|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 23, 2019 0:21:46 GMT
So, anyone remotely into anything Marvel or DC related has likely seen this crop up many times: when will the great shared universes finally fail and s.h comic book films go the way of Westerns (and, for a time, musicals)? Can they?
For my end, while the future and audiences are fickle, I still think there's gas in the tank. Every time Marvel looked settled into a groove or about to bunt, they threw a curveball (Guardians, Ant-Man, Ragnarok, Black Panther and based on early reports, Captain Marvel) and DC's decision to move from ultra-gritty to more nakedly oddball with Aquaman, Shazam and an 80s-set Wonder Woman could give them that second wind.
|
|
|
Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Feb 23, 2019 0:46:22 GMT
Been a fan of all things comicy for nearly 40 years... As long as they take their time to get everything right.. as long as the story is good, everything else will follow.
|
|
|
Post by fingersmash on Feb 23, 2019 1:13:28 GMT
Spider-Verse proved that it's nowhere near on its way out. If the genre survives Justice League, it can survive anything.
|
|
|
Post by masterdoctor on Feb 23, 2019 1:58:40 GMT
I think that the way they can effortlessly switch genres from movie to movie shows that the Superhero genre isn't dead or going to be soon.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 23, 2019 4:15:34 GMT
I think depending on how Avengers: Endgame plays out, the genre will either go gangbusters or go into hiatus for a while. If it patronises the audience, elicits too much of a “Last Jedi” reaction or goes too dark, than it’ll be in trouble.
The initial reaction to “Captain Marvel” is looking like a “Last Jedi” is on the horizon.
|
|
|
Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Feb 23, 2019 5:15:24 GMT
I put it down to the "Shift3 2019" online generation who look to be offended. To me it doesn't matter as much what the genre is, just as long as it's a sound solid story.
Think "Dark Knight Rises" , now that was quality.
:-)
|
|
shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,666
|
Post by shutupbanks on Feb 23, 2019 8:06:42 GMT
Spider-Verse proved that it's nowhere near on its way out. If the genre survives Justice League, it can survive anything. To be fair, the genre survived the 90s. There has been nothing in the last 19 years that has rivalled Spawn or either of Joel Schumacher's Batman films for sheer awfulness. Even the lows of modern Marvel/ DC have largely been successful artistically if not critically or commercially.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Feb 23, 2019 9:02:56 GMT
To be honest, I have felt fatigue for the superhero movie genre for a while now. Which is weird, because in my youth, I could not get enough of it. But now, I just have taken a break from it and have not even seen the latest Avengers. I think the last Marvel movies I saw were Spiderman Homecoming (which I loved) and Ragnarok (where Taika Waititi made me laugh out loud as the rock creature). That being said, seeing all the overwhelming praise, I am really curious about the Spider-Verse and will certainly get it as soon as it comes out on iTunes.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 10:21:21 GMT
They seem to be still making huge profit at the box office so unless there’s a huge flop then I can’t see them stopping soon. They do, like most blockbusters, appear to be bullet proof. But personally I am getting bored of Marvel & DC comic book films & really do not buy into the belief that they are so varied, they all follow a familiar template & sometimes try to push at the edges but in a very safe way & within a confined formula. I remember the old Superman film with the tagline, “You’ll believe a man can fly” & it was amazing. But now, with special FX able to do pretty much anything, for me its all about doing something different & surprising with the genre or adapting lesser known characters & stories. I am not rushing to the cinema to see these films anymore.
I am enjoying Doom Patrol which, although from one of the big two, is a weird & different take on the well-known superhero team story. & also the proposed Judge Dredd tv show & Rogue Trooper movie will hopefully be good. & Netflix have some upcoming shows from the mind of Mark Millar (creator of Kingsmen, Wanted, Kick-Ass) which look interesting. But overall, superhero movies now are very boring. Not terrible just dull, predictable & obvious.
One final thing, with all these superhero films that have mass appeal (part of the reason they don’t veer too far from a safe formula) what has happened to films made specifically for young audiences? We either have Disney animated films or superhero movies, both for family audiences. There’s very little that I can think of aimed at young kids, films like The Goonies, Explorers etc. Films with young kids as the main characters aimed at young kids that they can watch without parental supervision. The only one recently is The Kid Who Would Be King.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 10:24:36 GMT
Spider-Verse proved that it's nowhere near on its way out. If the genre survives Justice League, it can survive anything. To be fair, the genre survived the 90s. There has been nothing in the last 19 years that has rivalled Spawn or either of Joel Schumacher's Batman films for sheer awfulness. Even the lows of modern Marvel/ DC have largely been successful artistically if not critically or commercially. Batman v Superman is right up there with Spawn & the Schumacher Batman films. One of the worst films I have ever seen without merit on any level.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 10:27:05 GMT
I think the latest Avengers film will be something of a turning point in one respect or another. 2012 was the first... Yeah, I'd say the genre is approaching the point where the zeitgeist will change and things will roll over. Zombies faded, adventurers faded, spies faded, but it'd take a mountain to tank the genre. Superheroes -- at least, in the context of Marvel -- have achieved what feels like a permanent sense of recognition as a serious art form. We had the Gallery of Modern Art here host a ticketed exhibition on the production process with the highest sales they had in decades. That's how much clout it's got these days.
I don't think it's a genre that's "done" as such, but I do think theatregoing audiences will start to gravitate to whatever new comes their way. We'll still have superhero films, they just won't be as big a focus as they have been.
|
|
shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,666
|
Post by shutupbanks on Feb 23, 2019 11:11:46 GMT
To be fair, the genre survived the 90s. There has been nothing in the last 19 years that has rivalled Spawn or either of Joel Schumacher's Batman films for sheer awfulness. Even the lows of modern Marvel/ DC have largely been successful artistically if not critically or commercially. Batman v Superman is right up there with Spawn & the Schumacher Batman films. One of the worst films I have ever seen without merit on any level. Then I don't think you've seen very many films. Seriously, it wasn't a brilliant film and it wasn't to the taste of a lot of people but to describe it as "one of the worst films I have ever seen without merit on any level" doesn't leave you with a lot of room to move when you look at the work of Ed Wood or Tommy Wiseau. To stay on topic, the genre also survived Superman IV, a film that is objectively poor on many levels. I really don't think superhero films are going anywhere for a while unless Marvel drop the ball for more than two films in a row.
|
|
|
Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 23, 2019 11:21:09 GMT
Batman v Superman is right up there with Spawn & the Schumacher Batman films. One of the worst films I have ever seen without merit on any level. Then I don't think you've seen very many films. Seriously, it wasn't a brilliant film and it wasn't to the taste of a lot of people but to describe it as "one of the worst films I have ever seen without merit on any level" doesn't leave you with a lot of room to move when you look at the work of Ed Wood or Tommy Wiseau. To to stay on topic, the genre also survived Superman IV, a film that is objectively poor on many levels. I really don't think superhero are going anywhere for a while unless Marvel drop the ball for more than two films in a row. Fant4stic, X Men Origins Wolverine, Blade Trinity, Spawn, Superman 3 & 4, Steel makes BvS look like Donner's Superman by comparison.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2019 11:30:38 GMT
Batman v Superman is right up there with Spawn & the Schumacher Batman films. One of the worst films I have ever seen without merit on any level. Then I don't think you've seen very many films. Seriously, it wasn't a brilliant film and it wasn't to the taste of a lot of people but to describe it as "one of the worst films I have ever seen without merit on any level" doesn't leave you with a lot of room to move when you look at the work of Ed Wood or Tommy Wiseau. Well you are incorrect in your assumption. I have seen a lot of films, from every genre, every decade (since the beginning of film as entertainment), mainstream cinema & arthouse films from around the world. & I stand by my comment. It is incompetently directed with no sense of pacing, inept plotting & has a bad videogame aesthetic. I have seen the work of Ed Wood & one film by Tommy Wiseau, but if a film looks awful I tend to avoid it. However, I didn't say it was the worst film I have ever seen but one of the worst, & given the breadth & depth of my cinematic knowledge Batman v Superman sits on that list of worst films I have ever seen. & of course, saying a film is one of the worst things one has ever seen is of course a purely subjective point of view regardless of how many other films the individual in question has seen.
|
|
shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,666
|
Post by shutupbanks on Feb 23, 2019 11:52:18 GMT
Then I don't think you've seen very many films. Seriously, it wasn't a brilliant film and it wasn't to the taste of a lot of people but to describe it as "one of the worst films I have ever seen without merit on any level" doesn't leave you with a lot of room to move when you look at the work of Ed Wood or Tommy Wiseau. Well you are incorrect in your assumption. I have seen a lot of films, from every genre, every decade (since the beginning of film as entertainment), mainstream cinema & arthouse films from around the world. & I stand by my comment. It is incompetently directed with no sense of pacing, inept plotting & has a bad videogame aesthetic. I have seen the work of Ed Wood & one film by Tommy Wiseau, but if a film looks awful I tend to avoid it. However, I didn't say it was the worst film I have ever seen but one of the worst, & given the breadth & depth of my cinematic knowledge Batman v Superman sits on that list of worst films I have ever seen. & of course, saying a film is one of the worst things one has ever seen is of course a purely subjective point of view regardless of how many other films the individual in question has seen. I'd describe it as average as best, but I think I get where you're coming from. However, my experience has been that getting upset over things designed to entertain me is a zero-sum game: in the long run if I've missed out on a good time I'd count myself as being way ahead of the people that invested months or years of their lives trying to produce said entertainment. I know that they haven't set out to make bad art so I don't see the need to rub their noses in it when they don't succeed. Anyway, superhero movies, eh? Has anyone followed www.tor.com/tag/superhero-movie-rewatch/ over on Tor.com? Some really interesting perspectives on the films, especially given the passage of time on many of them.
|
|
|
Post by masterdoctor on Feb 23, 2019 22:32:28 GMT
Then I don't think you've seen very many films. Seriously, it wasn't a brilliant film and it wasn't to the taste of a lot of people but to describe it as "one of the worst films I have ever seen without merit on any level" doesn't leave you with a lot of room to move when you look at the work of Ed Wood or Tommy Wiseau. To to stay on topic, the genre also survived Superman IV, a film that is objectively poor on many levels. I really don't think superhero are going anywhere for a while unless Marvel drop the ball for more than two films in a row. Fant4stic, X Men Origins Wolverine, Blade Trinity, Spawn, Superman 3 & 4, Steel makes BvS look like Donner's Superman by comparison. Leave X-Men Origins out of this you monster. Just kidding, but I honestly have a soft spot for it.
|
|
|
Post by glutamodo on Feb 23, 2019 22:41:54 GMT
Movies in general popped for me a long time ago. Certain superhero movies were a holdout, but that also was many years ago.
|
|
|
Post by fingersmash on Feb 24, 2019 2:56:26 GMT
Fant4stic, X Men Origins Wolverine, Blade Trinity, Spawn, Superman 3 & 4, Steel makes BvS look like Donner's Superman by comparison. Leave X-Men Origins out of this you monster. Just kidding, but I honestly have a soft spot for it. X-Men Origins is watchable because Hugh Jackman polished a turd of a script into gold.
|
|
|
Post by masterdoctor on Feb 24, 2019 3:55:28 GMT
Leave X-Men Origins out of this you monster. Just kidding, but I honestly have a soft spot for it. X-Men Origins is watchable because Hugh Jackman polished a turd of a script into gold. And Liev Schreiber pulls his wait as well. And of course, it provides great cannon fodder for Deadpool to riff on.
|
|
shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
Likes: 5,666
|
Post by shutupbanks on Feb 24, 2019 3:56:48 GMT
Fant4stic, X Men Origins Wolverine, Blade Trinity, Spawn, Superman 3 & 4, Steel makes BvS look like Donner's Superman by comparison. Leave X-Men Origins out of this you monster. Just kidding, but I honestly have a soft spot for it. All it's faults aside, it did create a world in which there was a community of superheroes/ "uniquely talented individuals" that wasn't really affected by the dominant X-Men themes a little while before the MCU did and I loved it for that.
|
|