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Post by jacobz40 on Dec 18, 2019 12:42:36 GMT
For those of you who have listened, would you say that Genesis of the Daleks is required viewing? Not at all, it’s actually barely got anything to do with Genesis of the Daleks itself really. You just need to know the story exists and that it’s the Daleks’ origin. Thanks!
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Post by elkawho on Dec 18, 2019 16:00:18 GMT
{Spoiler} I thought this was a terrific set. Smart, complicated (in a good way) and a good, satisfying payoff at the end. I had to listen to From The Flames twice because I wasn't paying close enough attention the first time. I like having Narvin playing such a large part of this story, and it was the old Narvin. The Narvin who kept secrets, whose motivations were based on "the means justify the ends." I'm not much of a fan of the old Gallifrey series, but I did love that Narvin. I can't remember the name of the Time Lord commander off the top of head, but I thought she was an interesting choice for a character. We rarely see Time Lords that jaded and emotional .
The Master's Dalek Plan was fantastic. I spent the first half thinking, "Why? Why is he doing this? I don't understand!" And the comment that Dalek is NOT Kaled backwards cracked me up. I love Jacobi's Master's sense of humor, and pairing that with the destruction he does works so well. And while I agree that you don't have to have any knowledge of Genesis of the Daleks, or of Skaro history to enjoy these stories, knowing the show and having heard I, Davros certainly heightens the enjoyment.
I love that these War Master sets take their time with the Master's plots and plans. In each one we are left in the dark to watch his schemes come together, and this one takes 4 stories, allowing us to watch his plans from beginning to the brutal end. I love how he seems so unsatisfied with the ending, trying to talk himself into enjoying the victory. Why he couldn't figure out how it would all end himself is the question. We KNOW that the Daleks turn on Davros, yet like the latter the Master just can't help putting all his eggs in that basket.
Mark Gatiss was a gem to have in this set. His Master is certainly THE Master, however there was certainly a palpable difference between him and the others we have had in this universe. Maybe it's due to the fact that this Master knows what it's like to live in a Universe that, no matter how many of his plans succeed, is dying. He seems more circumspect, more willing to work for something that, while still self-serving, is not complete and utter destruction for everyone around him.
I really enjoyed the Behind The Scenes as well. Scott Handcock is always able to give us BTS tracks that are different and entertaining. Derek Jacobi seems to thoroughly enjoy his time with Big Finish, and it was interesting to hear Mark Gatiss talk about where BF is as compared to where it started. All in all, this was listening time well spent. I'm glad this isn't the last we are going to hear from these Masters.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2019 16:11:11 GMT
How does this compare to the other Master boxsets? Where would it sit in a ranking? I loved Only the Good but hated The Master of Callous. Haven't listened to all of Rage of the Time Lords yet (is this required listening?)
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Post by sherlock on Dec 18, 2019 16:16:37 GMT
{Spoiler} I thought this was a terrific set. Smart, complicated (in a good way) and a good, satisfying payoff at the end. I had to listen to From The Flames twice because I wasn't paying close enough attention the first time. I like having Narvin playing such a large part of this story, and it was the old Narvin. The Narvin who kept secrets, whose motivations were based on "the means justify the ends." I'm not much of a fan of the old Gallifrey series, but I did love that Narvin. I can't remember the name of the Time Lord commander off the top of head, but I thought she was an interesting choice for a character. We rarely see Time Lords that jaded and emotional .
The Master's Dalek Plan was fantastic. I spent the first half thinking, "Why? Why is he doing this? I don't understand!" And the comment that Dalek is NOT Kaled backwards cracked me up. I love Jacobi's Master's sense of humor, and pairing that with the destruction he does works so well. And while I agree that you don't have to have any knowledge of Genesis of the Daleks, or of Skaro history to enjoy these stories, knowing the show and having heard I, Davros certainly heightens the enjoyment.
I love that these War Master sets take their time with the Master's plots and plans. In each one we are left in the dark to watch his schemes come together, and this one takes 4 stories, allowing us to watch his plans from beginning to the brutal end. I love how he seems so unsatisfied with the ending, trying to talk himself into enjoying the victory. Why he couldn't figure out how it would all end himself is the question. We KNOW that the Daleks turn on Davros, yet like the latter the Master just can't help putting all his eggs in that basket.
Mark Gatiss was a gem to have in this set. His Master is certainly THE Master, however there was certainly a palpable difference between him and the others we have had in this universe. Maybe it's due to the fact that this Master knows what it's like to live in a Universe that, no matter how many of his plans succeed, is dying. He seems more circumspect, more willing to work for something that, while still self-serving, is not complete and utter destruction for everyone around him.
I really enjoyed the Behind The Scenes as well. Scott Handcock is always able to give us BTS tracks that are different and entertaining. Derek Jacobi seems to thoroughly enjoy his time with Big Finish, and it was interesting to hear Mark Gatiss talk about where BF is as compared to where it started. All in all, this was listening time well spent. I'm glad this isn't the last we are going to hear from these Masters.
{Spoiler} I took that as symptomatic of the Master’s arrogance. He believes that as he is superior to Davros, he wouldn’t make the same mistake. And in fairness to him, the Daleks turned on Davros after a few days whereas his Daleks evidently take years/centuries to begin to question him.
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Post by mark687 on Dec 18, 2019 16:41:56 GMT
How does this compare to the other Master boxsets? Where would it sit in a ranking? I loved Only the Good but hated The Master of Callous. Haven't listened to all of Rage of the Time Lords yet (is this required listening?) I think its down to personal taste. but they do work independently of each other I agree Only the Good is the best all round but in both Master of Callous and Anti-Genesis there is such a "Zing" between the 3 leads Rage of the Timelords is slightly the odd one out, not that it isn't good, but maybe would have worked better as an 8th doc Time War focused box. Regards mark687
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Post by elkawho on Dec 19, 2019 4:02:52 GMT
I think this one is fighting Only The Good for top billing. Well worth it.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 19, 2019 11:14:36 GMT
How early in the Tine War is this? I mean {Spoiler} The Time Lords could sterilise Skaro in the past and didn’t? The Daleks fire off a Time Destructor as a last resort? Human soldiers are part of a battle and the Time Lords think they could win?
this has to be the earliest “actual engagement” we’ve seen (not counting the Doctor being used to undo Dalek Genesis or The Daleks creating parallel timelines (in Day of the Daleks)).
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Post by axelotl38 on Dec 19, 2019 11:46:19 GMT
I really liked this. I saw some people saying it's too different to Series 1-3 but frankly, whilst I do really like them (though I do think the sets are somewhat overrated in aspects).....they were starting to do the same formulas. So it was nice having a rather different story, and I think Briggs/Barnes did a cracking job. Plus, blimey they make me laugh sometimes. Genuinely cracked me up. And Jacobi's performance is just phenomenal.
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Dec 19, 2019 13:54:19 GMT
How early in the Tine War is this? I mean {Spoiler} The Time Lords could sterilise Skaro in the past and didn’t? The Daleks fire off a Time Destructor as a last resort? Human soldiers are part of a battle and the Time Lords think they could win?
this has to be the earliest “actual engagement” we’ve seen (not counting the Doctor being used to undo Dalek Genesis or The Daleks creating parallel timelines (in Day of the Daleks)). Well from Gallifrey's direct perspective it’s only a few months into the War at most as Livia is still President.
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Post by IndieMacUser on Dec 20, 2019 12:25:50 GMT
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Post by Whovitt on Dec 20, 2019 16:47:12 GMT
I'd like to stress this before you read the rest of my post: I enjoyed this a lot. It's felt like the whole range has been building up to this release and the wait has certainly paid off. Having said that, I do have a few niggles with it: - The recycling of lines from Genesis of the Daleks was nice in the first couple of episodes when it seemed the Master was deliberately using them, but by the time we got to the last episode and there was no longer any irony in them they became a bit irritating (and predictable).
- Speaking of predictable, the "future projections" was exactly where I'd imagined the story was heading by the end of the first episode. Having deduced that, there is a real sense of just padding the run time until we get to the fourth episode.
- The repetitive nature of episode three does nothing to abate the sense of padding during the middle of the story (it was the only part of the release I didn't enjoy while I was actually listening to it).
- It felt like neither Nick nor Alan had heard a Narvin story in about ten years and consequently his characterisation was about a decade behind where it's at now, so slotting this into the Gallifrey: Time War series feels very awkward.
- The "resolution" to the Gatiss Master also bugged me - what actually happened? Is it going to be explained in Masterful? It felt like they ran out of time to give him a proper conclusion and just had him magically disappear to make things easier (and this episode overran by nearly ten minutes!).
- And what was with Lamarius? She was built up as this big important character who basically becomes totally unimportant and removed from the plot in the space of five minutes (even though she technically wasn't removed from the plot but we never heard from her again anyway). I felt like we were really going somewhere with this character and her complete absence from the final episode just seems weird looking back on the story as a whole.
Like I said, I did actually enjoy this release while I was listening to it, but I'm starting to find a few flaws in it that kind of upset the experience on reflection. I fully intend to listen to this set again, but I think I'll leave it for a bit so these thoughts hopefully won't plague my enjoyment of it then.
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Post by elkawho on Dec 21, 2019 14:22:06 GMT
I'd like to stress this before you read the rest of my post: I enjoyed this a lot. It's felt like the whole range has been building up to this release and the wait has certainly paid off. Having said that, I do have a few niggles with it: - The recycling of lines from Genesis of the Daleks was nice in the first couple of episodes when it seemed the Master was deliberately using them, but by the time we got to the last episode and there was no longer any irony in them they became a bit irritating (and predictable).
- Speaking of predictable, the "future projections" was exactly where I'd imagined the story was heading by the end of the first episode. Having deduced that, there is a real sense of just padding the run time until we get to the fourth episode.
- The repetitive nature of episode three does nothing to abate the sense of padding during the middle of the story (it was the only part of the release I didn't enjoy while I was actually listening to it).
- It felt like neither Nick nor Alan had heard a Narvin story in about ten years and consequently his characterisation was about a decade behind where it's at now, so slotting this into the Gallifrey: Time War series feels very awkward.
- The "resolution" to the Gatiss Master also bugged me - what actually happened? Is it going to be explained in Masterful? It felt like they ran out of time to give him a proper conclusion and just had him magically disappear to make things easier (and this episode overran by nearly ten minutes!).
- And what was with Lamarius? She was built up as this big important character who basically becomes totally unimportant and removed from the plot in the space of five minutes (even though she technically wasn't removed from the plot but we never heard from her again anyway). I felt like we were really going somewhere with this character and her complete absence from the final episode just seems weird looking back on the story as a whole.
Like I said, I did actually enjoy this release while I was listening to it, but I'm starting to find a few flaws in it that kind of upset the experience on reflection. I fully intend to listen to this set again, but I think I'll leave it for a bit so these thoughts hopefully won't plague my enjoyment of it then. Yeah, it definitely felt like the old Narvin. I have to agree that it felt like his characterization was odd in this. I enjoyed it immensely, but yeah, it was odd. In fact, if they hadn't mentioned in the audio that he couldn't regenerate, I would have thought they had forgotten. Narvin became a little more cautious and circumspect after that, but this story had none of that. I chalked that up to the Time War. That the strain of the Time War and the need for him to be proactive and more hawkish in order to do right by his people allowed that side of him to resurface.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 21, 2019 16:09:58 GMT
Started on the first story. Hmmm. I admit I got confused by the story a couple of times. For some reason it does not flow well and there are a couple of plot jumps that left me scratching my head as to what had happened. I got the gist in the end, however, the way there was a bit uneven. An the plus side- this is basically several villains cackling at and double-crossing each other. Is there any "good" guy in this? This is simply delicious. And the Jacobi Master is as great as usual. As for Narvin... I only have listened to the Gallifrey Time War stories so far (and none of the older series) and I agree that his characterization is off. I wonder if this is an effect of the Time War and of the shifting time-lines? Maybe it becomes clearer later in the set? Anyways. Curious now how the story progresses.
Edit- I progressed a bit further. For some reason, this also feels different from other Master releases. At first I could not point my finger at why that is, but I did some thinking... I think it is because in these stories, the Master does not hold anything back and he definitely is not hiding his villainy, but wears them in bold proud dark colours. This alone changes the "feel" of the story. This is not a sneaky evil snake slowly creeping up and whispering in your ear like in the previous sets... this is a black dragon smashing down the gates. And it is glorious.
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Post by Digi on Dec 21, 2019 22:10:01 GMT
Well, parts 3 and 4 were completely insane. I kind of feel like I should have been taking notes just to keep up, because I felt like it lost me on more than one occasion, and I had to back up 10 minutes to figure out what was happening. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, still found it enjoyable. Just means that I'll be enjoying it a bit more each re-listen as things become clearer in my head Also totally agree with what you say, tuigirl, in that this is a War Master who has dumped his subtlety and just gone whole-hog with sadistic villainy. It's a different kind of intimidating, but it absolutely is intimidating and frightening to see the Master unleashed in this way.
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Post by Digi on Dec 21, 2019 22:30:39 GMT
Oh, hey, regarding the entry of Gatiss...
When we meet him in part 3, his universe--ie: the Unbound universe--is utterly defeated and collapsing in on itself. Is it completely toast now? Would that mean that the Unbound Doctor is now a permanent resident of our universe, meaning there are two distinct active Doctors with their own regeneration cycles?
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 21, 2019 23:53:02 GMT
Oh, hey, regarding the entry of Gatiss... When we meet him in part 3, his universe--ie: the Unbound universe--is utterly defeated and collapsing in on itself. Is it completely toast now? Would that mean that the Unbound Doctor is now a permanent resident of our universe, meaning there are two distinct active Doctors with their own regeneration cycles? Just started on the third story and laughed out loud. These first 5 mins are hilarious. {Spoiler} „You are now a prisoner of the Daleks.“ Master doing a happy dance fist pumping: „Yes!!!“ Brilliant. As for the Unbound Universe... well, either the Master has been exiled to another universe or it is, indeed, toast. So Sister Superior was not as effective as thought... or was away having a tea for 5 mins and not watching. As for the Unbound Doctor... I had thought he was now in the prime universe to stay. And there was a tease he might be meeting the Time Lords in the next set. Might even bump into some of his prime universe incarnations. He is awesome, so pretty much looking forward to that. And another thought on this set of stories... There seems to be a common theme in BF this year popping up a lot. Or am I wrong? I am of course talking about... {Spoiler} Werewolves
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Dec 22, 2019 0:44:47 GMT
Oh, hey, regarding the entry of Gatiss... When we meet him in part 3, his universe--ie: the Unbound universe--is utterly defeated and collapsing in on itself. Is it completely toast now? Would that mean that the Unbound Doctor is now a permanent resident of our universe, meaning there are two distinct active Doctors with their own regeneration cycles? Well I don’t think the Unbound Doctor ever had any intention of going back even if there was hope for the Unbound Universe.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 22, 2019 16:05:02 GMT
Just finished the third story. Wow, that was awesome. In a box set that stared out so grim and unrelenting, the Gatiss Master adds much needed relief. He is witty, cynical, exasperated and full of deadly charm. I had not expected this, but this story is just pure timely-whimey fun. I actually had a grin in my face, I enjoyed it so much. As for the War Master.... he has never been more deadly {Spoiler} So far, he has not only killed Davros, he also cold- heartedly kills the Doctor without looking him in the face (quite uncharacteristic, I wonder if that is a clue to something later on ?). {Spoiler} He basically becomes an evil force destroying the universe, having lost all the charm and playfulness his alternate self has in spades and which serve as a great contrast.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 22, 2019 21:31:58 GMT
Aaand I finished the set. He who wins is a great finale. The Master has won. He is the Time Lord Victorious. How can this possibly end?
This continues a very complex plot spun over all the four episodes. There is plenty of timey-whimey-ness, but there is also space for introspection for the Master, and then you have the wonderful scenes with the Gatiss Master. Very clever story, well done ending.
Overall- I loved all the interesting characters, also the immigrants from Gallifrey in all of their different time-line versions.
I loved the clever story which will definitely benefit from several re-listens. But I think my favorite part by far was the Unbound Master. He is absolutely amazing and he is what turns the whole thing into fun. It was a stroke of genius to include him, because he saves this from becoming too grim and depressing. He is just so playful and full of charm- something that the War Master seems to have discarded in his victory tour.
Question concerning the ending: {Spoiler} Does the ending lead directly into "Into the Viscoid"? And the Gatiss Master {Spoiler} Is he back in his Unbound castle waiting for the next guy to pick him up? Or did he get his wish and go to another different universe?
Also I would like to point out- the Big Finish Writers who have told us that
{Spoiler} Davros was not in this set They have obviously lied to us.
{Spoiler} Davros is there. Just not for very long.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 22, 2019 21:43:30 GMT
OMG just listened to the extras. I laughed so hard. There is a whole track of Nick and Sir Derek playing with Nick's ring modulator....
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