lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 22, 2020 9:20:34 GMT
Thinking about this, surely it should have been obvious to the War Master that his plan was always going to go pear-shaped in one way or another? Either he creates a universe-destroying paradox, or the Daleks turn on their creator or something else goes wrong. In may ways this is more like the kind of mad caper the Meddling Monk would get up to than something the Master would do. Now please don't get me wrong - I enjoyed it immensely, it was very good and I loved hearing more of Kisgart's Master, but maybe the box set would have worked better and made more sense in terms of character if the War Master's function in the story had been taken by the Monk instead and the Alternate Master's function had been taken by the War Master?
Just an idle thought ...
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Post by number13 on Jan 22, 2020 11:57:35 GMT
Thinking about this, surely it should have been obvious to the War Master that his plan was always going to go pear-shaped in one way or another? Either he creates a universe-destroying paradox, or the Daleks turn on their creator or something else goes wrong. In may ways this is more like the kind of mad caper the Meddling Monk would get up to than something the Master would do. Now please don't get me wrong - I enjoyed it immensely, it was very good and I loved hearing more of Kisgart's Master, but maybe the box set would have worked better and made more sense in terms of character if the War Master's function in the story had been taken by the Monk instead and the Alternate Master's function had been taken by the War Master?
Just an idle thought ... Being logical, yes. But this is the Master we're talking about - evil genius but much more than half bonkers.
Lots of his plans don't make any sense right back to the Third Doctor's era - the first time we met him he summoned the Nestenes and right at the end of the story suddenly realised that the Doctor was right - they wouldn't see him as any different or less expendable than anyone else on Earth. Or in 'Colony in Space' - the weapon poisoned a world and clearly if he stayed around it, in time it would poison him, but did he think of that? Blinded by the lust for power, every time.
He was willing to risk the end of the world by raising Azal - supremely confident that the Daemon would pass on his powers to him. Never dreaming that an alien scientist might choose the Doctor ahead of him... And in 'The Mind of Evil', if he had brought about WWIII as he tried to do in two different ways, what would have been the point? Ruler of the ashes all on his own? IF he'd survived, that is. He didn't have his head filled with the sound of drums back in the classic era (that we knew about) but he was quite obviously completely mad. (And tbf the Doctor did point this out to him quite a few times!)
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,786
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Post by lidar2 on Jan 22, 2020 12:19:09 GMT
Thinking about this, surely it should have been obvious to the War Master that his plan was always going to go pear-shaped in one way or another? Either he creates a universe-destroying paradox, or the Daleks turn on their creator or something else goes wrong. In may ways this is more like the kind of mad caper the Meddling Monk would get up to than something the Master would do. Now please don't get me wrong - I enjoyed it immensely, it was very good and I loved hearing more of Kisgart's Master, but maybe the box set would have worked better and made more sense in terms of character if the War Master's function in the story had been taken by the Monk instead and the Alternate Master's function had been taken by the War Master?
Just an idle thought ... Being logical, yes. But this is the Master we're talking about - evil genius but much more than half bonkers.
Lots of his plans don't make any sense right back to the Third Doctor's era - the first time we met him he summoned the Nestenes and right at the end of the story suddenly realised that the Doctor was right - they wouldn't see him as any different or less expendable than anyone else on Earth. Or in 'Colony in Space' - the weapon poisoned a world and clearly if he stayed around it, in time it would poison him, but did he think of that? Blinded by the lust for power, every time.
He was willing to risk the end of the world by raising Azal - supremely confident that the Daemon would pass on his powers to him. Never dreaming that an alien scientist might choose the Doctor ahead of him... And in 'The Mind of Evil', if he had brought about WWIII as he tried to do in two different ways, what would have been the point? Ruler of the ashes all on his own? IF he'd survived, that is. He didn't have his head filled with the sound of drums back in the classic era (that we knew about) but he was quite obviously completely mad. (And tbf the Doctor did point this out to him quite a few times!)
All very true, but the scheme in War Master 4 still seems to me more like something the Monk would do ...
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Post by number13 on Jan 22, 2020 12:33:21 GMT
Being logical, yes. But this is the Master we're talking about - evil genius but much more than half bonkers.
Lots of his plans don't make any sense right back to the Third Doctor's era - the first time we met him he summoned the Nestenes and right at the end of the story suddenly realised that the Doctor was right - they wouldn't see him as any different or less expendable than anyone else on Earth. Or in 'Colony in Space' - the weapon poisoned a world and clearly if he stayed around it, in time it would poison him, but did he think of that? Blinded by the lust for power, every time.
He was willing to risk the end of the world by raising Azal - supremely confident that the Daemon would pass on his powers to him. Never dreaming that an alien scientist might choose the Doctor ahead of him... And in 'The Mind of Evil', if he had brought about WWIII as he tried to do in two different ways, what would have been the point? Ruler of the ashes all on his own? IF he'd survived, that is. He didn't have his head filled with the sound of drums back in the classic era (that we knew about) but he was quite obviously completely mad. (And tbf the Doctor did point this out to him quite a few times!)
All very true, but the scheme in War Master 4 still seems to me more like something the Monk would do ... But the Monk isn't really evil (or shouldn't be written as evil imo.) He's a meddler of course who couldn't care less what he does to the timelines so long as it "works", so that part of the plan yes, I could see as his style. Taking over the Universe isn't really his thing though - tampering with an event here, a coincidence there in the name of helping things turn out "better" (as he sees it) and getting his hands on some loot in the process, that's the Monk's game. And getting his revenge on the Doctor for those past defeats, naturally.
I really can't see him wanting to fill the Universe with killer Daleks with him as their leader. Wanting to change history to make all the Daleks into mobile 'one-arm bandit' slot machines to rake in money from punters across the Universe would be more his style.
('How could even the Doctor object to this little scheme? Daleks don't kill people anymore and *Monk giggling chuckle* I get mega-mega-rich. Win-Win! Pity about Davros, I suppose. That roof must have hurt a bit but never mind! All in a good cause!' )
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Post by Ian McArdell on Jan 23, 2020 10:44:05 GMT
That's my take on Anti-Genesis landed at CultBox - "... a bravura performance from Derek Jacobi throughout."
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,075
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Post by mbt66 on Feb 16, 2020 11:35:50 GMT
As is so often the case I am late to the party....and what a darkly delightful party it is.
I have now read this thread and thank you to those who have tried to explain away Narvin’s characterisation and more eloquently than I can put into words just how good this release was. For me this is the best of the four and provides the perfect excuse to start Only the Good again.
Now just a few random thoughts I loved the Anti-Genesis codes giving the Master immunity to all the chaos around him. As others have said I wanted a better resolution for the character of Lamarius. I thought Crazlus was a wonderful addition and would like to hear more of him with the Master However the character that lifted this set to another level and who I really, really want to hear more of is the Mark Gatiss Master.
Is the Mark Gatiss Master as good in the unbound releases, as he is in this?
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Post by sherlock on Feb 16, 2020 11:38:58 GMT
As is so often the case I am late to the party....and what a darkly delightful party it is. I have now read this thread and thank you to those who have tried to explain away Narvin’s characterisation and more eloquently than I can put into words just how good this release was. For me this is the best of the four and provides the perfect excuse to start Only the Good again. Now just a few random thoughts I loved the Anti-Genesis codes giving the Master immunity to all the chaos around him. As others have said I wanted a better resolution for the character of Lamarius. I thought Crazlus was a wonderful addition and would like to hear more of him with the Master However the character that lifted this set to another level and who I really, really want to hear more of is the Mark Gatiss Master. Is the Mark Gatiss Master as good in the unbound releases, as he is in this?
Yes he is. Highly recommended.
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 16, 2020 11:40:38 GMT
As is so often the case I am late to the party....and what a darkly delightful party it is. I have now read this thread and thank you to those who have tried to explain away Narvin’s characterisation and more eloquently than I can put into words just how good this release was. For me this is the best of the four and provides the perfect excuse to start Only the Good again. Now just a few random thoughts I loved the Anti-Genesis codes giving the Master immunity to all the chaos around him. As others have said I wanted a better resolution for the character of Lamarius. I thought Crazlus was a wonderful addition and would like to hear more of him with the Master However the character that lifted this set to another level and who I really, really want to hear more of is the Mark Gatiss Master. Is the Mark Gatiss Master as good in the unbound releases, as he is in this? I my opinion, this is the best we have seen of the Gatiss Master, yet. Although I already enjoyed him in the Benny sets.
And in the first Unbound, he kind of still finds his feet.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,075
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Post by mbt66 on Feb 16, 2020 11:59:33 GMT
I just had to check if he was included in the Masterful set and was relieved to see that he was.
Sometimes I question the need for another Master (the introduction of Dreyfus comes to mind), but then an actor comes along and plays the part differently...I cannot describe exactly how, but he seemed more playful, but at the same time more grownup than a lot of the other incarnations.
I look forward to hearing more.
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Post by Sir Wearer of Hats on Feb 17, 2020 9:50:53 GMT
Is the Mark Gatiss Master as good in the unbound releases, as he is in this? He’s brilliant in “Sympathy for the Devil”, suave and even polite until his temper boils over and WHAM ranty mode unlocked.
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Feb 28, 2020 21:27:29 GMT
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2020 10:51:10 GMT
Only my second listen to this taking advantage of circumstances but I Love Gattis in this as I loved him in the UNBOUND stories was definitely worth crossing over
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 2, 2020 19:57:52 GMT
Gave this one a relisten over the past couple of days as I felt I was harsh on it before, despite not hating it. My opinion hasn’t really changed, sadly. It’s not bad but it’s clumsily handled by Briggs & Barnes, who just aren’t up to the task. There’s a great concept there, and rather complex, but it just goes untapped on the whole.
The nudge nudge wink wink Genesis of the Daleks references. The poor attempts at comedy. The third episode is basically a 2 minute sequence on screen that’s stretched across to an hour on audio. Lamarius amounting to nothing. The clumsy characterisation of Narvin. It only feels like the second and fourth episodes have any substance.
There’s stuff to like. The War Master is grim throughout and I love his obsession with rewatching the footage of the Doctor getting exterminated. I liked that it leads into Only the Good. I liked putting the Gatiss Master into events. I liked the bigger role for the Time Strategist, who normally just pops in and out when the story requires him.
A different pair of writers, a little refinement and some black comedy would really benefit this set. I’m so glad we’ve got another two volumes of The War Master because the range would’ve ended on a whimper, which would’ve been a shame after three strong sets, especially the first two.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on Jul 2, 2020 20:03:24 GMT
Well seems like I was wise to give up on this range
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Post by shallacatop on Jul 2, 2020 20:15:57 GMT
Well seems like I was wise to give up on this range To be fair, that’s just my opinion. I thought the first and second sets were excellent. Rage of the Time Lords is another good addition, bar the pointless Coney Island Chameleon, but adding in Concealed Weapon from The Diary of River Song 5 elevates the set. Though I think there’s a chance Rage of the Time Lords might not age as well because a lot of the Master & Doctor stuff is exposition, though superbly acted, which is probably going to be more obvious if the upcoming encounter has some substance to it.
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Post by grinch on Jul 2, 2020 20:25:07 GMT
I must admit I did enjoy this one but I too thought the references to Genesis became far too self indulgent after a while. It wasn’t so bad when the Master was doing it but when you have the likes of Lamarius quoting parts verbatim it just became tiresome. Speaking of Lamarius, I honestly thought after this ended that she would make an appearance in future Time War releases but I really doubt that now. Her story doesn’t even so much end as more just shrugs it’s shoulders and walks off. Presumably to be grabbed by a hand mine.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 11:44:44 GMT
It’s not bad but it’s clumsily handled by Briggs & Barnes, who just aren’t up to the task. There’s a great concept there, and rather complex, but it just goes untapped on the whole. The nudge nudge wink wink Genesis of the Daleks references. The poor attempts at comedy. The third episode is basically a 2 minute sequence on screen that’s stretched across to an hour on audio. [...] It only feels like the second and fourth episodes have any substance. Like a lot of these four part box-set releases there's a lot of stretching things out going on. I did like the idea behind this set and it was an enjoyable story, but it did lack substance over the four parts as a whole. This story would easily fit on to two CD's with nothing important lost... It seems BF priorities have gone from just creating good stories to stretching them out to make a box set out of one idea. Just telling the story isn't enough for them anymore. For me, it weakens the overall story. Giving them a free pass as one part is weak in a box set of four is easy for some fans, but why not just keep a story tight and on point? Listening to a story where they are effectively treading water and nothing much is going on just gets dull after a while, and it seems to me that most BF box-sets with four CD's have moments like that. Part three ( Shockwave) was the worst here for me, it seemed it was just a part spun out to fill the alotted time so we could get to the excellent fourth part, He Who Wins. The big positive from this set is Derek Jacobi as the War Master, he's just brilliant and is probably the most evil version of the Master there is, Gatiss is good but only semi-evil compared to Jacobi. I didn't mind the Genesis of the Daleks nods either, in fact spotting them was a fun pastime. It might have taken me a while to catch up on this War Master set but I'm glad I did as the weirdness of the 'what if' secenario (aka The Master's Bonkers Plan #642) was quite an enjoyable listen overall.
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Post by pawntake on Jul 3, 2020 12:03:43 GMT
It’s not bad but it’s clumsily handled by Briggs & Barnes, who just aren’t up to the task. There’s a great concept there, and rather complex, but it just goes untapped on the whole. The nudge nudge wink wink Genesis of the Daleks references. The poor attempts at comedy. The third episode is basically a 2 minute sequence on screen that’s stretched across to an hour on audio. [...] It only feels like the second and fourth episodes have any substance. Like a lot of these four part box-set releases there's a lot of stretching things out going on. I did like the idea behind this set and it was an enjoyable story, but it did lack substance over the four parts as a whole. This story would easily fit on to two CD's with nothing important lost... It seems BF priorities have gone from just creating good stories to stretching them out to make a box set out of one idea. Just telling the story isn't enough for them anymore. For me, it weakens the overall story. Giving them a free pass as one part is weak in a box set of four is easy for some fans, but why not just keep a story tight and on point? Listening to a story where they are effectively treading water and nothing much is going on just gets dull after a while, and it seems to me that most BF box-sets with four CD's have moments like that. Part three ( Shockwave) was the worst here for me, it seemed it was just a part spun out to fill the alotted time so we could get to the excellent fourth part, He Who Wins. Yep!!This stretching things out has become quite annoying!!And exactly my opinion of Galifrey Boxset 3,half of it was just padding!!But! we are gluttons for punishment,and we keep on buying them!!
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Post by Kestrel on Jul 9, 2020 7:49:21 GMT
I finished Anti-Genesis a few days ago. It was fantastic. My expectations for Derek Jacobi's Master could not possibly be any higher... so glad sets 5 and 6 have already been announced.
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Post by nottenst on Jul 13, 2020 19:44:13 GMT
Shockwave and He Who Wins{Spoiler}
Gatiss’ Master was a welcome addition to the mix, however I can’t help but feel him destroying his universe kinda undermines the Warner Doctor’s accomplishments. Also really not sure what happened to him at the end...a random wormhole?
Just finished listening to it, but haven't listened to the interviews yet. I am puzzled a bit by the Gatiss Master. {Spoiler} I thought that at the end of that Unbound series, the Master was set up as the savior of that universe. So, maybe he wasn't escaping that universe but the end of this sends him that universe for the first time?
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