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Post by tuigirl on Dec 22, 2019 21:53:32 GMT
How does this compare to the other Master boxsets? Where would it sit in a ranking? I loved Only the Good but hated The Master of Callous. Haven't listened to all of Rage of the Time Lords yet (is this required listening?) Well, Only the Good is still the best. That one might be one of the best things BF has done for a while. Anti-Genesis comes close second, however, like some other members have said. It has however a completely different feel to it- it is less the sneaky Master acting out of the shadows, it is more superiority and dominant villainy. I personally have not listened to Master of Callous, so cannot make a judgement.
As for Rage of the Time Lords... no, it is not required.
I liked it, but that was mainly because it is one of the best 8th Doctor Time War stories (only surpassed by Lies in Ruins and War Valeyard).
In my personal ranking of the Time War releases, I would rank them: 1. Only the Good 2. Lies in Ruins 3. War Valeyard 4. Anti-Genesis
5. Gallifrey Time War 1 6. Rage of the Time Lords 7. Gallifrey Time War 2 Then the War Doctor releases And then the rest of the 8th Doctor Time War stories.
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Post by number13 on Dec 22, 2019 22:34:35 GMT
Aaand I finished the set. He who wins is a great finale. The Master has won. He is the Time Lord Victorious. How can this possibly end?
Answers are (I think)
Yes, the ending does that.
Yes, he gets a new 'home' (the old one being no longer there.) Yes, they did, didn't they? Let's say: They kept it spoiler-free for us, nice people that they are.
I loved the set too! Agree, a close second to 'Only The Good' which is truly outstanding. And there is so much head-spinning timey-wimey stuff here that multiple re-listens will be in order and I bet I find something new each time! Having said that, NB and AB did a great job of making it understandable on first listen even with the complexities, and for people who don't follow 'Gallifrey'/'8DA Time War'. Or even for someone who hasn't seen 'Genesis of the Daleks'. (Tip: if anyone hasn't, DO!)
I loved it from start to finish. Two terrific Masters, packed with varied Daleks - and Narvin too! Really excellent.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 23, 2019 8:47:36 GMT
Well, tis is hard to admit .... but I gave up on it. Two episodes in and I wasn’t getting enthralled.
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 23, 2019 17:44:26 GMT
Halfway through and not massively impressed so far. I’m aware it’s very much one whole story, though, so will post my thoughts after finishing the set.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 23, 2019 18:39:34 GMT
To you guys feeling disappointed... at least try the beginning of the third story. This is where the story picks up and where it does get really good. The Gatiss Master is amazing. Plus he adds some much needed evil cheer to the otherwise depressive affair.
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 24, 2019 14:07:35 GMT
What an odd set. I didn't hate it, I did rather like it, but it could have been something special. It's got such a great big concept behind it, but I don't think Briggs & Barnes were up to the task. Just thinking about it now whilst typing up this post and the flaws are at the forefront of my mind: - Narvin isn't anything like his Time War self. I have seen some people chalk it up to Time War events, which is fine, but I think it's just sloppy characterisation.
- The repetition of Genesis of the Daleks lines grows tired and lacks any irony; fanservice of the worst kind.
- Lamarius amounts to nothing and is quietly forgotten about, so her scenes and involvement seem like a waste of time in the end.
- Shockwave has a lot of potential, with two Master's and their respective Daleks, but it's just wasted in favour of repetition that isn't well executed. It's the sort of story which would be a quick sequence on film, but harder to get across in audio and therefore bloats the set.
- The story is bleak and needs some black comedy to suit it. Instead Barnes uses cheap gags that are out of place and not particularly clever.
It's frustrating because the first three sets are brilliant - Only the Good and The Master of Callous especially - and I can see that Anti-Genesis is trying something different and it isn't a set without merit. I loved that the War Master was completely evil, not even attempting to be his typical gentlemanly self, and becomes like a deranged dictator. I loved the Master's deceit in From the Flames. I loved that it feels as though The Master of Callous and Rage of the Time Lords had been building up to this. I loved the inclusion of the Gatiss Master and how he plays into events with his secret Dalek task force.
Unfortunately, it's the negatives that overwhelm my thoughts and they dampen the overall story somewhat. I did like it, but for me it's also comfortably the worst of the four sets and a slight blip in an otherwise brilliant range. I can't wait to hear more from the War Master in Masterful and hopefully beyond.
Merry Christmas to you all!
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Dec 25, 2019 9:46:05 GMT
Sadly - I shall be removing this one from my iPod.
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 27, 2019 9:02:24 GMT
Loved it, this was dark, gory, gritty, batsh.t insane & one of the best story's to ever feature the Master, Sir Derek Jacobi delivers a masterful performance who's clearly relishing the evilness of the character & sounds like he's having a whale of a time playing the character, Jacobi is now my second favourite Master & he scene steals every scene he appears in, kudos also to Mark Gatiss to who gives a charming understated performance as the alternative Master who's charming coolness is the perfect incarnation to the War Master's ruthless evilness.
Nick Briggs & Alan Barnes have written a dark,twisted, ingenious story which nearly tops I Davros for being one of the most disturbingly gruesome entertaining audio dramas Big Finish have ever done.
Love all 4 War Master box sets, more please Big Finish.
5/5.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2019 6:50:21 GMT
Still haven’t started it ....I thought I’d have a relisten to what Are You Listening Today thread lol
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 28, 2019 8:38:41 GMT
Still haven’t started it ....I thought I’d have a relisten to what Are You Listening Today thread lol Curious what you think about it. But certainly not a release for any kind of mood. With the Master going all out evil and all that.
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Post by BHTvsTFC on Dec 28, 2019 20:17:43 GMT
Painful - an exercise in excremental fanjodrell at it's absolute nadir. Once again the release reinforces my belief that Nick only employs Alan Barnes so he can say he isn't the worst writer at Big Finish. Someone needs to tell Barnes that he knows sod all about comic relief, black comedy or comedy of any kind.
I just felt so sorry for Derek Jacobi and (an increasingly weary sounding) Mark Gatiss for having to read those lines.
In case you wondered I didn't like it very much - it ranks alongside the last River set as the worst release of the year for me. Ironically both have never set a foot wrong before hand!
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 30, 2019 11:17:15 GMT
I'd like to stress this before you read the rest of my post: I enjoyed this a lot. It's felt like the whole range has been building up to this release and the wait has certainly paid off. Having said that, I do have a few niggles with it: - The recycling of lines from Genesis of the Daleks was nice in the first couple of episodes when it seemed the Master was deliberately using them, but by the time we got to the last episode and there was no longer any irony in them they became a bit irritating (and predictable).
- Speaking of predictable, the "future projections" was exactly where I'd imagined the story was heading by the end of the first episode. Having deduced that, there is a real sense of just padding the run time until we get to the fourth episode.
- The repetitive nature of episode three does nothing to abate the sense of padding during the middle of the story (it was the only part of the release I didn't enjoy while I was actually listening to it).
- It felt like neither Nick nor Alan had heard a Narvin story in about ten years and consequently his characterisation was about a decade behind where it's at now, so slotting this into the Gallifrey: Time War series feels very awkward.
- The "resolution" to the Gatiss Master also bugged me - what actually happened? Is it going to be explained in Masterful? It felt like they ran out of time to give him a proper conclusion and just had him magically disappear to make things easier (and this episode overran by nearly ten minutes!).
- And what was with Lamarius? She was built up as this big important character who basically becomes totally unimportant and removed from the plot in the space of five minutes (even though she technically wasn't removed from the plot but we never heard from her again anyway). I felt like we were really going somewhere with this character and her complete absence from the final episode just seems weird looking back on the story as a whole.
Like I said, I did actually enjoy this release while I was listening to it, but I'm starting to find a few flaws in it that kind of upset the experience on reflection. I fully intend to listen to this set again, but I think I'll leave it for a bit so these thoughts hopefully won't plague my enjoyment of it then. Yeah, it definitely felt like the old Narvin. I have to agree that it felt like his characterization was odd in this. I enjoyed it immensely, but yeah, it was odd. In fact, if they hadn't mentioned in the audio that he couldn't regenerate, I would have thought they had forgotten. Narvin became a little more cautious and circumspect after that, but this story had none of that. I chalked that up to the Time War. That the strain of the Time War and the need for him to be proactive and more hawkish in order to do right by his people allowed that side of him to resurface. Yes, Narvin was slightly like the older Narvin, but I didn't see this as inconsistent in the context - it is Narvin as he is without the positive influence of Romana around.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 30, 2019 11:29:50 GMT
I liked this one. I think Master of Callous was the best set of the 4, but this was good. Perhaps a bit too fannish, but enjoyable all the same.
Like others, I wasn't quite sure what happened to Gatiss at the end.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 30, 2019 11:32:05 GMT
{Spoiler} I thought this was a terrific set. Smart, complicated (in a good way) and a good, satisfying payoff at the end. I had to listen to From The Flames twice because I wasn't paying close enough attention the first time. I like having Narvin playing such a large part of this story, and it was the old Narvin. The Narvin who kept secrets, whose motivations were based on "the means justify the ends." I'm not much of a fan of the old Gallifrey series, but I did love that Narvin. I can't remember the name of the Time Lord commander off the top of head, but I thought she was an interesting choice for a character. We rarely see Time Lords that jaded and emotional .
The Master's Dalek Plan was fantastic. I spent the first half thinking, "Why? Why is he doing this? I don't understand!" And the comment that Dalek is NOT Kaled backwards cracked me up. I love Jacobi's Master's sense of humor, and pairing that with the destruction he does works so well. And while I agree that you don't have to have any knowledge of Genesis of the Daleks, or of Skaro history to enjoy these stories, knowing the show and having heard I, Davros certainly heightens the enjoyment.
I love that these War Master sets take their time with the Master's plots and plans. In each one we are left in the dark to watch his schemes come together, and this one takes 4 stories, allowing us to watch his plans from beginning to the brutal end. I love how he seems so unsatisfied with the ending, trying to talk himself into enjoying the victory. Why he couldn't figure out how it would all end himself is the question. We KNOW that the Daleks turn on Davros, yet like the latter the Master just can't help putting all his eggs in that basket.
Mark Gatiss was a gem to have in this set. His Master is certainly THE Master, however there was certainly a palpable difference between him and the others we have had in this universe. Maybe it's due to the fact that this Master knows what it's like to live in a Universe that, no matter how many of his plans succeed, is dying. He seems more circumspect, more willing to work for something that, while still self-serving, is not complete and utter destruction for everyone around him.
I really enjoyed the Behind The Scenes as well. Scott Handcock is always able to give us BTS tracks that are different and entertaining. Derek Jacobi seems to thoroughly enjoy his time with Big Finish, and it was interesting to hear Mark Gatiss talk about where BF is as compared to where it started. All in all, this was listening time well spent. I'm glad this isn't the last we are going to hear from these Masters.
{Spoiler} I took that as symptomatic of the Master’s arrogance. He believes that as he is superior to Davros, he wouldn’t make the same mistake. And in fairness to him, the Daleks turned on Davros after a few days whereas his Daleks evidently take years/centuries to begin to question him. I think conflict was inevitable, but either side could have won. We saw a vision of what would happen if the Daleks won, but we also saw what would happen if the Master won - he would end up where Gatiss was at the start of episode 3. Either way the Master's entire scheme was ultimately a lose-lose for him.
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Post by number13 on Dec 31, 2019 0:42:03 GMT
I loved this set. Then on second listen I loved it even more! Of course it has lots of fan-pleasing references (each one gets a bonus point as far as I'm concerned!) but they were well done because if you didn't know the references you probably wouldn't have noticed that any reference was being made: fun for long-time fans, not an obstacle even if this is your first meeting with either (utterly, totally brilliant) Master.
I could write loads more but I won't because Timelord said it perfectly upthread. "dark,twisted, ingenious" - a stunning end to the series but hopefully NOT the end for him even though we already know where his story went next.
Big Finish, look into my eyes: We want the War Master and you will obey us...
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 31, 2019 8:12:25 GMT
I loved this set. Then on second listen I loved it even more! Of course it has lots of fan-pleasing references (each one gets a bonus point as far as I'm concerned!) but they were well done because if you didn't know the references you probably wouldn't have noticed that any reference was being made: fun for long-time fans, not an obstacle even if this is your first meeting with either (utterly, totally brilliant) Master.
I could write loads more but I won't because Timelord said it perfectly upthread. "dark,twisted, ingenious" - a stunning end to the series but hopefully NOT the end for him even though we already know where his story went next.
Big Finish, look into my eyes: We want the War Master and you will obey us... Loved it from start to finish, i really hope BF announce more War Master stories, for me Sir Derek is up there with Delgado as one of the best actor's to have played the part & clearly enjoying revelling in the characters evilness.
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Post by mrperson on Jan 4, 2020 1:01:04 GMT
Wow.
Now that is original as far as a solutions go re: The Master. Hat's off. Hat's off...
....and for a moment there I thought he'd land in the Land of Fiction. You know when. I guess not. But that was wonderful. And Jacobi? There's a reason he's one of my very favorite actors.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 17:14:15 GMT
Well i really enjoyed this entire run of stories i was going to alternate between the River 7 release but once i started i had to finish . Twisted and Dark and when the Gattis Master shows up its just brilliant between his and the Jacobi version.I will now be able to read the above lol as i have a few questions of my own regarding Gattis and his exit and a few other characters which no doubt will need clearing up for me to rate it higher in the War Master series of sets. But enjoyable all the same
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Post by mrperson on Jan 10, 2020 19:24:38 GMT
And I really don't understand hating the set or liking it so little one doesn't even finish it, but each to his own I guess....
Right off the top of my head, I can only think of a few things I started and didn't finish. First was a book about the history of the 1st Amd in wartime and while I love histories, it was so dreadfully written that I couldn't manage another 600 pages. It was worse than reading a textbook.
Then there was Star War Ep. 2, which I walked out of (not out of a theatre, out of a living room). Ditto for the first "The Hobbit".
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Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2020 21:25:03 GMT
And I really don't understand hating the set or liking it so little one doesn't even finish it, but each to his own I guess.... Right off the top of my head, I can only think of a few things I started and didn't finish. First was a book about the history of the 1st in wartime and while I love histories, it was so dreadfully written that I couldn't manage another 600 pages. It was worse than reading a textbook. Then there was Star War Ep. 2, which I walked out of (not out of a theatre, out of a living room). Ditto for the first "The Hobbit". I was same one book I tried to finish can’t even remember the name some meant to be hotshot writer of scifi but bored the tits off me with him trying to be cleverer maybe he is clever and am a dumb ass - Wolfe(goes to google -) yep Gene Wolfe. But most times I will try to finish something just so I can give it an honest that was crap critique.😎🤪
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