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Post by mark687 on Nov 13, 2019 12:32:52 GMT
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Post by mark687 on Nov 13, 2019 15:22:49 GMT
Very Good Indeed
Could easily imagine this on TV at the time and its a bit sobering that some of the themes are still relevant
Still not entirely sold on Dreyfus (judgement purely based on performance) he's not smooth and charming like Delgado, Beevers and Jacobi, nether is he joyfully camp like Aninely and McQueen, its almost like he's got very good material that he can't quite get but still thinks he's nailed it.
If this truly is the last time we'll see the Series 4 TARDIS Crew reimagined I shall miss them and Thank you very much to Elliot Chapman, its been a consistently fine tribute.
Regards
mark687
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 15:44:02 GMT
If this truly is the last time we'll see the Series 4 TARDIS Crew reimagined I shall miss them and Thank you very much to Elliot Chapman, its been a consistently fine tribute. Hear hear! I can still remember when the casting was announced via the podcast and we got a brief and tantalising snippet of Chapman in-studio as Ben. I love the Second Doctor era and he played an excellent part in recreating it for some fab new adventures.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 19:14:02 GMT
Why does this seem to be the last time Elliot will feature as Ben? What a shame if so. If there was some announcement, I've missed it.
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Post by shallacatop on Nov 13, 2019 21:17:05 GMT
Why does this seem to be the last time Elliot will feature as Ben? What a shame if so. If there was some announcement, I've missed it. There’s not been an announcement as such. Elliot posted on Twitter to promote The Home Guard coming out, but mentioned it would be his last time playing Ben. He then clarified by saying it marks him appearing in the same amount of stories as Michael Craze and he feels that to record any more would be inappropriate. That could easily change. Fans could reassure him that it wouldn’t be appropriate and it could alter his opinion. Big Finish certainly haven’t said anything about stopping releases with Ben & Polly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2019 23:05:49 GMT
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Post by IndieMacUser on Nov 14, 2019 12:07:28 GMT
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Post by Star Platinum on Nov 14, 2019 22:27:42 GMT
I've enjoyed this one.
Issues with Drefus aside, he cuts a competent master and some of his musical cues really do evoke the ones that were used with Delgado.
Elliot Chapman does another excellent job with his swan song, I'm glad he goes out on a high.
Once again,Simon Guerrier delivers an excellent story with several great twists!
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Post by barnabaslives on Nov 15, 2019 1:00:22 GMT
There’s not been an announcement as such. Elliot posted on Twitter to promote The Home Guard coming out, but mentioned it would be his last time playing Ben. He then clarified by saying it marks him appearing in the same amount of stories as Michael Craze and he feels that to record any more would be inappropriate. That could easily change. Fans could reassure him that it wouldn’t be appropriate and it could alter his opinion. Big Finish certainly haven’t said anything about stopping releases with Ben & Polly. I do hope he changes his mind. Personally, if the number of stories where Elliot appeared as Ben exceeded the stories where Michael appeared as Ben, I don't know what to think of it except it being very much a good thing. With all due respect to Michael, Elliot is Ben now as far as I'm concerned, and I'm sure he must have the right to appear in however many stories he'd like.
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Post by Hieronymus on Nov 15, 2019 20:26:18 GMT
I felt the story was a bit lackluster compared to what I usually expect from Simon Guerrier. This is no reflection on the main cast or production, just the lack of strong writing. I do agree with what has been said elsewhere about Dreyfus as the Master: he is adequate, but does not seize the reigns of this role. It is a pedestrian Master we've gotten, and not on par with other actors who've taken on the mantle. The writing was still clear, the characters and plot were well laid out. There was a bit of a mystery with an innovative twist to the story. The main cast performed well (as always) and some of the guest cast were quite good. Production values were high, and I appreciated the sound design and music. Some of the sound and music cues gave the listener information above and beyond the dialogue, which served the story well.
I was entertained, but there isn't anything that raised this story above sea level for me.
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Post by tuigirl on Nov 16, 2019 17:37:21 GMT
Just finished this. It was alright. Especially the beginning with all the suspense and {Spoiler} The Doctor beating up and threatening to shoot his companions was quite nice for a change. In the end it became the usual Doctor vs. Master story. It was well done but nothing really special.
I also have to agree that this Master was not very distinctive... sometimes you could have thought he was sounding like McQueen, sometimes like a mix of the others... nothing to set him apart from the other incarnations.
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Post by bohnny on Nov 18, 2019 23:37:40 GMT
Anyone aware why Elliot Chapman/Ben is not listened in the credits at the end of Ep 4? Seems like the kind of thing that must have been deliberate.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2019 16:59:05 GMT
I certainly hope its not Elliots Last time he has become a highlight of this range for me.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2019 6:20:51 GMT
so strange when you first hear Elliot appear as Ben ....you see Michael. I love the Ben Jamie and Polly dynamic and hope that ELLIOT continues I think that would be a greater honour to Mike
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Post by gregm on Nov 25, 2019 6:20:38 GMT
Some speclation that might be too much of a spoiler for plot details... {Spoiler} The background to what is happening in this story seemed to echo The War Games - the Master is working for a mysterious employer who is recreating a warzone from the Earth's past. I'm in two minds on this, and never a fan of 'The War Chied is the Master' theory. On the other hand, the ending might see the Master in a position from whuch he'll escape for Terror of the Autons...
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 1, 2019 8:24:22 GMT
I enjoyed this one, good story, brilliantly performed by the cast, James Dreyfuss i thought didn't put his own stamp on The Master though & while not a bad performance he kinda played it safe.
However i get the feeling there could be a arc here for a future Master box set.
I rate it 4/5.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 5, 2019 9:40:20 GMT
I enjoyed this tale overall, although it wasn't quite the "instant classic" that I was hoping for from the premise - Two vs. the pre-Delgado Master.
I think the story wasn't quite epic enough for me, the Master's scheme seemed fairly low-key by his standards. I guess, in its defence, it is supposed to show that the Master is still developing into the villain we love to hate, and this is how he starts using a technique that later becomes part of his modus operandi. Which makes a sort of sense, but the story just lacked a certain something.
Performance wise, unlike some of the comments above, I thought Dreyfus was fine, his voice has a certain silky quality to it that is ideal for the Master. He was noticeably absent from the Extras, especially at the end when Guerrier and Wills talk about a pre-Delgado Master and we would normally have expected a comment from the actor playing the part, which I assume was deliberate on BF's part. I definitely prefer sane, silky Masters like Dreyfus, Delgado, Beevers, Jacobi to the insane joker-ised incarnations like McQueen and Simm.
As for Eliot Chapman's non-credit at the end and his decision to stop playing Ben, I think taking the two together and reading between the lines that could be his response to the Dreyfus controversy. His stated reason for stopping - that he had equalled the number of episodes Michael Craze did - doesn't quite stack up* by my reckoning. If this is what he has decided then that is of course his prerogative, but to make a gesture that likely means nothing whatsoever to Dreyfus and only succeeds in disappointing BF and BF listeners seems a bit counter-intuitive - in effect punishing the innocent while the guilty walk free. But this is all speculation on my part.
* Craze did 9 stories on TV, Chapman has done 11. If we are counting episodes Craze's 9 stories totalled 40 episodes (7x4, 2x6) although he was absent from 3 episodes of the Faceless Ones and 1 episode of Power of the Daleks, so I make it 36, but there could be another week off I have missed, whereas Chapman has done 34 (6x4, 10x2). I think he may possibly have been absent from an episode of the Yes Men, so maybe his tally is only 33? If these figures are wrong then please correct me and apologies to Eliot Chapman.
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Post by slithe on Dec 9, 2019 20:04:02 GMT
Half way through this and still chewing it over...
This would probably have made more of an impact on broadcast in 1966 when the Second World War was much more prevalent in the national consciousness... There is a lot here that 'rings' true, but a lot that is deliberately misleading and deceptive. 'What' War this is or even the time period is, as yet, unclear.
I like the way that all the standard stereotypes of the Home Front in WWII are dealt with and the 'Doctor Who meets Dad's Army' setting comes across quite well. Even at the halfway stage, I don't buy the Second Doctor as totally addled and confused by it all - like the Seventh, he is too clever and is always a step ahead of everyone.
Not that sold on the Drefyus version of the Master. The scene with him in the Anderson shelter with some homemade biscuits is quite amusing - thought Delgado would have been far more convincing...
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Post by slithe on Dec 10, 2019 12:06:23 GMT
Just finished the second half of this...
A interesting little story this one. The first half spends a lot of time 'world building' and investing in characters and their environs. You genuinely get the feeling that this is a 'real' community and, whilst it slows the pace down, it does help to make the characters more rounded and explain the actions that they take towards the end of the story.
The second half shifts away from this and is more of a typical science-fiction based story. If anything, it is a rip-off of War of the Worlds with 'spiders' in machines that tend to pick off the survivors and attack the town. Not too sure about the solution here - the Doctor 'reminding' everyone about galactic law is niche, but a rather deus ex machina approach if I'm honest. Not entirely out of place with the Sixties version of the series, but not very subtle/clever.
Where this story is strong is the themes that come out of this. Clearly, the ending is quite powerful - the colonists wanting to 'live alone' and 'not integrate'. Whilst this has resonance in the UK at the moment (for obvious reasons), it would not have been out of place in the late 1960s with debates about joining the, then, Common Market/EEC. There is a distinct whiff of 'fortress Britain' and 'standing alone' here. I particularly liked the hints at Empire and Imperialism and how the arguments with the colonists and the spiders started over land (what else do people squabble over) and that, despite the spiders actually being helpful in the end, there is still suspicion and distrust of them. The idea that the colonists and their ways are superior is something that the Doctor cannot change and, even if he wanted to, could not.
This story is also good at questioning the 'glory of the past'. Jamie's throwaway line at the end when he says 'the past wasn't that great', is food for thought. The colonists, very much the British themselves, believed an a glory age of 'cricket on the lawn, church fetes, unlocked doors, queuing, etc.', when much of these are based on myths and half-truths. As the past is familiar/comfortable, we, just like the colonists, escape to it - we know what has happened. As the Doctor points out to the Master - the world he has created is full of paranoia, suspicion and distrust - sentiments that I doubt were entirely wide of the mark during the Home Front in WWII - does anyone really want to go back to air raid shelters, rationing and bombed out housing? Sadly, these themes are not fully developed here and the Doctor doesn't really challenge them - perhaps reflecting that there is no solution to this.
The interesting premise about 'who' the Master is working for is never resolved, quite wisely I think. Is this story designed to segue into The War Games (would suggest the reason why the Doctor is in such a hurry to leave). The actual villainy of the Master here is also questionable - does he do anything apart from stir two sides up into war (a similar trick he plays in Frontier in Space)? Is the Doctor just as bad when he starts the War between the spiders and humans? The Drefuys version doesn't help as the character comes across as a stock villain. I would also loved to have heard the Master tell more about the Doctor's criminal past as well. However, you do get the feeling here that both the Doctor and the Master are equally frightened of the Time Lords - with both not wishing their wrath on either. This does return some of the mystery of the Time Lords that has since been lost over the years.
Not sure if this will be a classic. It would certainly have been interesting to see the reaction to this had it been broadcast in 1966/7 - a period when attitudes in the UK were beginning to change. I also wonder had this been a TV set of episodes, whether they would have survived junking because of the link to the War. Dad's Army did remarkably well...
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Post by shallacatop on Dec 11, 2019 16:07:33 GMT
Wasn’t a massive fan of this. Far from bad, but I’m not overly enthusiastic about it either.
There’s an intriguing set up in the first two parts, but it doesn’t spend enough time where the real interest lies: the Doctor. The last two parts completely change tact and genre in a War of the Worlds rip-off that feels rather generic. There’s good stuff in there, particularly the first half of the story, but there’s not enough in there to make it stand out and I didn’t get the thematic vibes that others have mentioned. There’s the scope for it, it’s just not exploited. Not what I expected from Simon Guerrier, frankly.
The Dreyfus Master amounts to little more than generic soundbites. The definition of the character based on a brief character description. I feel Big Finish made a mistake not taking advantage of him being the First Master. He’s just an alternative to Delgado for the earlier incarnations.
I’d have happily sacrificed this for an extra two parts of Daughter of the Gods.
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