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Post by randomjc on Dec 8, 2015 16:55:29 GMT
1) A historical adventure, for all modern doctors. Why the new series is against the historicals stories? It worked very well in "The Doctor's Meditation" What worked in the 60s doesn't work now (unless you go for Horrible Histories-esque silliness). I'll have to disagree. I think The Council of Nicaea, Three's a Crowd, Son of the Dragon, work very well. Nothing says a pure historical can't work today. A proper political thriller, akin to the Reign of Terror, could work beautifully with a modern doctor.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 8, 2015 17:01:27 GMT
What worked in the 60s doesn't work now (unless you go for Horrible Histories-esque silliness). I'll have to disagree. I think The Council of Nicaea, Three's a Crowd, Son of the Dragon, work very well. Nothing says a pure historical can't work today. A proper political thriller, akin to the Reign of Terror, could work beautifully with a modern doctor. The audience of the classic series Doctor audios will be purely adults though, whereas there will be a mixture of age ranges interested in the new series audios therefore I doubt a new series historical audio would work. It would bore the family audience too much.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 8, 2015 17:05:23 GMT
I'll have to disagree. I think The Council of Nicaea, Three's a Crowd, Son of the Dragon, work very well. Nothing says a pure historical can't work today. A proper political thriller, akin to the Reign of Terror, could work beautifully with a modern doctor. The audience of the classic series Doctor audios will be purely adults though, whereas there will be a mixture of age ranges interested in the new series audios therefore I doubt a new series historical audio would work. It would bore the family audience too much. I think you give to little credit to family audiences, and how fun pure historicals can be. Telling a good stories entertain people, whether aliens are in it or not. Tell a good story and you don't have to worry about being "boring."
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 8, 2015 17:12:05 GMT
The audience of the classic series Doctor audios will be purely adults though, whereas there will be a mixture of age ranges interested in the new series audios therefore I doubt a new series historical audio would work. It would bore the family audience too much. I think you give to little credit to family audiences, and how fun pure historicals can be. Telling a good stories entertain people, whether aliens are in it or not. Tell a good story and you don't have to worry about being "boring." To be honest, I don't think I am. Yes, parents of family audiences may like a historical but modern day kids (possibly unlike kids from the 60s but I wasn't alive then, considering I was born in 1995) want monsters and explosions. You only have to look at the period dramas currently on TV to see they're usually on between 8 and 9 in the evening.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 8, 2015 18:16:22 GMT
I think you give to little credit to family audiences, and how fun pure historicals can be. Telling a good stories entertain people, whether aliens are in it or not. Tell a good story and you don't have to worry about being "boring." To be honest, I don't think I am. Yes, parents of family audiences may like a historical but modern day kids (possibly unlike kids from the 60s but I wasn't alive then, considering I was born in 1995) want monsters and explosions. You only have to look at the period dramas currently on TV to see they're usually on between 8 and 9 in the evening. And if I was suggesting Period Dramas... Explosions can happen in pure historicals. Plenty of periods in time where people are fighting each other, for the Doctor to run about in, without a monster popping up. And monsters, well, not ever story that kids like have monsters trying to harm the protagonist.
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 8, 2015 23:45:56 GMT
To be honest, I don't think I am. Yes, parents of family audiences may like a historical but modern day kids (possibly unlike kids from the 60s but I wasn't alive then, considering I was born in 1995) want monsters and explosions. You only have to look at the period dramas currently on TV to see they're usually on between 8 and 9 in the evening. And if I was suggesting Period Dramas... Explosions can happen in pure historicals. Plenty of periods in time where people are fighting each other, for the Doctor to run about in, without a monster popping up. And monsters, well, not ever story that kids like have monsters trying to harm the protagonist. Considering every new series episode bar Listen and Into The Forest Of The Night have monsters, I reckon the chances probably are that every Doctor Who episode liked by kids features a monster of some sort. Sydney Newman may not have liked BEMs but even he was won over by them by Verity Lambert. I just can't see the 10th Doctor exploring Tudor England (for example) or the War Doctor in World War 1 without a Monster of the week winning over any children interested in the new series audios. Whether Big Finish would agree of course is anybody's guess until they give their verdict themselves.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 9, 2015 2:41:18 GMT
And if I was suggesting Period Dramas... Explosions can happen in pure historicals. Plenty of periods in time where people are fighting each other, for the Doctor to run about in, without a monster popping up. And monsters, well, not ever story that kids like have monsters trying to harm the protagonist. Considering every new series episode bar Listen and Into The Forest Of The Night have monsters, I reckon the chances probably are that every Doctor Who episode liked by kids features a monster of some sort. Sydney Newman may not have liked BEMs but even he was won over by them by Verity Lambert. I just can't see the 10th Doctor exploring Tudor England (for example) or the War Doctor in World War 1 without a Monster of the week winning over any children interested in the new series audios. Whether Big Finish would agree of course is anybody's guess until they give their verdict themselves. Well, again you give too little credit to children, and too narrow a focus on Doctor Who. Look at the very popular Inside Out, which not only had no monster, it had no true antagonist. Children can like anything if it's good. And to only point out the other thing both those episodes didn't have was a bad guy. I will reiterate, what you need to entertain a child is not monsters, but an exciting story that doesn't insult them, and considering that plenty of children's and family entertainment don't contain monsters...
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Post by elgranto on Dec 9, 2015 3:03:34 GMT
And if I was suggesting Period Dramas... Explosions can happen in pure historicals. Plenty of periods in time where people are fighting each other, for the Doctor to run about in, without a monster popping up. And monsters, well, not ever story that kids like have monsters trying to harm the protagonist. Considering every new series episode bar Listen and Into The Forest Of The Night have monsters, I reckon the chances probably are that every Doctor Who episode liked by kids features a monster of some sort. Sydney Newman may not have liked BEMs but even he was won over by them by Verity Lambert. I just can't see the 10th Doctor exploring Tudor England (for example) or the War Doctor in World War 1 without a Monster of the week winning over any children interested in the new series audios. Whether Big Finish would agree of course is anybody's guess until they give their verdict themselves. Hopefully BF will stay true to their motto and give priority to telling great stories. They shouldn't feel obliged to have BEMs if certain stories don't call for it. But who knows, maybe they will end up catering to younger audiences (if they do I'd rather it be Ten than the War Doctor; John Hurt's comment about his stories being "mature" gives me some assurance).
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Post by dalekbuster523finish on Dec 9, 2015 9:00:06 GMT
Considering every new series episode bar Listen and Into The Forest Of The Night have monsters, I reckon the chances probably are that every Doctor Who episode liked by kids features a monster of some sort. Sydney Newman may not have liked BEMs but even he was won over by them by Verity Lambert. I just can't see the 10th Doctor exploring Tudor England (for example) or the War Doctor in World War 1 without a Monster of the week winning over any children interested in the new series audios. Whether Big Finish would agree of course is anybody's guess until they give their verdict themselves. Well, again you give too little credit to children, and too narrow a focus on Doctor Who. Look at the very popular Inside Out, which not only had no monster, it had no true antagonist. Children can like anything if it's good. And to only point out the other thing both those episodes didn't have was a bad guy. I will reiterate, what you need to entertain a child is not monsters, but an exciting story that doesn't insult them, and considering that plenty of children's and family entertainment don't contain monsters... The thing is with historicals though is that it would remind many primary/secondary school students of school and that's not what kids want. If Big Finish write any historicals for the new series Doctors, the only way I can see it happening is if they're more comedy-orientated to appeal to the family audiences as well as us fans.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 9, 2015 13:37:35 GMT
Well, again you give too little credit to children, and too narrow a focus on Doctor Who. Look at the very popular Inside Out, which not only had no monster, it had no true antagonist. Children can like anything if it's good. And to only point out the other thing both those episodes didn't have was a bad guy. I will reiterate, what you need to entertain a child is not monsters, but an exciting story that doesn't insult them, and considering that plenty of children's and family entertainment don't contain monsters... The thing is with historicals though is that it would remind many primary/secondary school students of school and that's not what kids want. If Big Finish write any historicals for the new series Doctors, the only way I can see it happening is if they're more comedy-orientated to appeal to the family audiences as well as us fans. Considering neither of us are school children, perhaps we should stop assuming what they would/would not think.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 14:13:04 GMT
The thing is with historicals though is that it would remind many primary/secondary school students of school and that's not what kids want. If Big Finish write any historicals for the new series Doctors, the only way I can see it happening is if they're more comedy-orientated to appeal to the family audiences as well as us fans. Considering neither of us are school children, perhaps we should stop assuming what they would/would not think. Speaking as someone who grew up on the "educational" Hartnell era, I can safely say that there's room in every child's head and heart for a bit of wisdom and intelligence in their stories. I have the fondest memories of dear, poor Barbara's struggle to avert the destruction of the Aztecs and the Doctor's concealed anguish at watching a dear friend learn the cruel, harsh lessons of history. John Lucarotti's painstaking efforts to paint the various facets of the culture as he could get away with in the runtime with every nuance and every detail wasn't lost on me, I most certainly appreciated it. In fact, I enjoyed it as much as its immediate predecessor's attempts to paint the various exotic and adventuresome locales of the planet Marinus while they quested for the keys to the Conscience. Each historical was met with praise, gusto and it was only until The Romans that I began to struggle with them. Why? Because slotted between Ian's desperate attempts to survive the abradants of the Roman Empire were these bizarre sequences with Barbara fleeing the advances of Nero. It left me completely bewildered as a child because the comedy fell absolutely flat. No question. There's this sentiment that's been around since the birth of television that you have to write down to children and to be frank I think that's an appalling approach to take. Children are far more intelligent and far more open to the wisdom of the world than many people are willing or even able to notice. No audience enjoys having their intelligence insulted and I certainly didn't. Every kid has the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from their experiences, so why not offer the best you can afford? Show them moral quandaries, show them heroes that are forced and tempted into untenable positions and show them what the true evils of the world look like because they will appreciate your understanding and even better: they may actually learn something about themselves or the world around them. ~ That said, I'd love to see a survival story, something that really pushes the Eleventh Doctor to his limits a la The Caves of Androzani. Personally, he always seemed to be trapped in a universe where he often got the easy way out, much like the TV!Fifth Doctor. I would adore seeing him brought down to the earth, trying to inject some of his almost magical optimism into a grim situation like the Vietnam War and failing; seeing how (or if) he copes with such a difficult situation.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 9, 2015 14:24:05 GMT
Considering neither of us are school children, perhaps we should stop assuming what they would/would not think. Speaking as someone who grew up on the "educational" Hartnell era, I can safely say that there's room in every child's head and heart for a bit of wisdom and intelligence in their stories. I have the fondest memories of dear, poor Barbara's struggle to avert the destruction of the Aztecs and the Doctor's concealed anguish at watching a dear friend learn the cruel, harsh lessons of history. John Lucarotti's painstaking efforts to paint the various facets of the culture as he could get away with in the runtime with every nuance and every detail wasn't lost on me, I most certainly appreciated it. In fact, I enjoyed it as much as its immediate predecessor's attempts to paint the various exotic and adventuresome locales of the planet Marinus while they quested for the keys to the Conscience. Each historical was met with praise, gusto and it was only until The Romans that I began to struggle with them. Why? Because slotted between Ian's desperate attempts to survive the abradants of the Roman Empire were these bizarre sequences with Barbara fleeing the advances of Nero. It left me completely bewildered as a child because the comedy fell absolutely flat. No question. There's this sentiment that's been around since the birth of television that you have to write down to children and to be frank I think that's an appalling approach to take. Children are far more intelligent and far more open to the wisdom of the world than many people are willing or even able to notice. No audience enjoys having their intelligence insulted and I certainly didn't. Every kid has the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from their experiences, so why not offer the best you can afford? Show them moral quandaries, show them heroes that are forced and tempted into untenable positions and show them what the true evils of the world look like because they will appreciate your understanding and even better: they may actually learn something about themselves or the world around them. Personally, I was a fan of school house rock and sesame street as a kid. And for the record, I like the Romans, more for Doctor/Vicki segments. I could listen to the Eleventh Doctor just idly roaming around being very Hartnell in his glee of everything that's going on, basking in his companions awe of it all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 14:37:37 GMT
Speaking as someone who grew up on the "educational" Hartnell era, I can safely say that there's room in every child's head and heart for a bit of wisdom and intelligence in their stories. I have the fondest memories of dear, poor Barbara's struggle to avert the destruction of the Aztecs and the Doctor's concealed anguish at watching a dear friend learn the cruel, harsh lessons of history. John Lucarotti's painstaking efforts to paint the various facets of the culture as he could get away with in the runtime with every nuance and every detail wasn't lost on me, I most certainly appreciated it. In fact, I enjoyed it as much as its immediate predecessor's attempts to paint the various exotic and adventuresome locales of the planet Marinus while they quested for the keys to the Conscience. Each historical was met with praise, gusto and it was only until The Romans that I began to struggle with them. Why? Because slotted between Ian's desperate attempts to survive the abradants of the Roman Empire were these bizarre sequences with Barbara fleeing the advances of Nero. It left me completely bewildered as a child because the comedy fell absolutely flat. No question. There's this sentiment that's been around since the birth of television that you have to write down to children and to be frank I think that's an appalling approach to take. Children are far more intelligent and far more open to the wisdom of the world than many people are willing or even able to notice. No audience enjoys having their intelligence insulted and I certainly didn't. Every kid has the ability to comprehend; to understand and profit from their experiences, so why not offer the best you can afford? Show them moral quandaries, show them heroes that are forced and tempted into untenable positions and show them what the true evils of the world look like because they will appreciate your understanding and even better: they may actually learn something about themselves or the world around them. Personally, I was a fan of school house rock and sesame street as a kid. And for the record, I like the Romans, more for Doctor/Vicki segments. I could listen to the Eleventh Doctor just idly roaming around being very Hartnell in his glee of everything that's going on, basking in his companions awe of it all. My opinion of The Romans has definitely softened with age, the Doctor besting his assassin with moves he learnt from the Mountain Mauler of Montana, only for Vicki to chase him away out a window is absolutely hilarious. You could drop the Eleventh Doctor, Amy and Rory smack down into the sacking of Rome and no one would bat an eyelid, but that's the thing... If Big Finish were to take up the reins I'd like to see them stick this Doctor in situations he'd be unfamiliar with. Can you imagine Eleven standing in the court of Caligula and trying to survive the whims and caprices of the mad emperor in the style of I, Claudius? For me, certainly not at first, but that's what makes it so interesting. It places a well-known character in an unknown environment. It's classic Doctor Who material.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 9, 2015 14:45:59 GMT
Personally, I was a fan of school house rock and sesame street as a kid. And for the record, I like the Romans, more for Doctor/Vicki segments. I could listen to the Eleventh Doctor just idly roaming around being very Hartnell in his glee of everything that's going on, basking in his companions awe of it all. My opinion of The Romans has definitely softened with age, the Doctor besting his assassin with moves he learnt from the Mountain Mauler of Montana, only for Vicki to chase him away out a window is absolutely hilarious. You could drop the Eleventh Doctor, Amy and Rory smack down into the sacking of Rome and no one would bat an eyelid, but that's the thing... If Big Finish were to take up the reins I'd like to see them stick this Doctor in situations he'd be unfamiliar with. Can you imagine Eleven standing in the court of Caligula and trying to survive the whims and caprices of the mad emperor in the style of I, Claudius? For me, certainly not at first, but that's what makes it so interesting. It places a well-known character in an unknown environment. It's classic Doctor Who material. I don't disagree, but I don't always want that. A good mix of stories where he is absolutely in control and just enjoying himself, like Hartnell in the Romans. and of course where he is at the mercy of everything around him, just trying to deal, like Davison in Caves of Androzani. I want both, so would love them to balance the type of stories told.
That being said, I want a box set of pure historicals now.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 15:03:32 GMT
My opinion of The Romans has definitely softened with age, the Doctor besting his assassin with moves he learnt from the Mountain Mauler of Montana, only for Vicki to chase him away out a window is absolutely hilarious. You could drop the Eleventh Doctor, Amy and Rory smack down into the sacking of Rome and no one would bat an eyelid, but that's the thing... If Big Finish were to take up the reins I'd like to see them stick this Doctor in situations he'd be unfamiliar with. Can you imagine Eleven standing in the court of Caligula and trying to survive the whims and caprices of the mad emperor in the style of I, Claudius? For me, certainly not at first, but that's what makes it so interesting. It places a well-known character in an unknown environment. It's classic Doctor Who material. I don't disagree, but I don't always want that. A good mix of stories where he is absolutely in control and just enjoying himself, like Hartnell in the Romans. and of course where he is at the mercy of everything around him, just trying to deal, like Davison in Caves of Androzani. I want both, so would love them to balance the type of stories told.
That being said, I want a box set of pure historicals now.
Absolutely, variety is always a marvellous commodity. Same. I'd enjoy seeing a little bit of African history unravelled in a story or two after listening to The Ghosts of Gralstead again or have him spend a little time in the company of the Russian Tsars during the Crimean War.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 9, 2015 15:04:34 GMT
I don't disagree, but I don't always want that. A good mix of stories where he is absolutely in control and just enjoying himself, like Hartnell in the Romans. and of course where he is at the mercy of everything around him, just trying to deal, like Davison in Caves of Androzani. I want both, so would love them to balance the type of stories told.
That being said, I want a box set of pure historicals now.
Absolutely, variety is always a marvellous commodity. Same. I'd enjoy seeing a little bit of African history unravelled in a story or two after listening to The Ghosts of Gralstead again or have him spend a little time in the company of the Russian Tsars during the Crimean War. I'm going to have to stop thinking about this. It's making me depressed that we probably won't see a Pure Historicals box set.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2015 15:23:05 GMT
Absolutely, variety is always a marvellous commodity. Same. I'd enjoy seeing a little bit of African history unravelled in a story or two after listening to The Ghosts of Gralstead again or have him spend a little time in the company of the Russian Tsars during the Crimean War. I'm going to have to stop thinking about this. It's making me depressed that we probably won't see a Pure Historicals box set. Never say die. We may not get a pure historicals boxset, but the writers and producers at Big Finish tend to keep an ear to the ground on the forums. Given some luck and hard enough wishing, we may just see that slew of pure historicals yet. Anything's possible now that the sacred lamb of impossibilities, NuWho coming to audio, has been achieved.
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Post by randomjc on Dec 9, 2015 15:24:29 GMT
I'm going to have to stop thinking about this. It's making me depressed that we probably won't see a Pure Historicals box set. Never say die. We may not get a pure historicals boxset, but the writers and producers at Big Finish tend to keep an ear to the ground on the forums. Given some luck and hard enough wishing, we may just see that slew of pure historicals yet. Anything's possible now that the sacred lamb of impossibilities, NuWho coming to audio, has been achieved. Now to get a second job! I must afford this stuff.
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Post by yiffniff on Dec 9, 2015 20:55:31 GMT
I'll have to disagree. I think The Council of Nicaea, Three's a Crowd, Son of the Dragon, work very well. Nothing says a pure historical can't work today. A proper political thriller, akin to the Reign of Terror, could work beautifully with a modern doctor. The audience of the classic series Doctor audios will be purely adults though, whereas there will be a mixture of age ranges interested in the new series audios therefore I doubt a new series historical audio would work. It would bore the family audience too much. I'm also going to disagree. If it's a good story, well told, that the main determining factor. Personally, I tire, a bit, with the show of having a monster - every - episode. Mix it up. That's what makes this show fun. Give me a Kingmaker-esque historical I can really dig my teeth into and feel like I'm getting my money's worth, and I'm all in.
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Post by icecreamdf on Dec 9, 2015 21:06:24 GMT
Eleven needs a hat that he keeps for more than one or two episodes.
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