varied and standalone stories. It Takes You Away is perhaps a little offbeat for a finale, but the point is that it isn't a "proper" finale episode. it just ties up the Graham and Ryan dynamic through the series and the former gets a little bit of closure after seeing Grace. Two very different ideas; I'd be interested to hear what you think! Sorry to quote my own post again, I’m not normally egotistical! Now Resolution has aired, I’ve had a think about the series and this really does feel more like a finale, or rather a bookend to the beginning of the series with The Woman Who Fell to Earth. We have the lack of title sequences, the Sheffield setting and the handmade sonic screwdriver and Dalek. We get a closure of sorts with Ryan’s arc, with regards to his relationship with his dad and him saving the day at the end of Resolution, despite his dyspraxia, which we see at the very beginning of The Woman Who Fell to Earth. As soon as the BluRay is out, I’ll be watching Running Order #2, with Resolution at the end. I think my final thoughts will be even better this time around. Oh, I love these for episodic shows; I can't resist fiddling about with the running order. Running Order #2 is rather interesting for swapping around Graham's arc -- revenge, then grief rather than vice versa -- that's very much ripe for a fanedit. Could even turn it into a film-length omnibus end-to-end by moving scenes around to feather the stories together. Yeah... That has some very strong possibilities. I scribbled something similar down myself just before Christmas (episodes intact, mind):
- The Woman Who Fell to Earth - The Ghost Monument - The Witchfinders (first indirect mention of Aaron) - The Tsuranga Conundrum (Yaz and Graham's conversation about fathers follows up Witchfinders) - Rosa - Arachnids in the UK - Kerblam! - It Takes You Away (still close enough to Arachids for it to be a raw wound torn open for Graham)
- The Battle of Ranskoor Av Kolos - Demons of the Punjab (the framing story of returning to Sheffield now feels like the Doctor's stopped in to double-check things) - Resolution (the alarm could've been set up off-screen in Demons)
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Post by shallacatop on Jan 3, 2019 6:09:04 GMT
That’s a really interesting order, Wolfie. I like it!
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Post by GroundedCompanion on Jan 3, 2019 23:40:19 GMT
Jodie and Chris both say Resolution is the de-facto finale of the series in the embargoed interviews from the BFI screening (I saw the quotes on Digital Spy, they're no doubt elsewhere) but I'm more interested in....if this is the de-facto finale - can we have it on the Series 11 boxset instead of charging 18 quid for it on it's own please Auntie Beeb?
It's been fairly standard practice with the holiday specials, I don't think we'll see any change of that, regardless of narrative, anytime soon.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jan 4, 2019 0:19:01 GMT
Jodie and Chris both say Resolution is the de-facto finale of the series in the embargoed interviews from the BFI screening (I saw the quotes on Digital Spy, they're no doubt elsewhere) but I'm more interested in....if this is the de-facto finale - can we have it on the Series 11 boxset instead of charging 18 quid for it on it's own please Auntie Beeb?
It's been fairly standard practice with the holiday specials, I don't think we'll see any change of that, regardless of narrative, anytime soon.
But all of them - until Twice Upon a Time - have appeared in a Series boxset - THAT is fairly standard practice. Maybe they'll include it in the S12 one...
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 3:16:37 GMT
Jodie and Chris both say Resolution is the de-facto finale of the series in the embargoed interviews from the BFI screening (I saw the quotes on Digital Spy, they're no doubt elsewhere) but I'm more interested in....if this is the de-facto finale - can we have it on the Series 11 boxset instead of charging 18 quid for it on it's own please Auntie Beeb?
It's been fairly standard practice with the holiday specials, I don't think we'll see any change of that, regardless of narrative, anytime soon.
I wasn't giving my opinion or preference - it's fact. Series 11 is out in 9 days, so we know what's on the set and the special isn't. Resolution is getting a standalone release next month instead.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 3:21:45 GMT
It's been fairly standard practice with the holiday specials, I don't think we'll see any change of that, regardless of narrative, anytime soon.
But all of them - until Twice Upon a Time - have appeared in a Series boxset - THAT is fairly standard practice. Maybe they'll include it in the S12 one... Yep, they can have it open S12 despite telling us it's the narrative closing chapter of S11. 14 months or so after they've already flogged thousands
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jan 4, 2019 3:25:08 GMT
But all of them - until Twice Upon a Time - have appeared in a Series boxset - THAT is fairly standard practice. Maybe they'll include it in the S12 one... Yep, they can have it open S12 despite telling us it's the narrative closing chapter of S11. 14 months or so after they've already flogged thousands Now, that IS fairly standard practice.
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bobod
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Post by bobod on Jan 4, 2019 3:27:08 GMT
It's been fairly standard practice with the holiday specials, I don't think we'll see any change of that, regardless of narrative, anytime soon.
I wasn't giving my opinion or preference - it's fact. Series 11 is out in 9 days, so we know what's on the set and the special isn't. Resolution is getting a standalone release next month instead. Presumably it's the fact it's out in nine days that prevented Resolution being on it. Not that they had to choose to release it when they did.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 3:35:59 GMT
I wasn't giving my opinion or preference - it's fact. Series 11 is out in 9 days, so we know what's on the set and the special isn't. Resolution is getting a standalone release next month instead. Presumably it's the fact it's out in nine days that prevented Resolution being on it. Not that they had to choose to release it when they did. Luther's out within a few weeks of this run finishing, Attenborough's last was out the next week after his wrapped, Les Mis is scheduled to come out a week after it finishes....seems like they really could have had this on there. Even if there was some logistical reason, as you say, they don't need to have it out mid-January. If you're missing the lucrative Christmas market you may as well miss it by 6 weeks rather than 4. As it stands I think they're going to have some give this set a miss - partially to see if the special does (ludicrously) open S12's box and partially because they're charging the same for 10 eps that Series 9 did for 14, and this one has less extras than any series set has had in the revived era. An RTD era would often have a few hours a disc, this one says "Over An Hour Of Bonus Features" like that's a lot for DW.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 3:41:47 GMT
Yep, they can have it open S12 despite telling us it's the narrative closing chapter of S11. 14 months or so after they've already flogged thousands Now, that IS fairly standard practice. Which was fine in the days we could easily be sure the special would open the next set - and the standalone would have exclusive extras like Capaldi's live unveiling or the 2011 Proms. It's not a deal-breaker for me, I'm on for the S11 steelbook, but unlike other eras where the special is AWOL, Twice Upon A Time (they wanted S10 in the shops for CHristmas) and Time Of The Doctor (S7 was long out and opening S8 with Matt's last ep wouldn't be reasonable), there doesn't seem to be any real need for it to happen here.
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Post by newt5996 on Jan 4, 2019 4:11:34 GMT
6/10 for me. Demons, Kerblam, and It Takes You Away were amazing stories and save the series from being a five but everything else rarely made it to a 7/10, yet never drifted below the meh 5/10 score which is a plus.
I think Chibnall played it a bit too safe in the types of stories doing mostly standard who fare.
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Post by tuigirl on Jan 4, 2019 9:52:10 GMT
6/10 for me. Demons, Kerblam, and It Takes You Away were amazing stories and save the series from being a five but everything else rarely made it to a 7/10, yet never drifted below the meh 5/10 score which is a plus. I think Chibnall played it a bit too safe in the types of stories doing mostly standard who fare. I completely agree with you there.
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Post by barnabaslives on Jan 4, 2019 21:22:58 GMT
I think seeing the holiday special has given me more solid ground to see what I think of this season in contrast to past New Series seasons. In the final accounting, I think that if plot holes were tooth cavities (this odd choice of analogy must have something to do with Tzim-Sha the Tooth Fairy?) Moffat would insist on filling them with the only finest (and the most timey-wimey) 24 karat material, which maybe does manage to draw more attention to them, while Chibnall seems to prefers using a more natural and less obtrusive composite material of some sort.
I can't really fault either approach if I think of it that way, so this has further increased my appreciation of Moffat, although I do think I prefer Chibnall's approach - I think this is probably the first time since the Seventh Doctor era that I've felt this focused on each episode as a story, as opposed to as a series of unusual events taking place. That's really a wonderful development if Season 11 is making me like the entire New Series more, rather than making me like it less in comparison.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Jan 5, 2019 14:17:43 GMT
More changes, more same.
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Post by pazzer on Jan 5, 2019 21:44:24 GMT
Not perfect by any means but so much potential going forward. Jodie is amazing and I hope she stays for a long time. Really enjoyed the Tardis crew though due to the Graham and Ryan arc Yaz feels underdeveloped. Historicals were amazing and hope they continue with them.
Was the best series of Who in sometime and was excited for each new episode.
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aztec
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Post by aztec on Jan 5, 2019 21:44:38 GMT
Well I haven't watched any episodes of Series 11 yet, and judging from the reaction of four of my close friends who are whovians, I don't have any real desire to (two bailed on the series by the midpoint mark, one spoke warmly of Jodie Whitaker's perforamce which was surprised considering he'd been rather opposed to a female Doctor though was indifferent to most of the stories, and the last who has been a hardcore fan since the 1970's tore the series to shreds) glad to see that so many of the people here enjoyed it, especially pleased that timelord007 gave Jodie the benefit of the doubt (which is somewhat ironic considering some of my friends in fvaour of a female Doctor feel she is miscast...), now that may sound a little hypocritical of me, but I've always largely been a fan of certain era's of who rather than the series overall, not every era or doctor will please everyone, I'm personally quite content to stick with certain Big Finish ranges, Classic Who and the Capaldi years for my Who fix, but I very much hope the Chibnall era continues to be enjoyable for those of you already invested in it.
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