Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 11:34:36 GMT
Was it a decent foe? Was it badly executed? Memorable? I would be interested in your opinions.....
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Oct 17, 2019 18:09:07 GMT
To be honest... not a fan. The basic idea of how they came to be was clever, however, the execution left something to be desired. I am also not the biggest fan of the "Zombie army" scenario, because it really has been done to death. In the Dark Eyes stories, I definitely preferred the Master and his antics, and having him as the main villain would have been enough IMHO. He could even have created his own zombie army. As it is, it somehow gives the impression that they desperately needed something to keep the "Dark Eyes" relation of the first set alive somehow and just shoved this in, even if it was less than a perfect fit. I have often wondered why they have not just re-named the box sets to something else instead of having the title constricting the story line.
|
|
|
Post by sherlock on Oct 17, 2019 18:13:17 GMT
I honestly wasn’t particularly taken with it as an ongoing villain in Dark Eyes, it’s just a gas that makes zombies. Maybe I’d feel differently if I’d listened to its other stories, where it doesn’t have share anatognist role with the Master.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 18:16:26 GMT
I give Nick points for trying to at least create an Epic enemy and i have a fondness for The Seeds Of War but somehow did get lost in the timely wimey aspects of it all in fact i read a synopsis on WIKI and went...OMG is that what actually happened?
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on Oct 17, 2019 18:35:27 GMT
I give Nick points for trying to at least create an Epic enemy and i have a fondness for The Seeds Of War but somehow did get lost in the timely wimey aspects of it all in fact i read a synopsis on WIKI and went...OMG is that what actually happened? Without joking, it took me two listens to actually get a grasp at the origin story.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 18:50:11 GMT
I give Nick points for trying to at least create an Epic enemy and i have a fondness for The Seeds Of War but somehow did get lost in the timely wimey aspects of it all in fact i read a synopsis on WIKI and went...OMG is that what actually happened? Without joking, it took me two listens to actually get a grasp at the origin story. I think it took me about four lol
|
|
|
Post by polly on Oct 17, 2019 19:23:45 GMT
The only Eminence story I've heard was Destroy the Infinite. I found it pretty forgettable, and as such, I've forgotten it.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 19:38:36 GMT
Was it a decent foe? Was it badly executed? Memorable? I would be interested in your opinions..... I didn't think much of the Eminence as a foe to be honest.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2019 20:21:19 GMT
I can't tell you what I thought of the Eminence in Dark Eyes (I'd have to revisit the series, it's been a while), but I really enjoyed them in The Seeds of War. I'd daresay that Seeds may be my favourite Six/Mel story. Mainly, down to two things: - Firstly, we get to see the immediate consequences of the war with them up close. The Earth Alliance won, but if Ridius IV is any indication, that didn't mean much. There's very little left for people to celebrate beyond the destruction of former monuments to enemy powers. It's a hard existence, filled with starvation and inequality, and it's getting harder. Worse, the Eminence may not have been annihilated as they claimed, after all. So, if there is another war, the Alliance isn't equipped to handle it.
- Secondly, Colin Baker's performance. The Eminence is an enemy that thrives on its reputation in that story and he really sells them as a terrifying threat. It's so rare to see the Doctor genuinely panic, so it sticks with you. Their defeat feels as though it comes only from his wisdom, at this point in his lives, and it's by the skin of their teeth.
For Destroy the Infinite... Origin stories are tricky little things. To use a random example from the character of John Constantine, there's many a mention of a place called Newcastle. It hangs like a spectre over his appearances in Swamp Thing. Something bad, bad, bad happened there. We only get snippets here and there, but it left Constantine a gibbering wreck for years and destroyed his team. It's a great bit of backstory... but when we see the event in the flesh, it's not really done justice. The imagination turned out something far grander. In that instance, for Infinite, I just didn't buy that this was what made Sixie so scared. So, maybe it's a bit like Halloween. Strong original entry and strong idea, but the sequels didn't quite hit the notes they required.
|
|
|
Post by Digi on Oct 17, 2019 21:42:31 GMT
Oof. I cannot disagree more with all the negative opinions in this thread so far. I loved the Eminence, the unstoppable nature, the unstoppable army (seriously, how cool a name is “the Infinite Army”?!), the...directed collective, I suppose you’d describe it, and especially the voice. I was thoroughly, thoroughly happy with them/it as a monster.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2019 4:27:44 GMT
Oof. I cannot disagree more with all the negative opinions in this thread so far. I loved the Eminence, the unstoppable nature, the unstoppable army (seriously, how cool a name is “the Infinite Army”?!), the...directed collective, I suppose you’d describe it, and especially the voice. I was thoroughly, thoroughly happy with them/it as a monster. I loved the vocal i admit
|
|
mbt66
Chancellery Guard
Likes: 3,079
|
Post by mbt66 on Jan 22, 2020 17:08:37 GMT
I missed this thread originally.
Personally I really liked the concept of the Eminence and would like to see more of them.
They felt like an outer space gothic villain created by Hammer horror. The breath of forever converting the unwilling brethren to the cult of the undead. I always imagined the transportation caskets as elaborately carved coffins so there was always something of the night about them.
I know their story might be at an end, but it finished far too quickly. Before they were co-opted into the Dark Eyes series, I wonder if Nick had a different plan for them.
There does seem to be a large Fifth Doctor sized hole in the story of The Eminence, which I hope Big Finish will fill at some point.
|
|
|
Post by Zagreus on Jan 22, 2020 18:48:30 GMT
I feel like it was a missed opportunity. Lots of nice setup. I liked Destroy the Infinite and Seeds of War, and their appearances in Dark Eyes 2 & 3 were quite good, despite Dark Eyes' narrative cohesion problems. And then Dark Eyes 4 happened and... it all just fell apart.
I had a fan theory, that the Eminence was the ultimate form of the decayed Beevers Master post Mastermind, a distilled mist housing an evil consciousness, the only thing left at the end of time until The Doctor shows up and triggers a spark of recognition that causes it to daisy chain its way back in time and start possessing people en masse. And the reason the Time Lords have sent MacQueen to deal with it is, well, fighting fire with fire, really. And MacQueen wouldn't remember being The Eminence due to the whole "only the most recent version of a Time Lord will remember the events of a crossover event" thing. Yes we saw the beginnings of the Eminence in Masterplan, but the Master's mistform could have easily been added to the mix turning it into what it was.
The convoluted technobabble and its ultimate "oh it's just the daleks again, really" conclusion was a let down, to say the least.
|
|
|
Post by frisby78 on Jan 22, 2020 20:38:55 GMT
Wasn't overly enamoured with them. There was nothing that fresh or exciting about them in my humble opinion.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 22, 2020 20:54:04 GMT
Forgotten all about it lol
|
|
|
Post by mrperson on Jan 23, 2020 1:24:42 GMT
Eh...I felt rather "meh" about it. I loved DE1, though. Eminence free unless my memory is completely buggered
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2020 9:23:51 GMT
Wasn’t too impressed by ‘Destroy the Infinite’ and I thought its backstory was just unnecessarily convoluted.
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on May 23, 2020 9:31:36 GMT
Now finally having listened to "Destroy the Infinite" and re-listening to "Seeds of War"... I am still not the biggest fan of the Eminence. On paper, the idea is brilliant. Everything about it screams awesome. But somehow the execution of this idea is just lacking. It is also not helped that the supposedly traumatic events of having the Doctor possessed by the Eminence just fizzle out and we never get the epic battle of wills that would be implied by the idea. How terrifying would this have been if there would have been real consequences? If the Doctor would have done something really devastating while possessed? For me, this idea just sounds like a third grade lame imitation of TNGs "Best of Both Worlds". But while Picard really gets put through the wringer and his actions as Locutus do have real consequences, you do not buy the same trauma from the Doctor here. At all. Just imagine how great this could have been. As it is, all I see is some wasted potential.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on May 23, 2020 9:50:52 GMT
Now finally having listened to "Destroy the Infinite" and re-listening to "Seeds of War"... I am still not the biggest fan of the Eminence. On paper, the idea is brilliant. Everything about it screams awesome. But somehow the execution of this idea is just lacking. It is also not helped that the supposedly traumatic events of having the Doctor possessed by the Eminence just fizzle out and we never get the epic battle of wills that would be implied by the idea. How terrifying would this have been if there would have been real consequences? If the Doctor would have done something really devastating while possessed? For me, this idea just sounds like a third grade lame imitation of TNGs "Best of Both Worlds". But while Picard really gets put through the wringer and his actions as Locutus do have real consequences, you do not buy the same trauma from the Doctor here. At all. Just imagine how great this could have been. As it is, all I see is some wasted potential. Or a rematch... *scratches chin thoughtfully* Does The Seeds of War mention that he's only met them once before or is it a bit more vague than that?
|
|
|
Post by tuigirl on May 23, 2020 9:57:10 GMT
Now finally having listened to "Destroy the Infinite" and re-listening to "Seeds of War"... I am still not the biggest fan of the Eminence. On paper, the idea is brilliant. Everything about it screams awesome. But somehow the execution of this idea is just lacking. It is also not helped that the supposedly traumatic events of having the Doctor possessed by the Eminence just fizzle out and we never get the epic battle of wills that would be implied by the idea. How terrifying would this have been if there would have been real consequences? If the Doctor would have done something really devastating while possessed? For me, this idea just sounds like a third grade lame imitation of TNGs "Best of Both Worlds". But while Picard really gets put through the wringer and his actions as Locutus do have real consequences, you do not buy the same trauma from the Doctor here. At all. Just imagine how great this could have been. As it is, all I see is some wasted potential. Or a rematch... *scratches chin thoughtfully* Does The Seeds of War mention that he's only met them once before or is it a bit more vague than that? As I understood it they only mention the meeting of 4 with the Eminence in "Destroy the Infinite". The events of that story get referenced directly.
|
|