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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 24, 2020 13:06:40 GMT
I'm a bit surprised by some of the reaction to this set, but I enjoyed it very much, Sixie and Peri doing their usual thing, saving people and worlds as best they can, sparring and joking a bit along the way and definitely a team. What also surprised me (and maybe this is what disappointed some other listeners) is that the set didn't do anything really "new" with their friendship despite being set after Peri's time as Queen of Krontep (except Peri is a lot more confident than very early Peri was, and that's just as it should be.) I too had expected that the set would 'break new ground' (presumably because of some publicity comments, though I don't remember what - it might have been us fans speculating!) But while listening I realised that I hadn't really wanted it to do that anyway and this was what I wanted! I wasn't in the mood for angst and recriminations and reassessments, I wanted some 80s-style adventures with Sixie and Peri and hopefully a few laughs along the way, and that's exactly what I got. One story was OK (but very obvious villain imo), one was timey-wimey and complicated (and a good story I enjoyed) and two are clever and lots of fun! Hope you enjoy it as much as I did.  Very well put! I wonder if people did build up false expectations about this somewhat? Personally I very much enjoyed the idea that things are able to return to normal for The Sixth Doctor and Peri as a testament to the nature and strength of their relationship rather than perhaps taking more of a New Series approach. Maybe those things were already touched on somewhat in the Monthly Range? Anyway, things mostly felt very true to the Sixth Doctor's TV era and I don't know what's wrong with that. It guess it reminds me somewhat of the Judoon story from CDNM - we get the most wonderful character development but given the limited time frame it comes at the price of sort of a Deus ex Machina in some of the characters being almost absurdly prosaic about where they've ended up. I tend to want to be critical of that but to be honest, could things have worked out any better than they did in Judoon in Chains? I also wonder if some of the story criticisms are entirely fair? Sure, not hard to guess the bad ones in The Headless Ones. It might have gone on longer and built up more diversion about who the bad apples were, but in the context of c.a. an hour, something important might have had to be sacrificed for the sake of that. It is a historical, and it strikes me that there may be a certain lack of suspense with historicals - we may already know how they turn out but the really interesting parts are how they get from point a to point b and how The Doctor manages to be involved in events exactly. Sometimes they introduce us to interesting things from history and I think that certainly happened here. With Conflict Theory, I think things are similar because to a certain degree you know how things will likely turn out and there's even a certain amount of surrealism that might keep things from being taken too seriously, but the suspenseful part seems again how things get from one point to another and at what point all the cards will come out on the table and whether things could backfire. I think it's interesting though that Nev Fountain seems to have managed as much as seems possible to bring back that edgy, unpredictable Doctor for a moment that he was at first meeting but in a much more flattering context overall. I haven't heard the other two yet but I think the main criticism I see of The Vanity Trap is that it borrows from other stories, and I think that happens sometimes and isn't necessarily a bad thing of itself. |
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Post by shallacatop on Aug 24, 2020 14:33:39 GMT
I'm a bit surprised by some of the reaction to this set, but I enjoyed it very much, Sixie and Peri doing their usual thing, saving people and worlds as best they can, sparring and joking a bit along the way and definitely a team. What also surprised me (and maybe this is what disappointed some other listeners) is that the set didn't do anything really "new" with their friendship despite being set after Peri's time as Queen of Krontep (except Peri is a lot more confident than very early Peri was, and that's just as it should be.) I too had expected that the set would 'break new ground' (presumably because of some publicity comments, though I don't remember what - it might have been us fans speculating!) But while listening I realised that I hadn't really wanted it to do that anyway and this was what I wanted! I wasn't in the mood for angst and recriminations and reassessments, I wanted some 80s-style adventures with Sixie and Peri and hopefully a few laughs along the way, and that's exactly what I got. One story was OK (but very obvious villain imo), one was timey-wimey and complicated (and a good story I enjoyed) and two are clever and lots of fun! Hope you enjoy it as much as I did. Very well put! I wonder if people did build up false expectations about this somewhat? Personally I very much enjoyed the idea that things are able to return to normal for The Sixth Doctor and Peri as a testament to the nature and strength of their relationship rather than perhaps taking more of a New Series approach. Maybe those things were already touched on somewhat in the Monthly Range? Anyway, things mostly felt very true to the Sixth Doctor's TV era and I don't know what's wrong with that. It guess it reminds me somewhat of the Judoon story from CDNM - we get the most wonderful character development but given the limited time frame it comes at the price of sort of a Deus ex Machina in some of the characters being almost absurdly prosaic about where they've ended up. I tend to want to be critical of that but to be honest, could things have worked out any better than they did in Judoon in Chains? I also wonder if some of the story criticisms are entirely fair? Sure, not hard to guess the bad ones in The Headless Ones. It might have gone on longer and built up more diversion about who the bad apples were, but in the context of c.a. an hour, something important might have had to be sacrificed for the sake of that. It is a historical, and it strikes me that there may be a certain lack of suspense with historicals - we may already know how they turn out but the really interesting parts are how they get from point a to point b and how The Doctor manages to be involved in events exactly. Sometimes they introduce us to interesting things from history and I think that certainly happened here. With Conflict Theory, I think things are similar because to a certain degree you know how things will likely turn out and there's even a certain amount of surrealism that might keep things from being taken too seriously, but the suspenseful part seems again how things get from one point to another and at what point all the cards will come out on the table and whether things could backfire. I think it's interesting though that Nev Fountain seems to have managed as much as seems possible to bring back that edgy, unpredictable Doctor for a moment that he was at first meeting but in a much more flattering context overall. I haven't heard the other two yet but I think the main criticism I see of The Vanity Trap is that it borrows from other stories, and I think that happens sometimes and isn't necessarily a bad thing of itself. I'm not really sure why it would be a false expectation. It was labelled as being post-Trial of a Time Lord for the pair of them, so you'd like to think there would be something different in store, otherwise what would be the point? You might be happy with them going back to normal, that's absolutely fine, but I don't think it's fair to say it's a false expectation that's been set up. Story criticisms are perfectly valid if that's what someone feels about them. If you are commissioned to write a 60 minute story, then you should have a story that's appropriate for that. Your talk of "something important might have had to be sacrificed for the sake of that" implies these were originally 4x25 minute stories (other formats are available) but were condensed to 60 minutes, but I don't think we've been told that was the case, so I don't really see the point in speculating as an excuse for the criticisms aimed at the stories. People have voiced their opinions on the stories, both good, bad and indifferent, and I think that's the top and bottom of it. For example, nobody's saying that borrowing from other stories is a bad thing, just that it wasn't great in the case of The Vanity Trap because it's rather a niche type of story, so to hear it twice recently isn't great, especially if you think The Vanity Trap is the weaker example. I do understand where you're going with your post, but it does come across as making excuses on Big Finish's behalf, when I don't think it's needed. If different people have different views then that's absolutely fine, and par for the course, but there doesn't need to be reasoning as to why people may be unfair in their thoughts. I personally might have been a little warmer if they actually utilised the post-Trial gap they created. There might have been a different dynamic posed in the Doctor & Peri's relationship that I found interesting and made up for a lacking story. As it stands, they didn't and it's just another criticism on top of the indifference I felt to the stories. |
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Post by barnabaslives on Aug 24, 2020 16:40:13 GMT
I'm not really sure why it would be a false expectation. It was labelled as being post-Trial of a Time Lord for the pair of them, so you'd like to think there would be something different in store, otherwise what would be the point? You might be happy with them going back to normal, that's absolutely fine, but I don't think it's fair to say it's a false expectation that's been set up. Story criticisms are perfectly valid if that's what someone feels about them. If you are commissioned to write a 60 minute story, then you should have a story that's appropriate for that. Your talk of "something important might have had to be sacrificed for the sake of that" implies these were originally 4x25 minute stories (other formats are available) but were condensed to 60 minutes, but I don't think we've been told that was the case, so I don't really see the point in speculating as an excuse for the criticisms aimed at the stories. People have voiced their opinions on the stories, both good, bad and indifferent, and I think that's the top and bottom of it. I probably didn't articulate that very well. Certainly people are entitled to their opinions! That's what opinions are for, lol. I was just wondering though if maybe what we have are really common criticisms that the stories are too short. Given another half-hour or hour, they certainly could have done more with the post-Trial placement. I wasn't really meaning that the stories had been condensed, just that the hour format may have some limitations (and that even certain types of stories may have inherent limitations, although I may not really be on-point with that here). I did very much enjoy both the stories I've heard so far, though, and I just hope that on reflection others may find more enjoyment in them also. Maybe later listens will prove more rewarding? |
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Post by Kestrel on Aug 25, 2020 13:48:29 GMT
Okay, I've finally finished the set! And I've gotta say, my most immediate reaction is... that I might just pay money just for a box set of Colin Baker chatting about random things. The man is a delight and his behind-the-scenes chatter was the highlight of the set for me. I always feel bad when he references the troubles with the TV show during his tenure, and continue to be thankful he got a happy ending. There are always debates about who "the best" Doctor is, and always will be, but for me--thanks entirely to Big Finish--Colin Baker will always be near the top. Which is largely why I found myself disappointed in this set. I can't say any of the stories were bad (they weren't) but none quite reached the level of, "great," which is, frankly, what I expect from 6th Doctor stories. It is an acceptable but unremarkable beginning to the 6DA range. And I think a lot of,that has to do with Peri. I don't think she's a very interesting character, I don't think she has good chemistry with the Doctor, and I find her accent to be grating. Evidently it's supposed to be a Baltimore accent? Oof. So, anyway, some more specific thoughts: - "Like" was better than I expected, but still reeked of, "old people writing about social media they don't understand and are frightened by." None of it really rang true, and it seems like the writers conflated two separate ideas: the notion that negativity drives engagement better than positivity and that people are obsessed with getting "likes." What makes something like Twitter work, as a platform, is that is rewards users, it doesn't punish them. You feel a pleasant rush of dopamine when you get a like; the opposite effect is simply the absence of that pleasant sensation. This planet's whole social media fixation would have been a lot more interesting, accurate and socially relevant if instead of dislikes producing physical pain through the implant, likes produced something akin to euphoria.
- Which would actually make the dilemma a dilemma: it's not difficult to convince a person to stop doing something harmful to the, that is also producing physical pain; it is quite another to stop doing something harmful that is also pleasurable. They could've explored a society where social media serves as a kind of narcotic, producing a physical dependency, with the top "influencers" cast as desperate addicts and the people who maintain and profit from the system as dealers.
- Instead, ultimately, the resolution to "Like" -- where Peri uses her social media clout to effectively combat the villains' bad social media clout came across as trite deliberately blunted. One more in a long line of Doctor Who stories that desperately wants to comment on something socially relevant without having the courage to actually say something one way or the other. Yeesh.
- The best moments came from the final story, I think. Robots are always fun, as is casual psychoanalysis. It was nice to delve into the Doctor'S psychology and explore why he chooses the companions he does, even if said exploration ca,e across mostly as lampshading, and the aliens were generally amusing--though it was a bit eyebrow-raising to see Peri escape from the aliens by mocking her captor's weight. Fat-shaming aliens, really? They couldn't have picked something, anything else to debut the insecurity-attacks on? Oh well.
- Overall I found it enjoyable, but part of why I still think it falls into the unremarkable category is that, despite focusing so much time on examining the Doctor and Peri's relationship and psychology, we didn't really learn anything about either of them. And while it's always fun to see Colin Baker playing up the unreliable narrator, that "twist," such as it was, was extremely obvious.
- I can't believe they got "eat a dick" into the last story. Not that they didn't self-censor, but rather that they'd do something so juvenile.
So... it was fine. I don't regret buying this set, but at the same time I doubt I'll ever recommend it to anyone, either. My main hope for the future at this point is simply that the 6DA range changes things up from set to set, so we're not stuck with Peri all the time. I get what you are saying about Six and Peri, she's not my favorite either. There are a few audios that redeem her. Go ahead and listen to The Reaping, Peri and the Piscon Paradox in the Companion Chronicles Range and The Widow's Assassin. They are great and really open up and give depth to Peri's character. And then there are her adventures with Five and Erimem. Most of those are terrific. They're all on my list! Erimem piqued my interest so I've picked up her first two audios, I'm not sure how many she has in total, and I quite enjoyed the first. I tend to enjoy historical more than most, particularly those set in ancient history. Though I can't say I heard anything to change my opinion of Peri.... Regarding, "The Widow's Assassin," I'm a bit confused. In the BTS stuff of 6DA:1, Baker reference it as the "proper" regeneration story for the 6th Doctor, but it was my understanding that the "proper" 6th Doctor Regeneration story was in the, The Last Adventure," boxset. Did Baker misspeak or am I mistaken, or do the two somehow link together? ive already got, "The Last Adventure," in my library (I think I got it when it was on sale this summer) but have been waiting to listen to it until I've heard more of the 7th Doctor's monthly range titles. At one point I was told that the only "prerequisites" for it were the 6/Charley MR stories. |
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Post by tuigirl on Aug 25, 2020 18:52:43 GMT
Okay, I've finally finished the set! And I've gotta say, my most immediate reaction is... that I might just pay money just for a box set of Colin Baker chatting about random things. The man is a delight and his behind-the-scenes chatter was the highlight of the set for me. Well, not sure if you are aware, but BF did just that. "This is Colin Baker".
2,5 hours of Colin telling the story of his life. It is brilliant. I could listen to the man all day.
Totally worth it.
I love the man to bits and I actually find the audio commentary to his TV stories more entertaining than most of the actual episodes....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2020 4:06:53 GMT
Welp, I've listened to the first story, at least. It was fine. But when did Peri become a Queen? My expectations for #2 are pretty low as this is a very tired premise that has never been handled well IMO, but Colin Baker can elevate pretty much anything. And I gotta say, my opinion of Peri remains somewhat low... really hope future 6DA sets change things up a bit with different companions. I'd love a set with DI Menzies, for example. But mostly I suppose I'm sore tha. Six had such a perfect companion in Evelyn and no one else, least of all Peri' comes close to measuring up to that. I get what you are saying about Six and Peri, she's not my favorite either. There are a few audios that redeem her. Go ahead and listen to The Reaping, Peri and the Piscon Paradox in the Companion Chronicles Range and The Widow's Assassin. They are great and really open up and give depth to Peri's character. And then there are her adventures with Five and Erimem. Most of those are terrific. Ooh, can I also add to the Peri Primer?  Peri, unfortunately, had a pretty rough run on television like the Sixth Doctor. She's great in her debut story ("I am the Master!" "S-So what? I'm Perpugilliam Brown and I can shout just as loud as you can!"), but following Androzani, she was often rendered the damoiselle in distress. On audio, she's written to be much more proactive, engaging, and it's where I gained a fondness for the character. In her stories with the Fifth Doctor and Erimem, you actually get to see her slowly grow up, especially in stories like The Eye of the Scorpion, The Church and the Crown, The Council of Nicaea, Son of the Dragon or The Bride of Peladon. Once you get to the Sixth Doctor's era, a lot of Big Finish's output taps into that natural chemistry between Colin Baker and Nicola Bryant. They've a sense of banter that turns up in a lot of their later stories. Paradise 5 is another story from that era -- alongside The Reaping, Peri and the Piscon Paradox and The Widow's Assassin -- that I'd recommend for fleshing out her character (plus, bonus Alex Macqueen as the villainous Gabriel). Leviathan addresses her torture in Vengeance on Varos and puts her directly in charge of a rebellion. Memories of a Tyrant circumspectly speaks to the hole left in her life by her birth father (and initially shows a gentler side to Sixie). The others... Well, they don't do anything with her background specifically, but are just really fun stories. On their own merits and for the banter between Six and Peri -- Point of Entry, The Song of Megaptera and The First Sontarans. |
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Post by project37 on Sept 13, 2020 15:26:40 GMT
Halfway through and it's been an interesting listening experience so far. I haven't really listened to any Sixth Doctor stories for a long time, so I was a bit confused at first by Peri's references to her life with Yrcanos. I was pretty indifferent to the new continuity that she resumed traveling afterward, but at least welcomed the notion that The Headless Ones attempted to do something with it. I thought the script format was interesting - using the journal entries helped move the plot forward by a few leaps every so often and the story itself didn't overstay its welcome. I'm all for self-contained storytelling.
I really enjoyed Like at first even though I can appreciate that it's not exactly subtle. As I was listening to it, I thought it would be fun to share with my 9 and 13 year old kids. They both enjoy YouTube but it's unsettling to see that they focus on the number of "likes" under a video as a detail they need to share when talking about it. I continue to have conversations with them about quality vs. quantity and keeping perspective when it comes to the ultimate meaningless of social media.
But then the ending happened and it really rubbed me the wrong way. In fact, I'm actually angry about it.
The Doctor and Peri solve the refugee crisis by reducing them to simple-minded comedy relief characters for the amusement of a world that otherwise hated and feared them. It brought to mind the shameful treatment of Black people and other minorities in our own entertainment media history. "Let's laugh at those that are different from us so that we can tell ourselves that we're smarter and better." The Doctor's friend sadly says that it was humiliating to perform the sketches with Peri, but the Doctor callously waves it off as a "foot in the door" and the idealistic rebels say "no problem, we'll change hearts and minds before you know it." Oh really? It's that easy, huh? I know it's science fiction and it was written/recorded a few years ago before the world was more open to these conversations and people stopped to actually consider other perspectives and life experiences with a modicum of respect, but in 2020 this struck me as incredibly thoughtless and offensive.
I need a few days to "reset" and will hopefully continue listening later this week. I have no interest in revisiting that particular story ever again, though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 13, 2020 16:59:57 GMT
It wasn’t an exceptional set of stories which I kind of expected especially for a Box set and did anything really stick with me where I went must relisten to that fast...recent Bernice almost instant .Given I love Peri and six I wanted something post trial more than standard fare...but later listens will perhaps allow me a mellowing and am all for the post Trial Peri
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 20, 2020 13:57:11 GMT
Finally felt up to the challenge and started on this set.
The Headless Ones- I thought this was an enjoyable little classic story.
I like exploration stories, and the expedition into the jungle to search for a lost tribe was an interesting setting. As a kid I loved the old Tarzan movies, and all this needed was an elephant graveyard and the Doctor swinging yodeling from some vines.  It was fine, I do not find a lot to critizise about it. Also, Sixie and Peri were great, but that is basically their go to position.
Like- this was always going to be compared to that episode of the Orville which basically has completely the same plot. Both are quite heavy handed and on the nose. I already disliked that in the Orville episode. There is no subtlety there, and the story cruises along without much elegance. In direct comparison, juvenile humour aside, the Orville is going to win out here, though. Both require severe suspension of disbelief, but the Orville story just does it a tad better.
So, halfway through, this is not as bad as I feared, seeing the mixed reviews.
It is, however, also not the great Sixie celebration I was hoping for. They did a much better job in this years monthly range.
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Post by tuigirl on Sept 20, 2020 19:59:29 GMT
And I finished the set!
Well, this was not half bad!
Vanity trap-
this was a fun story, with some nice timey-whimey elements. The story itself did remind me of another story, but for the life of me cannot remember which.
I thought the diva character and the resolution of the story was quite clever, however, I did not really quite follow what the physician "villain" was doing exactly and how that gadget was supposed to work. Still, I enjoyed myself.
Conflict Theory-
I liked this.
I thought it was a great and fun story, even when making fun of therapists who are really full of themselves.
I personally did not think it was having a go at people with mental illness or at taking therapy sessions (which helped me a lot during my life, but I admit I have met a few therapists in my life who were very full of themselves and were sprouting unhelpful rubbish. So I totally get where the author is coming from).
Story and solution were clever, and both Peri and the Doctor get their moments to shine and to be heroic.
What a far cry from the TV series!
It also tries to go a bit deeper concerning their relationships and (partially) succeeds there.
I also did not mind the supposedly juvenile joke. But then I like the Orville, so I am kind of taking it in my stride.
So, all in all, I did like this set.
It was certainly not the disappointment I feared, however, it was also not the best box set BF has ever done, not even among the best this year- but I am afraid that not much will get close to the amazing performance of Terry Molloy as Davros in the latest Time War set or the amazing clever stories in the latest Benny set.
Still, good effort.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 17:09:32 GMT
What a dreadful set, 'The Headless Ones', was OK, 'Like', was one of the worst audios I've ever heard, 'Vanity Trap', I have no idea what all that nonsense was about and the 'Conflict Theory', well I just can't finish that one !
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2020 19:41:35 GMT
I would not say Dreadful...I would say just not every memorable considering it was a box set....I maybe had too an expectation of it....and as such I cannot even remember very much about it at all now
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Post by grinch on Nov 13, 2020 19:47:23 GMT
I remember thinking Vanity Trap was alright. But it did strike me almost as if it were a lost Sapphire and Steel script they had repurposed for Doctor Who.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2020 4:27:54 GMT
I would not say Dreadful...I would say just not every memorable considering it was a box set....I maybe had too an expectation of it....and as such I cannot even remember very much about it at all now If you can't remember much about it, then trust me it was dreadful. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2020 5:28:01 GMT
I would not say Dreadful...I would say just not every memorable considering it was a box set....I maybe had too an expectation of it....and as such I cannot even remember very much about it at all now If you can't remember much about, then trust me it was dreadful. I never really think too much of BF is dreadful but if am not grabbed within the first ten minutes of a story I kind of know it won’t have much relistenable value...I like Peri I like 6th Doctor though I must say I prefer Peri with Peter’s Doctor....I was just expecting something from this set and I guess I didn’t get it...probably more to do with me than the stories lol |
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 14, 2020 9:52:07 GMT
If you can't remember much about, then trust me it was dreadful. I never really think too much of BF is dreadful but if am not grabbed within the first ten minutes of a story I kind of know it won’t have much relistenable value...I like Peri I like 6th Doctor though I must say I prefer Peri with Peter’s Doctor....I was just expecting something from this set and I guess I didn’t get it...probably more to do with me than the stories lol I agree, I also expected more. And no, the issue is not with you.
It is also no issue with Colin and Nicola, who are always giving their best.
I think we have become spoiled by some of the amazing box sets they have released. This was an okay and enjoyable release, but it was a far cry from things like the latest Bernice Summerfield set or even the War Master series. Now, THOSE are a completely different league.
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Post by elkawho on Nov 14, 2020 14:30:54 GMT
I wonder if this is going to be an issue going forward. This set seems to be an early step toward what they are going to do with Doctors 5,6 and 7 once the MR has ended. In the MR, you might get a bad story here and there, maybe even a few, but then you had the next month to look forward to. If this boxset was all I had of Sixie for most of the year, all at once, nothing for possibly 6-9 months or longer, then I wouldn't be too happy about it. A box full of mediocre at best stories? Yes, I know they won't all be mediocre. Wicked Sisters is another step in that boxset direction and it was quite good. But when the set isn't good and we have nothing else to look forward to, that will will a bad taste is some people's mouths. I'm going to miss the MR.
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Post by Timelord007 on Nov 20, 2020 13:04:02 GMT
Gotta admit after a decent opener i felt the remaining stories to be inconsistent, Like in particular annoyed the sh.t out of me with those bloody intrusive ad breaks which took me out the story, whoever thought this a good idea needs there P45, a pity as it had a interesting idea.
Overall i rate it a 3/5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 22, 2020 17:42:04 GMT
Gotta admit after a decent opener i felt the remaining stories to be inconsistent, Like in particular annoyed the sh.t out of me with those bloody intrusive ad breaks which took me out the story, whoever thought this a good idea needs there P45, a pity as it had a interesting idea. Overall i rate it a 3/5 Like was dire, I found it almost as impossible to listen to as The Abandoned. |
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Post by grinch on Nov 22, 2020 17:44:48 GMT
Gotta admit after a decent opener i felt the remaining stories to be inconsistent, Like in particular annoyed the sh.t out of me with those bloody intrusive ad breaks which took me out the story, whoever thought this a good idea needs there P45, a pity as it had a interesting idea. Overall i rate it a 3/5 Like was dire, I found it almost as impossible to listen to as The Abandoned. The Abandoned is like a weird fever dream. Definitely needed someone to step in and hold the reins. |
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Peri, unfortunately, had a pretty rough run on television like the Sixth Doctor. She's great in her debut story ("I am the Master!" "S-So what? I'm Perpugilliam Brown and I can shout just as loud as you can!"), but following Androzani, she was often rendered the damoiselle in distress. On audio, she's written to be much more proactive, engaging, and it's where I gained a fondness for the character. In her stories with the Fifth Doctor and Erimem, you actually get to see her slowly grow up, especially in stories like The Eye of the Scorpion, The Church and the Crown, The Council of Nicaea, Son of the Dragon or The Bride of Peladon.
