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Post by frisby78 on Jul 25, 2019 23:42:35 GMT
Guilty Although, my point was less these specific scenarios and more that there are a lot of possible knock-on effects that we, on the outside looking in, can't necessarily foresee, that they need to be cautious of. They're certainly possible, but as Simon was saying that one of reputational damage in the creative community seems less likely than, say, the legal repercussions of accusing him of something in public when he's already talking about lawyering up. I'd say that's a more real and present concern. I mean the knock on effects of doing absolutely nothing and giving him more work could cause even worse effects - I think they almost certainly would be worse, in fact. But I think that BF deserve, as we're both agreeing on, a bit more than 24 hours to look into all that kind of stuff and consult who they need to before addressing Dreyfus' situation specifically. Certainly more than 24 hours before people are talking about boycotts or throwing their collections out. Totally agree, if BF stick their head in the sand then people would be right to feel agrieved, but at least giveth a few days to sort it properly. Though I would maybe leave it to JHE who is a tad more, erm, politic than Nick.
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Post by masterdoctor on Jul 25, 2019 23:50:45 GMT
I’ve seen multiple people mentioned Tracy Ann Oberman and Rachel Riley, but no one has given anything beyond that they said something. Any chance you could shine a light on this front? Just Google Rachel Riley and Palestine etc. She's a mentalist. Yeah I’ve seen that, but I still don’t understand the comparison. From what I have seen, both Oberman and Riley have a reasonable opinion regarding the Labour Party and Anti-Semitism? Just because someone disagrees with their stance doesn’t mean they are in the same league as Dreyfuss who is trying to limit basic human rights for certain groups.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 25, 2019 23:54:38 GMT
Just because someone disagrees with their stance doesn’t mean they are in the same league as Dreyfuss who is trying to limit basic human rights for certain groups. Could you please point me to those specific comments?
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Post by subconiandreamer on Jul 26, 2019 0:08:15 GMT
But I think that BF deserve, as we're both agreeing on, a bit more than 24 hours to look into all that kind of stuff and consult who they need to before addressing Dreyfus' situation specifically. Certainly more than 24 hours before people are talking about boycotts or throwing their collections out. This isn't the first time this business has come up. People mentioned their issues with Dreyfus back in March when the 2nd Doctor Early Adventure he's appearing in was announced, too. This isn't "give them a bit more than 24 hours, yeah?", it's been floating around for months. Like I said, I was giving them the benefit of the doubt already following that announcement.
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Post by masterdoctor on Jul 26, 2019 0:10:29 GMT
Could you please point me to those specific comments? The most pertinent to my post is likely this one
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Post by frisby78 on Jul 26, 2019 0:12:20 GMT
Just Google Rachel Riley and Palestine etc. She's a mentalist. Yeah I’ve seen that, but I still don’t understand the comparison. From what I have seen, both Oberman and Riley have a reasonable opinion regarding the Labour Party and Anti-Semitism? Just because someone disagrees with their stance doesn’t mean they are in the same league as Dreyfuss who is trying to limit basic human rights for certain groups. I agree with that. Just that they like him Ave resorted to a form of quasi bulling when anyone has the temerity to question them.
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Post by Ela on Jul 26, 2019 0:14:31 GMT
Could you please point me to those specific comments? The most pertinent to my post is likely this one And what exactly is wrong with that tweet?
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Post by masterdoctor on Jul 26, 2019 0:16:09 GMT
Yeah I’ve seen that, but I still don’t understand the comparison. From what I have seen, both Oberman and Riley have a reasonable opinion regarding the Labour Party and Anti-Semitism? Just because someone disagrees with their stance doesn’t mean they are in the same league as Dreyfuss who is trying to limit basic human rights for certain groups. I agree with that. Just that they like him Ave resorted to a form of quasi bulling when anyone has the temerity to question them. I understand now. Yes, their reactions haven’t been the best, which makes your comparison make sense. I think it comes down to a mix of how you say and what you say, and in this case, while how they say it isn’t great, what they are saying is admirable. This is opposed to Dreyfuss who is saying things of a questionable manner in a questionable way, putting it nicely.
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Post by masterdoctor on Jul 26, 2019 0:18:06 GMT
The most pertinent to my post is likely this one And what exactly is wrong with that tweet? What I’m saying is that there is nothing wrong with it, which was why at first didn’t understand frisby’s comparison. I can’t comment on whether I agree with it or not, as I have no knowledge in the area, but I find nothing questionable about, to the point where I find it a perfectly valid stance, just one I can’t fairly have an opinion on. Sorry for the confusion anyone, no malice intended by my posts
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Post by Ela on Jul 26, 2019 0:19:19 GMT
Yeah I’ve seen that, but I still don’t understand the comparison. From what I have seen, both Oberman and Riley have a reasonable opinion regarding the Labour Party and Anti-Semitism? Just because someone disagrees with their stance doesn’t mean they are in the same league as Dreyfuss who is trying to limit basic human rights for certain groups. I agree with that. Just that they like him Ave resorted to a form of quasi bulling when anyone has the temerity to question them. I don't see Oberman bullying, I see a lot of nastiness aimed at her though. I don't follow Riley, so can't speak to that person's tweets in particular.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 26, 2019 0:20:18 GMT
Could you please point me to those specific comments? The most pertinent to my post is likely this one I was asking to be pointed to the specific comments that Dreyfus has made that have been labeled transphobic. Thanks.
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Post by masterdoctor on Jul 26, 2019 0:25:39 GMT
The most pertinent to my post is likely this one I was asking to be pointed to the specific comments that Dreyfus has made that have been labeled transphobic. Thanks. Okay, but that wasn’t what I was talking about. If someone who has saved them and has them ready, they are free to share them, but I don’t feel like trawling through Dreyfuss’ twitter again to ease the burden of proof that I’m not apart of.
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Post by Ela on Jul 26, 2019 0:36:59 GMT
From what I've seen, Dreyfus seems like a TERF supporter (Trans Exclusionary Radical Feminst).
Note tweets like this one, implying that trans rights impinge on feminist rights, which is a load of baloney:
Also, he doesn't accept trans women as women.
And he doesn't acquit himself well in the way he responds to people tweeting at him, very nasty, lots of name calling, as far as I can tell.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jul 26, 2019 0:49:36 GMT
So at the risk of sounding simple, basically this is in same ballpark as the Martina Navratilova situation and her comments about trans women completing in sports events?
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Post by Ela on Jul 26, 2019 0:57:07 GMT
So at the risk of sounding simple, basically this is in same ballpark as the Martina Navratilova situation and her comments about trans women completing in sports events? I'm not super familiar with that situation, but Navratilova did make some remarks that were transphobic and could fall into the category of TERF. It's my understanding that she apologized, at least in part, but I don't know if she walked back her remarks completely. I think it's a little more complicated and related to varying testosterone levels in women athletes.
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Post by fantasticalice on Jul 26, 2019 1:07:09 GMT
All valid points. Regarding your last point, from what I've heard from friends in the know he's not very popular in the industry. There seems to be a mutual love in with him, Oberman and Rachel Riley, but the latter two opinions are also, shall we say, dubious. Yes - to be fair to Digi though, he's from overseas and may not know where Dreyfus is in terms of the pop culture totem pole. When BF have got legit British TV superstars like Derek Jacobi and Nicola Walker, not to mention David Tennant, on their books regularly...I don't think Dreyfus - an actor who's two biggest roles were supporting ones in low budget sitcoms 20-25 years ago - is going to have much pull or sway in anything but his very closest circles. It wouldn't make headlines, in anything but the cultiest of cult outlets to be blunt and even if it did, I think the public would condemn him for his words before sympathizing because they liked him with Rowan Atkinson 25 years ago. I'd imagine an absolutely huge percentage of the creatives BF would want to employ would look at what he's said with disdain anyway far from sympathise with him and look twice at working with BF. It's not as though he would have been let go flippantly or for some minor misunderstanding blown up. Quite the opposite, I'd imagine more would look twice at working with BF if they kept him on - exactly as happened with Gareth Roberts where BBC Books had more than one person threaten to withdraw their work if he was kept on, and even Who royalty in Paul Cornell condemning his words too. Also, after James made a big sh@#show of it on his twitter a bunch of really nasty people flooded the Announcement thread with angry repugnant crap that is far more aggressive than stuff idiot James has directly said. I'm not giving him an excuse either but BF DOES hire and write about transpeople. And now James has blatantly drawn a line in the sand to make trans, allies, intersex, etc really uncomfortable and unsafe. Like seriously mate, sending the worst of your transphobic supporters to write nasty aggressive transphobic crap in your employer's thread is really dumb. "Hello employer, I am trying to act like my views are not as bad as everyone says but Because of ME reacting aggressively to criticism my fans are now descending on your page to write very nasty and aggressive hurtful things about your previous and future cast and crew. I am making it obvious that instead of getting criticism for releases involving me your page will now be littered with flat out transphobic nastiness and hate speech" In all honesty the bullcrap written by his followers in that thread is worse than I saw in similar threads from GR supporters. And I previously would have said GR was far worse than James Dreyfus. But damn, none of his 'supporters' are really standing up for him they are just posting really hurtful vile transphobic nastiness which if I was BF would see as a huge problem because of their policies. IE James Dreyfus has now made his presence a hostile situation for transpeople. And there's a huge difference between opening a thread and finding out an actor is transphobic and seeing some of the tweets that demonstrate that to seeing aggressive and graphic transphobia. To make a comparison it would be like if Bf announce a release starring someone who a day later made racist comments and then finding the announcement full of people using the N word and attacking POC. Or "Hi I JamesD am trying to argue that I am not transphobic and am misrepresenting the freelance nature of my job by using the word 'fired' but I did just send a swathe of rabid transphobes to invade the thread announcing something I recorded with you" It reminds me of when I went off on a antigay politician who acted like I was a horrible person and then had his followers chase me and my followers and the people I follow all over twitter calling me a k@#$ and posting some really nasty transphobic stuff because I have pronouns in my bio. When your followers are clearly the worst of the worst and you have sent them after people you disagree with you can't claim you are civil and decent. It's a dirty nasty chain of hatred. Everyone with a repugnant view knows someone who holds that view more aggressively. or simply person 1"I think transwomen have issues" person 2 "Transwomen are fakes" "Transwoman are making restrooms unsafe" "Transwomen are ......" "Tra@@#$ are ..." "T.. should be" "they should kill themselves" "We should do that for them" Bigoted views do not exist in a vacuum. When someone says on a huge platform a LGBTQIA person is evil and will burn in hell there will be someone along that chain that is happy to send them there. At this point Dreyfus is just as bad as GR and has now sent swathes of aggressive transphobes into a thread about his performance. He has flat out damaged his chances of getting hired in many more places than BF. Even people who might agree with him won't want a flood of comments like "If you are a man with (graphic description of male genitalia) in a frock you are a man in a frock. If you cut them off you are a man who cut them off in a frock" There are other smaller audio companies than Big Finish that wont touch him with an 8 foot pole because they dont want to have say "Pride and Prejudice a 6 hour full cast adaptation" being flooded with graphic comments attacking people that they may work with or have as customers. I still hope that my retweets and screenshots of the abuse I got for calling out an antigay politician shows who his base are. But flat out if you want to pretend you are on some ethical high road maybe don't send aggressive transphobes to flood your employer's page eh?
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Post by Hieronymus on Jul 26, 2019 3:14:44 GMT
At times like this, I feel as though the Internet is modern incarnation of The Picture of Dorian Gray, making visible the worst part of human souls.
At least Dorian kept his portrait under lock and key.
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Post by fantasticalice on Jul 26, 2019 5:29:45 GMT
Oh by the way, although Elliot Chapman has a restricted twitter for followers only El Sandifer posted one of two wonderful things I have seen since this exploded. The first was John Dorney immediately RTing a wonderful pro Trans video expalining in detail about identification and documents by MP Mhairi Black
Its a great wee video.
And the other thing that really made my day was Elliot Chapman is donating his entire fee for The Home Guard(another Dreyfus release) to Mermaids, a lovely charity that helps trans and genderrific kids when HG is released.
Both made my day but Elliot's post almost had me in tears.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jul 26, 2019 6:56:16 GMT
Very surprised about this, James Dreyfus is a gay man & must surely have experienced homophobia at some point in his life so his bigotry views on Transgender is quite shocking.
Such a shame, I've experienced attacks for having bipolar so i sympathise with all those who he has offended because nobody likes being singled out as being different.
The only person to suffer in the long run though is Dreyfus because his comments will no doubt get around & affect future hirings for him in acting roles on tv or audio.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2019 7:49:16 GMT
What a repugnant man this Dreyfus person is.
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