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Post by omega on Feb 12, 2019 8:01:01 GMT
DOCTOR WHO - MAIN RANGE » 248. BLACK THURSDAY / POWER GAMEReleased February 2019Black Thursday by Jamie Anderson1902. Deep beneath the Welsh village of Abertysswg, men have worked the black seam for generations. Until the day of the disaster. The day that a blue box from the future materialised inside the mine.... and things would never be the same again. Power Game by Eddie RobsonWelcome to the Incredible Power Game, in which three brave Earthlings enter the Void Pit in search of strange gems to help return the alien Hostess to her home dimension. Today's contestants include Graham, Sadia... and Tegan, an air stewardess from Brisbane! Written By: Jamie Anderson and Eddie Robson Directed By: Ken Bentley CASTPeter Davison (The Doctor), Janet Fielding (Tegan Jovanka), Mark Strickson (Turlough), Jon Culshaw (Kamelion), Lizzie Roper (Eira Hughes), Tim Treloar (John Hughes), Matthew Aubrey (Gwyn Hughes), Derek Hutchinson (Geoff Evans), Bettrys Jones (Judith Matson), Christopher Naylor (James Hudd), Harriet Kershaw (The Hostess), Natalie Winter (Una), Richard Popple (Richard), Dougie McMeekin (Stuart), Alex Tregear (Sadia). Other parts played by members of the cast.
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Post by omega on Feb 12, 2019 10:35:22 GMT
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Post by IndieMacUser on Feb 12, 2019 11:02:30 GMT
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Feb 12, 2019 12:17:34 GMT
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Post by Digi on Feb 12, 2019 13:25:08 GMT
I really enjoyed both of these stories, but especially Black Thursday.
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Post by Bazoolium on Feb 13, 2019 20:01:33 GMT
They were both excellent, very well written. I couldn't say which was my favourite as they are both quite different.
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 13, 2019 21:53:36 GMT
Black Thursday is so bleak and dark. It’s really effective.
It’s a shame, then, that we get such a bloated resolution in the second part. The ending is that happy and under developed it undercuts the bleak atmosphere and the epilogue seems unnecessary.
I think it would’ve been better for Kamelion to have taken on the form of Gwyn, with the mother unaware he’d died. That would’ve been a better way of dealing with her grief, rather than Kamelion promising revenge. The Doctor would’ve had to recover Kamelion and the whole thing would’ve come to a head. It would’ve suited the atmosphere of the story much better than the ending we got and it would’ve prevented yet another story where Kamelion gets possessed by a very strong personality, though I suppose he feels more developed come the end of this story.
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Post by shallacatop on Feb 14, 2019 16:53:33 GMT
I thought Power Game was fine. It’s a riff of Vengeance on Varos and Bad Wolf. The guest cast are really good, but where the production excels is its sound design. It makes a visual driven story work on audio very well indeed.
It’s yet another story in which Kamelion gets taken over by a strong personality. I’m guessing that the purpose of the arc is to show us why Kamelion doesn’t venture out with the TARDIS team. The other alternative would be for him to finally gain control in The Kamelion Empire and pave the way for further adventures. I don’t think either make for a satisfying set of stories overall, though, as they’re not using the character for anything other than a plot device.
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 15, 2019 0:11:58 GMT
I'm not sure Black Thursday really needed to go so far as it did to make the point about Kameleon being susceptible to influence (or Power Game either for that matter) but it's very impressive that both of these stories were easily good enough to make up for that rather sizable complaint. My final impression of both is that this is some very good Doctor Who.
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Post by number13 on Feb 15, 2019 1:32:32 GMT
Black Thursday
This started so well and gripped me with the depictions of the miners' home and working lives and the sudden, tragic accident - one among so many in the industry around that time. (Several of my great-grandparents and many of their relatives were of mining families from the mid 19thC at least (some in Wales), and one of my great-grandfathers died in a mining accident around this period, so this story was of special interest.) And the Doctor and friends helping out, with Kamelion initially developing and learning by helping people in need was well done.
Unfortunately Kamelion became a menace again and enacted a melodrama about revenge with I thought the over-familiar characters of the callous toff and his good, caring daughter who for me belonged in a 'mill town' melodrama from about 1850. So when Kamelion started out to be the robotic 'angel of death' I simply didn't care much what happened to them. (I do wish Matson had been written as a more realistic, three dimensional character, it seemed such a waste.)
And then we discovered that Judith was (of course) the result of the evil toff having his wicked way among the "village maidens" like so many melodrama villains before him, but the stalwart yeoman hero settled the score with his sturdy fist; Virtue triumphant, Villainy repaid! (In the real 1902, Mr. Evans' "gallant" punch would of course have got him fired, arrested and probably jailed.)
So Eira, who had lost everyone she loved in the tragic, powerful opening section (and her income and soon her home too - their mining cottage probably went with the job), magically claims her (rich) long-lost daughter and finds a hero to 'protect her' in an ending which those Victorian melodrama audiences would surely have lapped up, but which I thought was far too neat and simplistic. Real life isn't so kind and in 1902, still less so.
Then suddenly, there was the unexpected and beautifully done little epilogue at the miners' memorial in 'the present day' of 1984. A moving end to a story which started so promisingly, but for me the melodramatic middle section and the 'happy ending' let it down despite the work of a great cast and the usual high quality sound design.
(I really wish the story had continued along the lines that shallacatop suggests, as a story of grief and Kamelion learning from a well-intentioned mistake of helping Eira by 'replacing' her son Gwyn. (Tegan and the Doctor both know what it is to grieve for family and friends and could have helped him understand in the end.) And for the 'action' side, there were still 60 men trapped underground - their realistic rescue could have made a gripping storyline to test Turlough's developing courage and willingness to help others (the Frontios spirit, as we're in that season.))
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Post by slithe on Feb 16, 2019 11:08:09 GMT
Black Thursday
As someone who is keen on history/historical fiction (just finished re-listening to The Peterloo Massacre) I opted for this story first. To be honest, I thought it wasn't too bad - was definitely a step up from the last monthly release and did develop Kamelion on a bit more (which was always the intention of these stories I think).
The first episode was a generally good set up - the depiction of a Welsh mining village and the hardships of mining life come across well here. Doctor Who, once again, can make interesting social commentaries without needing to be too 'in your face about it'. Again, Davison not liking historical stories is rather ironic as his Doctor is well suited for this genre and is generally well scripted here. The pace of the first episode, leading to the inevitable mining accident, is just about right and creates a dark tone - Gywn not wanting to go down the mines and his father thinking he is a bit 'soft' segue quite well into the plot and make the actual cave-in rather more emotional than it possibly needs to be. Again, the point that many of the working classes having to take what was available and not being able to choose their destinies is well served.
I think the second episode is rather weaker and doesn't really fit with the gritty narrative that I would have liked. As already pointed out, the characters do become rather 3D Cliches - the uncaring toff, the 'good hearted working class man', the vengeful miner, the distrusting villager, etc. However, I suppose when the intention of the story is to develop Kamelion (rather than promote realistic drama) and allow him to understand human emotion - these things can be sidelined somewhat. Although unrealistic, the story does lift at the end and isn't entirely bleak - yes, it was highly likely that the miner who punched the mine owner would have lost his job (or been thrown into jail) and that Eira would either have ended up in penury, shunned by the village and/or had to live with another miner and carry on the cycle of her existence - but perhaps a more happier ending isn't always a bad thing?
I liked the mini-epilogue - the return to 1984 and the monument is a nice touch. Again, the subtle dig at the fact that the sacrifices of the miners being forgotten (and industrial policy at that time), is quite welcome.
All in all, not a bad release. Two episodes is just right for this. The story wraps itself up well and has good plotting. The first episode and the last section of the second are definitely strong. Whether the story needed to be very dark/bleak is down to personal taste I think. I would have preferred a more realistic approach as others have said, but I can see why the approach was taken here - after all Kamelion does appear to be developing more.
Will be interesting to see what happens with the next story. Are BF experimenting with this format again I wonder?
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Post by omega on Feb 16, 2019 11:19:15 GMT
If the purpose of this set of stories is to show why Kamelion is such a liability, it’s coming off a lot like the Missing Adventures novel The Crystal Bucephalus. He’s had stories where he doesn’t do a Nyssa and get possessed, so it is possible.
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Post by slithe on Feb 16, 2019 11:42:06 GMT
If the purpose of this set of stories is to show why Kamelion is such a liability, it’s coming off a lot like the Missing Adventures novel The Crystal Bucephalus. He’s had stories where he doesn’t do a Nyssa and get possessed, so it is possible. I agree. It will be interesting to see what they do with Kamelion. He is such a 'difficult' companion for BF in many ways - there are few TV adventures (if any) with him in it, so there's little material to work with. In addition, the name of the character implies shape-shifting abilities, which is rather difficult to pull off in the audio stories. Hence, they've got to go with his untrustworthiness and ability to be dominated/manipulated (that's the essence of his character from The King's Demons). I wonder if there's a second batch of adventures already recorded for next year and this trilogy is being used to lay the groundwork for greater development. Certainly, the stories do need to move away from 'here's Kamelion being influenced again - first by the Master, then by Tegan in Devil in the Mist and then by Eira in Black Thursday. Not heard Power Game yet, so can't comment, but it might be a theme. Will the Doctor 'break' this habit or weakness is one to be seen - the final story in the trilogy might have the answers to this. How much this develops will depend on the availability of Mark Strickson I suppose - this set of stories is his first return to the MR since 2015. In many ways this trilogy is interesting due to its *potential* and the sheer unknown direction it seems to be going in. As stories themselves, the releases aren't amazing and, sadly, I think are slightly down on what we've seen with Davison in the past - Equilibrium onwards has been a fantastic run, with some stories being very, very good.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 17, 2019 2:08:10 GMT
It’s yet another story in which Kamelion gets taken over by a strong personality. I’m guessing that the purpose of the arc is to show us why Kamelion doesn’t venture out with the TARDIS team. The other alternative would be for him to finally gain control in The Kamelion Empire and pave the way for further adventures. I don’t think either make for a satisfying set of stories overall, though, as they’re not using the character for anything other than a plot device. I agree. I've been thinking the same thing.
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 17, 2019 7:45:23 GMT
Two excellent stories but Kamelion is such a flipping liability, he needs sending to a intergalactic disposal tip straight away scapped for spare parts.
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Post by omega on Feb 17, 2019 8:35:25 GMT
If the purpose of this set of stories is to show why Kamelion is such a liability, it’s coming off a lot like the Missing Adventures novel The Crystal Bucephalus. He’s had stories where he doesn’t do a Nyssa and get possessed, so it is possible. I agree. It will be interesting to see what they do with Kamelion. He is such a 'difficult' companion for BF in many ways - there are few TV adventures (if any) with him in it, so there's little material to work with. In addition, the name of the character implies shape-shifting abilities, which is rather difficult to pull off in the audio stories. Hence, they've got to go with his untrustworthiness and ability to be dominated/manipulated (that's the essence of his character from The King's Demons). I wonder if there's a second batch of adventures already recorded for next year and this trilogy is being used to lay the groundwork for greater development. Certainly, the stories do need to move away from 'here's Kamelion being influenced again - first by the Master, then by Tegan in Devil in the Mist and then by Eira in Black Thursday. Not heard Power Game yet, so can't comment, but it might be a theme. Will the Doctor 'break' this habit or weakness is one to be seen - the final story in the trilogy might have the answers to this. How much this develops will depend on the availability of Mark Strickson I suppose - this set of stories is his first return to the MR since 2015. In many ways this trilogy is interesting due to its *potential* and the sheer unknown direction it seems to be going in. As stories themselves, the releases aren't amazing and, sadly, I think are slightly down on what we've seen with Davison in the past - Equilibrium onwards has been a fantastic run, with some stories being very, very good. I'd like to see an episode or two where the Doctor, Tegan, Turlough and Kamelion are stuck onboard the TARDIS and Kamelion is turning into people from their past. It'd be a psychological experience, like Tegan seeing her Auntie Vanessa, and also show how these characters see the people they used to know (title is Somebody That I Used to Know). It is rather frustrating because the writers seem to be using Kamelion getting mind controlled as a crutch for the plot, rather than to explore the character. A good twist for Power Game would have been Kamelion's mind being the one part of him not being taken over, or weaponising his weak mental defenses and reflecting the intensity of the control over him back at the one controlling him.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 10:18:32 GMT
I agree. It will be interesting to see what they do with Kamelion. He is such a 'difficult' companion for BF in many ways - there are few TV adventures (if any) with him in it, so there's little material to work with. In addition, the name of the character implies shape-shifting abilities, which is rather difficult to pull off in the audio stories. Hence, they've got to go with his untrustworthiness and ability to be dominated/manipulated (that's the essence of his character from The King's Demons). I wonder if there's a second batch of adventures already recorded for next year and this trilogy is being used to lay the groundwork for greater development. Certainly, the stories do need to move away from 'here's Kamelion being influenced again - first by the Master, then by Tegan in Devil in the Mist and then by Eira in Black Thursday. Not heard Power Game yet, so can't comment, but it might be a theme. Will the Doctor 'break' this habit or weakness is one to be seen - the final story in the trilogy might have the answers to this. How much this develops will depend on the availability of Mark Strickson I suppose - this set of stories is his first return to the MR since 2015. In many ways this trilogy is interesting due to its *potential* and the sheer unknown direction it seems to be going in. As stories themselves, the releases aren't amazing and, sadly, I think are slightly down on what we've seen with Davison in the past - Equilibrium onwards has been a fantastic run, with some stories being very, very good. I'd like to see an episode or two where the Doctor, Tegan, Turlough and Kamelion are stuck onboard the TARDIS and Kamelion is turning into people from their past. It'd be a psychological experience, like Tegan seeing her Auntie Vanessa, and also show how these characters see the people they used to know (title is Somebody That I Used to Know). It is rather frustrating because the writers seem to be using Kamelion getting mind controlled as a crutch for the plot, rather than to explore the character. A good twist for Power Game would have been Kamelion's mind being the one part of him not being taken over, or weaponising his weak mental defenses and reflecting the intensity of the control over him back at the one controlling him. How about a story to do with the controller's self-image? Maybe their own mental representation of themselves doesn't fit with the reality, it's unkinder and deliberately more two-dimensional. You could easily do something there about someone confronting their own personal demons through this Galatean mirror. The character vs. the cipher in a self-made echo chamber. That could be rather interesting...
Shapeshifters are always difficult to write for, purely from the perspective of how much their transformation affects the personality beneath it. The deleted scene from The Awakening has Kamelion describe Turlough's voice as "interesting", so he's got opinions, as vague as they may seem. Kamelion is a bit slipperier than someone like Frobisher, for instance, because it's unclear what exactly lies beneath his mask. Who is the silver android really and what does he want? I've a strong suspicion that the upcoming Kamelion Empire could be what people are looking for. His "reintroduction story," for want of a better term. Something that gives his characterisation a status quo to bounce out from:
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Post by omega on Feb 17, 2019 10:52:33 GMT
Also what affects Kamelion’s personality is that he is servant class. Frobisher is a shapeshifter, but he’s got a complete personality. Meanwhile Kamelion is literally built to serve, and lacks any initiative beyond this programming. He’s not an organic being so he has no base personality to work off of, no aspirations or ambitions to guide where he goes. One solution to this is that he copies rather than just reads a mind print, and this becomes he personality. Either he can’t stop absorbing personalities or his new one is too troublesome, causing the Doctor to reset him to factory settings, which is how he gets to where we see him in Planet of Fire. In Black Thursday Kamelion barely got to grips with raw grief, imagine how much many personalities in his processors would affect him.
In the novel Imperial Moon Turlough is at a mental loose end and decides to use Kamelion as a way to reflect on himself, even asking the android to shift into his own form. When Kamelion is asked if he is happy, he responds: ’I am not designed to be “happy”, but I experience what you might call contentment knowing I am fuilfilling the purpose for which ai was created.’
Despite his ability to read strong minds and act a a sort of psychic mirror, Kamelion feels a disconnect from emotions even though he is built to mimic them. It’s like his creators have left his Learn function switched off, much like SkyNet with their Terminator units. While it makes you wonder just how much sentience Kamelion has, knowing how evolving AI stories in science fiction have worked that’s a wise precaution. What would Kamelion do given the chance to slip his limitations and practice actual ambition, since he can hold mental links with people?
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Post by number13 on Feb 18, 2019 1:13:33 GMT
Power Game
Back in the early 80s, 'adventure games' were all the rage - on TV and on (what we thought of as) computers - up to date ones with colour graphics (graphics using 4 colours at once!) and 32K of RAM. 32,000 whole bytes. A PC keyboard has more than that now! But the games were fun and so were the TV shows and that of course includes 'The Five Doctors', a perfect example of the 'adventure game' genre turned into drama (and one of my all-time favourites) which was perfectly of its time.
And for me, Eddie Robson's story is also perfectly of its time and I loved it for that. If you don't remember the (other) time when the Doctor was young and blond, this might come across as 'just' a good, entertaining 'Doctor Who' adventure, but for someone like me who was around in those ancient days then this is a beautifully depicted slice of pure nostalgia plus alien skulduggery. I had friends just like Una and Richard and Stuart - in fact I might have been one of those guys with their prize possession - a state-of-the-art VCR - which is ancient English for Video Cassette Recorder. Respect, guys, I know how much you had to save to buy that box! (Because I did the same, just in time that I could record 'The Five Doctors' in November 1983.) They cost hundreds in 1983/4 terms, maybe £1500 today's equivalent, so these are some serious tech-heads and just the right sort of people to pick up on alien weirdness infiltrating the wealth (four) of channels on British TV.
I liked the vibe of 'The Adventure Game' meets 'Knightmare' of the alien 'game' very much. The latter (ITV) was more gothic and 'dungeons and dragons'-y and I think aimed at younger viewers, the former (BBC) was the show I watched, high-tech styled and set on Arg with alien 'Argonds' (dragons) pretending to be humans to welcome their guests. Win, and you went home. Lose and... well, there's an awful lot of space out there if you're hitch-hiking... 'The Adventure Game' was the one contemporary with the Fifth Doctor in the early 80s and like his TARDIS, sometimes used in-game graphics done on a BBC Micro (presumably a Model B. You were not taken seriously if you only had a Model A. ) So I loved the idea that the Hostess showed a real and dangerous world as BBC Micro graphics to make her 'players' feel at home.
This alien adventure played out in the usual 'Doctor Who' style but I didn't mind that at all, with a double-dose of nostalgia on offer it was very enjoyable. This could have been a 'lost' Fifth Doctor story of the era imo and it depicts the real-world era as sharply as cyan and purple line graphics on a black background. (Historical reference.)
My only criticism is that for the third story running, Kamelion becomes the unwilling agent of trouble and has to be rescued / defeated. I suppose this is almost inevitable, doing the will of others is what Kamelion was created for. But I would have hoped for one story where the Doctor or his companions provide the will (with Kamelion's active participation) to turn it into an agent of good - a silver hero to go perhaps where no organic life-form could do. Maybe in the final story of the set we'll get the good Kamelion?
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ljwilson
Chancellery Guard
It's tangerine....not orange
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Post by ljwilson on Feb 18, 2019 9:27:55 GMT
Power Game
Back in the early 80s, 'adventure games' were all the rage - on TV and on (what we thought of as) computers - up to date ones with colour graphics (graphics using 4 colours at once!) and 32K of RAM. 32,000 whole bytes. A PC keyboard has more than that now! But the games were fun and so were the TV shows and that of course includes 'The Five Doctors', a perfect example of the 'adventure game' genre turned into drama (and one of my all-time favourites) which was perfectly of its time.
And for me, Eddie Robson's story is also perfectly of its time and I loved it for that. If you don't remember the (other) time when the Doctor was young and blond, this might come across as 'just' a good, entertaining 'Doctor Who' adventure, but for someone like me who was around in those ancient days then this is a beautifully depicted slice of pure nostalgia plus alien skulduggery. I had friends just like Una and Richard and Stuart - in fact I might have been one of those guys with their prize possession - a state-of-the-art VCR - which is ancient English for Video Cassette Recorder. Respect, guys, I know how much you had to save to buy that box! (Because I did the same, just in time that I could record 'The Five Doctors' in November 1983.) They cost hundreds in 1983/4 terms, maybe £1500 today's equivalent, so these are some serious tech-heads and just the right sort of people to pick up on alien weirdness infiltrating the wealth (four) of channels on British TV.
I liked the vibe of 'The Adventure Game' meets 'Knightmare' of the alien 'game' very much. The latter (ITV) was more gothic and 'dungeons and dragons'-y and I think aimed at younger viewers, the former (BBC) was the show I watched, high-tech styled and set on Arg with alien 'Argonds' (dragons) pretending to be humans to welcome their guests. Win, and you went home. Lose and... well, there's an awful lot of space out there if you're hitch-hiking... 'The Adventure Game' was the one contemporary with the Fifth Doctor in the early 80s and like his TARDIS, sometimes used in-game graphics done on a BBC Micro (presumably a Model B. You were not taken seriously if you only had a Model A. ) So I loved the idea that the Hostess showed a real and dangerous world as BBC Micro graphics to make her 'players' feel at home.
This alien adventure played out in the usual 'Doctor Who' style but I didn't mind that at all, with a double-dose of nostalgia on offer it was very enjoyable. This could have been a 'lost' Fifth Doctor story of the era imo and it depicts the real-world era as sharply as cyan and purple line graphics on a black background. (Historical reference.)
My only criticism is that for the third story running, Kamelion becomes the unwilling agent of trouble and has to be rescued / defeated. I suppose this is almost inevitable, doing the will of others is what Kamelion was created for. But I would have hoped for one story where the Doctor or his companions provide the will (with Kamelion's active participation) to turn it into an agent of good - a silver hero to go perhaps where no organic life-form could do. Maybe in the final story of the set we'll get the good Kamelion?
And I seem to remember Uncle Aspidistra!
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