lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Sept 17, 2019 9:26:14 GMT
Just wondered what our Canadian friends thoughts were on their upcoming federal election.
Us Brits have probably bored everyone else silly talking about brexit.
Who gets the DU vote?
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Post by Digi on Sept 17, 2019 11:08:12 GMT
For our non-Canadian friends, a quick overview....
Canadian politics are primarily down to the three main parties: the Conservatives (Conservative Party of Canada, or CPC), Liberals (Liberal Party of Canada, or LPC), and the NDP (New Democratic Party). Traditionally, the Conservatives are our right-wing party, the NDP are our left-wing party, and the Liberals tend to be our centrist party that lands somewhere between the two.
The Conservatives are just what you'd expect from the name--not remotely interested in conservation of any kind, talk a big game about business, love to talk about how they're pro-tax cuts (never mind that these cuts only ever seem to benefit the already-extremely-wealthy), etc. The Conservatives were the party in power from 2006 until 2015 under PM Stephen Harper, and to their credit managed to ride the country through the recession with largely minimal pain (though there's plenty of room for debate about that), however they were and became increasingly controversial during their time in power, choosing to brand themselves as the Harper Government (rather than the longstanding tradition of calling it the Government of Canada), becoming embroiled in scandals like the muzzling of government environmental scientists in order to advance a pro-fossil fuel agenda, proroguing parliament (twice!), and was the first federal government in the history of the country to be found in contempt of parliament. Harper and the Conservatives were defeated in a landslide in our 2015 election, by the federal Liberal Party under Justin Trudeau. The Conservative Party is currently led by Andrew Scheer.
The Liberals, as noted above, tend to be our centrist party. They waffle a little bit between positions and often find themselves attacked from both sides for being 'too leftist' or 'too right-wing,' depending on who's doing the attacking, but it's a position that allows them to strike a middle path that's often very popular among a lot of Canadians. Broadly speaking, we Canadians tend to be a very 'middle of the road' sort, turning our collective noses up at people who are 'too far' one way or the other. The Liberals rode collective dissatisfaction with the Harper Conservatives to election in 2015 under Justin Trudeau, with certain well-trumpeted campaign promises. Among these were the legalization and regulation of recreational marijuana (legal effective October of last year), a promise to transform elections from first-past-the-post to proportional representation (publicly abandoned February 2017 to a bit of consternation then but rarely mentioned since), a gender-equal cabinet (has been the case since day 1 of this government), strong climate change control measures vis a vis a carbon tax (extremely divisive), and a few others. They're coming into this election a bit damaged due to a 'scandal' earlier this year where it's alleged that Trudeau himself put inappropriate pressure on his attorney general to defer corruption prosecutions against executives of the major construction contracting firm SNC-Lavalin (a huge company that does a ton of both government and private construction projects and employs a huge number of people). Now, I put 'scandal' in quote ticks like that because....there's a pretty significant ethical question/problem in this whole situation that's really not good, but at the same time the Conservatives have spent most of this year banging drums that this is somehow a huge, horrific crime, when it's been determined more than once by official bodies that no crime was committed at all. Still, it's definitely a factor, heading into this election.
The last of the major parties is the NDP, who our international friends will recognize as left-wingers. They're the party that are notably extremely pro-union, pro-worker, insist that none of the climate change legislation has been strong enough, that sort of thing. Their star was in particular ascendance during the middle Harper years due to the implosion of the Liberal Party, Harper scandals, and the NDP's own leader at the time, Jack Layton. Layton had a reputation among both his allies and his opponents as being a truly decent man, a man who actually truly did care about this country more than himself or his own well-being, and that's pretty damned rare in politics. Sadly, in February 2010 (there was an election in 2011) he announced that he had been diagnosed with prostate cancer. He found the good fight, but ultimately lost his battle and passed away in August of 2011. He was so well-loved nationwide that he became the first Opposition leader to be afforded a state funeral. With the loss of Layton, the NDP took a hit that they really still haven't recovered from. Their current leader is Jagmeet Singh, who is the first permanent federal party leader who is a member of a visible minority. It's usually safe to assume that the NDP will be a player in federal elections, but they've never come close to winning, so the smart money is on them being third place (so naturally, after the election, both parties court them for votes in parliament).
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Post by Digi on Sept 17, 2019 11:16:28 GMT
For my part, I think that unfortunately I am stuck with strategic voting this time around, rather than being able to take the time to seek out who I'd actually like to vote for.
I dislike Justin Trudeau. I think he's a sanctimonious, holier-than-thou twit who, despite no crime having been committed via the SNC-Lavalin affair, is damaged goods. And on top of that, I don't think he possesses the maturity or statesmanship to be a good and effective leader.
But I also think that a Conservative government would be a gigantic lurch in the wrong direction. I think they're regressives, socially, environmentally, and politically, and don't want them anywhere near government. And Andrew Scheer possesses all the charm and charisma of a sentient jar of mayonnaise, so I think he would also be a very poor national representative.
I haven't followed the NDP closely enough to know their exact policies, but I suspect that I most strongly identify with them. However, I don't want to risk that my vote will siphon enough away from the Liberals to allow Scheer to ascend to power.
So regardless of how I feel about Trudeau, or about the policies of parties other than Lib/Con, I'll very likely be voting Liberal in order to vote against the Conservatives.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Sept 17, 2019 21:13:44 GMT
For my part, I think that unfortunately I am stuck with strategic voting this time around, rather than being able to take the time to seek out who I'd actually like to vote for. I dislike Justin Trudeau. I think he's a sanctimonious, holier-than-thou twit who, despite no crime having been committed via the SNC-Lavalin affair, is damaged goods. And on top of that, I don't think he possesses the maturity or statesmanship to be a good and effective leader. But I also think that a Conservative government would be a gigantic lurch in the wrong direction. I think they're regressives, socially, environmentally, and politically, and don't want them anywhere near government. And Andrew Scheer possesses all the charm and charisma of a sentient jar of mayonnaise, so I think he would also be a very poor national representative. I haven't followed the NDP closely enough to know their exact policies, but I suspect that I most strongly identify with them. However, I don't want to risk that my vote will siphon enough away from the Liberals to allow Scheer to ascend to power. So regardless of how I feel about Trudeau, or about the policies of parties other than Lib/Con, I'll very likely be voting Liberal in order to vote against the Conservatives. Trudeau can't be trusted anymore than his father could - that he claims to be a feminist and goes and throws the women in caucus under the bus is very telling. That he has been accused of groping a female reporter (prior to his time in office) and claims that she isn't remembering things right is frightening. As someone who has voted for and run campaigns for the Conservatives in the past all I can say is that a party who hired members of the extreme right media to help run their campaign is one I have a very difficult time voting for. Their continued refusal to accept climate change as a fact disturbs me to no end. The NDP is rudderless - the leader will be tossed after this election - currently many are projecting them to barely win enough seats to qualify for official party status. Many long time party supporters are crying foul as the party is blocking many from running under the NDP banner, a move which so far has made it hard for them to field a full slate of candidates. The Green Party lost me when they decided that their candidates in Quebec could also champion the province separating from Canada - a move clearly designed to drain support from the Bloc Quebecois (party that runs in Quebec only, and is only there to promote separating from Canada). The People's Party - racist scum. So I'm hoping there is a half decent independent candidate running in my riding.
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Post by Digi on Sept 17, 2019 23:13:03 GMT
For my part, I think that unfortunately I am stuck with strategic voting this time around, rather than being able to take the time to seek out who I'd actually like to vote for. I dislike Justin Trudeau. I think he's a sanctimonious, holier-than-thou twit who, despite no crime having been committed via the SNC-Lavalin affair, is damaged goods. And on top of that, I don't think he possesses the maturity or statesmanship to be a good and effective leader. But I also think that a Conservative government would be a gigantic lurch in the wrong direction. I think they're regressives, socially, environmentally, and politically, and don't want them anywhere near government. And Andrew Scheer possesses all the charm and charisma of a sentient jar of mayonnaise, so I think he would also be a very poor national representative. I haven't followed the NDP closely enough to know their exact policies, but I suspect that I most strongly identify with them. However, I don't want to risk that my vote will siphon enough away from the Liberals to allow Scheer to ascend to power. So regardless of how I feel about Trudeau, or about the policies of parties other than Lib/Con, I'll very likely be voting Liberal in order to vote against the Conservatives. Trudeau can't be trusted anymore than his father could - that he claims to be a feminist and goes and throws the women in caucus under the bus is very telling. That he has been accused of groping a female reporter (prior to his time in office) and claims that she isn't remembering things right is frightening. As someone who has voted for and run campaigns for the Conservatives in the past all I can say is that a party who hired members of the extreme right media to help run their campaign is one I have a very difficult time voting for. Their continued refusal to accept climate change as a fact disturbs me to no end. The NDP is rudderless - the leader will be tossed after this election - currently many are projecting them to barely win enough seats to qualify for official party status. Many long time party supporters are crying foul as the party is blocking many from running under the NDP banner, a move which so far has made it hard for them to field a full slate of candidates. The Green Party lost me when they decided that their candidates in Quebec could also champion the province separating from Canada - a move clearly designed to drain support from the Bloc Quebecois (party that runs in Quebec only, and is only there to promote separating from Canada). The People's Party - racist scum. So I'm hoping there is a half decent independent candidate running in my riding. ...I can’t find fault in any of that.
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Post by coffeeaddict on Sept 18, 2019 0:45:21 GMT
Trudeau can't be trusted anymore than his father could - that he claims to be a feminist and goes and throws the women in caucus under the bus is very telling. That he has been accused of groping a female reporter (prior to his time in office) and claims that she isn't remembering things right is frightening. As someone who has voted for and run campaigns for the Conservatives in the past all I can say is that a party who hired members of the extreme right media to help run their campaign is one I have a very difficult time voting for. Their continued refusal to accept climate change as a fact disturbs me to no end. The NDP is rudderless - the leader will be tossed after this election - currently many are projecting them to barely win enough seats to qualify for official party status. Many long time party supporters are crying foul as the party is blocking many from running under the NDP banner, a move which so far has made it hard for them to field a full slate of candidates. The Green Party lost me when they decided that their candidates in Quebec could also champion the province separating from Canada - a move clearly designed to drain support from the Bloc Quebecois (party that runs in Quebec only, and is only there to promote separating from Canada). The People's Party - racist scum. So I'm hoping there is a half decent independent candidate running in my riding. ...I can’t find fault in any of that. Until they gave permission to jump the separatism train, I was thinking the Green Party was a possibility, while I think that is a viable strategy if they are only interested in winning Quebec, in the rest of the country it has strong potential to erode the support they've been building up over the past few years. Take a look at their platform - questions of fiscal viability / responsibility aside, some of the things they are looking to do are beyond odd and open the government up to huge potential for massive lawsuits. The final nail in their campaign has to be Elizabeth May's comments yesterday during a press conference that she doesn't realistically feel she has a chance at becoming PM. That is something a party leader should NEVER say, and I would hope the membership is smart enough to punt her during a post election leadership review. As for the Conservatives, it is a shame Rona Ambrose didn't run for the leadership and was only willing to be the interim leader. Frankly she was a far better option than any of the clowns who did run.
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Post by Digi on Sept 19, 2019 14:00:13 GMT
Well, things just got interesting: photos surface in which PM Trudeau is in blackface during a high school event (from ca. 1990), and in brownface from an "Arabian Nights-themed party" when he was a teacher at a school in BC (from 2001).
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Post by Star Platinum on Sept 22, 2019 18:12:21 GMT
I’ve been dreading this election.
Schemer is basically Doug Ford lite, and I’ve seen first hand how ford has gutted Ontario in his first of four years as premier.
Trudeau is by far damaged goods at this point. In an ideal world I’d like to see the liberals throw him to the curb. I expect to vote for them, simply because, while he is ethically compromised, he is the lesser of two evils.
The NDP are a little too far to the left, but if they had a minority government I think they’d be successful. With the liberals and conservatives staying their hand, I think they have potential for good.
The PPC, I’m not overly concerned about. While they are racist, and a huge step backwards. All I can see them doing is splitting the conservative voter base and actually doing the liberal party a favour.
The Green Party, i’d like to see them pick up more traction. Lately, my views have shifted towards sustainability. I want the world I leave behind for my niece and nephew to be a better, cleaner one than this one. While the liberals are a step in the right direction, the conservatives will stop at nothing to reduce that progress.
It looks like this time, I’ll be voting for the best party to stop the conservatives from getting in.
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Post by constonks on Sept 23, 2019 3:42:30 GMT
I generally wait until near the end to do any substantial research on policies and stuff - it's just too exhausting to follow the news the whole time otherwise - so I haven't done a deep dive, but yeah, it's not looking great in terms of options.
I'm just hoping for a minority whoever wins - but then again I always am - checks and balances from the other parties, no laws 100% guaranteed to pass or fail. Otherwise you just end up with three to five years of one party passing laws that half the country hates, then three to five of the other party doing the same in the opposite direction...
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Post by coffeeaddict on Sept 25, 2019 22:04:06 GMT
I generally wait until near the end to do any substantial research on policies and stuff - it's just too exhausting to follow the news the whole time otherwise - so I haven't done a deep dive, but yeah, it's not looking great in terms of options. I'm just hoping for a minority whoever wins - but then again I always am - checks and balances from the other parties, no laws 100% guaranteed to pass or fail. Otherwise you just end up with three to five years of one party passing laws that half the country hates, then three to five of the other party doing the same in the opposite direction... For purely selfish reasons a majority is my preference. A minority government would see my workload increase around 200%.
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Post by Star Platinum on Oct 22, 2019 4:57:43 GMT
Overall, I’m happy with election.
Trudeau will be kept on a tighter leash. Sheer will hopefully shut up, and in an ideal world, step down as leader.
I’m extremely proud that the far right PPC got BTFO. By far the most trumpian of the candidates, Bernier and his agenda do not deserve to see the light of day, let alone run the country. Not a single seat.
I’m not sure how the NDP did, but I think they had an excellent campaign. I was impressed by Jagmeet during his run.
The greens are picking up steam, 3 seats compared to one last time. I hope they continue to grow. They can lose Elizabeth May though, I don’t think she has what it takes to run the country.
Not overly impressed with the bloc, but I’ve never thought Quebec for the Québécois attitude.
Alberta will be the one to watch. Almost purely conservative, there are already cries for them to separate. Hopefully they take a look at brexit and see how well that’s going. Moving forward, they may feel under represented but I think they have more influence than they know. This could work well for them.
That’s my take on this.
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Post by Digi on Oct 22, 2019 10:33:49 GMT
Liberals did about as I expected. Conservatives did more poorly than I expected NDP did more poorly than I expected. Bloc did quite a bit better than I was expecting. Green did better than I was expecting too.
Overall I'm pleased as well.
Ideally, I'd like to see Trudeau leave and be replaced by someone like Freeland, but I'll take Trudeau any day of the week and twice on Sunday, sooner than Scheer. I'm happy that my riding, which repeatedly went blue during the Harper years, re-elected our LPC MP, and even more pleased that in neighbouring Milton, that toad Lisa Raitt was finally voted out. I don't know how she survived 2015's election, but she should've been gone then. But I think the part that I'm happiest about is that not only did the PPC win no seats, but that Bernier himself was comfortably defeated in his own riding. Take your hateful s**t elsewhere, you're not wanted here.
Unfortunately for Jagmeet, who I think makes a pretty decent leader of his party, I expect this will be his last shot at PM. A poorer-than-expected third place showing in his first time at bat bodes poorly for his future, and it won't at all surprise me if he steps aside before 2023. And unfortunately for Canada, I don't think Scheer will quit.
The new power dynamic should be interesting. As a minority, LPC can't do whatever they want anymore, but being more natural allies with the NDP than any of the other parties, I'm wondering if maybe we can expect a leftward shift in policies just in order to secure needed votes. I imagine the CPC will be alone as opposition, because their only real option for allies is the Bloc--and nobody gets along with the Bloc.
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Post by Digi on Oct 24, 2019 10:30:21 GMT
Here's an interesting take from a Conservative official: I also think the affordability narrative — we’re going to help people who are struggling — wasn’t really a hit in the GTA. I think that played well out West, where we kicked ass. But I remember one day, I was knocking on doors in a suburban 905 riding, and our entire pitch was about affordability, and I suddenly realized that every single door I was knocking on opened up into a million-dollar home. Or $2 million, in some areas. We were knocking on the doors of all these people living inside gold mines and telling them we have a plan to help them with their economic anxiety.There's a lot more at the whole article, but I found that part particularly interesting.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on Oct 24, 2019 11:17:34 GMT
A word of thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. I know very little about Canadian politics and I have found this thread both interesting and informative, with everything very amicably discussed.
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