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Post by nucleusofswarm on Dec 14, 2019 1:53:45 GMT
So, for the long-timers - how would you describe/characterize how BF has changed/evolved over the years? How would you term, say, where they were at the beginning, where they were in the mid 00s, the early 10s etc. and how that affected their identity.
For example, I'd think of maybe mid-10s to now as the 'legitimization' - when they became more of a known quantity as a production company, gripped their particular niche of British 60s-80s cult media, and attracted more consistently bigger names for both acting and writing credits. The latter especially, having more 'established' names in contemporary drama and TV, compared to the hodge-podge of sketch writers, novelists, comics writers and general enthusiasts of prior years.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 14, 2019 10:37:03 GMT
Hmm. They certainly have become more mainstream and also have started with all these all-star blockbuster events.
When they started out, they were refreshing, vibrant and not afraid of experiments. There was a lot of the weird and wonderful about. There was over the top humour, we got excessive violence, real horror and even a musical. There were truly absurd stories. I really miss that. It was like pioneers marching into a new era.
Then came an era of the settling in, which I personally find pretty... grey and uninspiring.
This however was followed by the modern era of today, with tons of fan-service, lots of spin-offs, stars from the new TV series and all these big event releases. I do love these events, however, I am missing the time when things were not so streamlined and when there was some spirit of adventure and the will to take risks. As someone else in another thread said- modern Big Finish feels very much like a continuation of the New TV Series on audio. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but something is sorely missing.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 11:21:20 GMT
Hmm. They certainly have become more mainstream and also have started with all these all-star blockbuster events. When they started out, they were refreshing, vibrant and not afraid of experiments. There was a lot of the weird and wonderful about. There was over the top humour, we got excessive violence, real horror and even a musical. There were truly absurd stories. I really miss that. It was like pioneers marching into a new era. Then came an era of the settling in, which I personally find pretty... grey and uninspiring. This however was followed by the modern era of today, with tons of fan-service, lots of spin-offs, stars from the new TV series and all these big event releases. I do love these events, however, I am missing the time when things were not so streamlined and when there was some spirit of adventure and the will to take risks. As someone else in another thread said- modern Big Finish feels very much like a continuation of the New TV Series on audio. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but something is sorely missing. Familiarity perhaps? When Big Finish first begun, every release was an event. "You've never heard it so good," said their promotional stuff. There was no series on the television, and any televised mention of Doctor Who was accompanied by sneering about wobbly sets and rubber monsters. I remember the first complaint levelled against BF was that they weren't 'canon' (which some people still say now, which to me is as nonsensical as it has ever been - BF has now become its own canon apart from anything else!). As more releases came out, people complained that each individual audio wasn't as much of an event anymore. Against these moans - and let's face it, some Doctor Who fans are great at moaning - was the acknowledgement that on the whole, these audio stories were (and are) bloody good.
When the show came back to TV, the urge to experiment with styles, the occasional bouts of true horror and violence fizzled out and releases became 'safer' (instructions from the BBC as I remember). Alongside this, though, came more spin-offs and, let's face it, more product (a lot of it non-Doctor Who). Did quantity compromise quality? Well no, not really.
From Gary Russell's reticence to bring back too many familiar faces playing familiar roles, Nick Briggs has done exactly that. We've had recasts, and I've enjoyed some of them, we've had releases that have come perilously close to being fan-dreams (not my thing really, but if others love them, why not?). We've had some incredible actors - some well known, some not - come to BF, we've had full-cast Blake's 7 stories, beautiful recreations of Survivors, Dark Shadows, Avengers, The Prisoner and Sherlock that have followed on from the success (and surpassed the longevity) of early non-Who releases like The Tomorrow People and Sapphire and Steel (both still sadly missed) - and it is these releases that have satisfied my love for more experimental stories. While Doctor Who has done great things in bringing together characters we never thought would meet (and some I've no real interest in - the growing 'War' incarnations is an example of that, but again, others love all that) , and only could meet on audio (the recent Masterly announcement being a great example of that) and giving us more from some the excellent Doctors available, it is to my mind, the range that plays it safest. It's telling that the Doctor Who story I've enjoyed most recently for its ability to push the envelope, is Stephen Gallagher's non televised script from over 30 years ago!
Some long and twisted sentences there. Sorry about that!
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Post by Digi on Dec 14, 2019 17:13:46 GMT
How about a little speculation?
We had the Gary Russell era, and when he decided to hang it up, heir apparent Nick Briggs became big man on campus. Whether it's a year from now or 20, one day Nick will retire or move on too--who do we think will take the reins then? David Richardson? Scott Handcock? Lisa Bowerman?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2019 17:15:26 GMT
How about a little speculation? We had the Gary Russell era, and when he decided to hang it up, heir apparent Nick Briggs became big man on campus. Whether it's a year from now or 20, one day Nick will retire or move on too--who do we think will take the reins then? David Richardson? Scott Handcock? Lisa Bowerman? Feel like it would only be appropriate if Lisa Bowerman took on the mantle in my opinion.
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Post by tuigirl on Dec 14, 2019 22:03:19 GMT
How about a little speculation? We had the Gary Russell era, and when he decided to hang it up, heir apparent Nick Briggs became big man on campus. Whether it's a year from now or 20, one day Nick will retire or move on too--who do we think will take the reins then? David Richardson? Scott Handcock? Lisa Bowerman? The way things are at the moment, they will have to prise his work out of Nick's dead hands when the time comes... I am honestly not sure who will step up then. Maybe it will become a team effort?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 22:20:46 GMT
We had the Gary Russell era, and when he decided to hang it up, heir apparent Nick Briggs became big man on campus. Whether it's a year from now or 20, one day Nick will retire or move on too--who do we think will take the reins then? David Richardson? Scott Handcock? Lisa Bowerman? Nick retire?! Don't see that happening in my lifetime ... and neither would I want to. He probably does too much at times but Big Finish is in great shape with him in charge. The profile of Big Finish is way bigger now than when I bought my first BF story on cassette nineteen years ago and Nick has played a major part in that, so I hope he stays exactky where he is. If we are just speculating then for sure Lisa Bowerman probably deserves a top role at BF. After all, Big Finish started with Lisa bringing Bernice Summerfield to life and she has proven over the years with all her other work for Big Finish that she's very talented so it's not beyond her. (She wouldn't get my 'actual' vote until she commits to commissioning at least five Dalek stories a year if she got the job though!)
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2019 23:06:05 GMT
Yes! We need the Lisa Bowerman era now!
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Post by captainpugwash on Dec 16, 2019 11:42:18 GMT
For fans of a certain vintage I compare bf’s evolution as thus, under Russell it was “The New Adventures”, under Briggs it became “The Missing Adventures”. To be fair though under this new management arrangement for the main range, especially as seen in the fifth doctor adventures, it does seem to be slowly moving back to New Adventures.
As for bf as a whole, I’m a bit worried. Looking to the future I feel that bf are falling way behind. The audiobook/drama world is leaping forward at a fantastic rate. The sales of audiobooks is at an all time high, and so are downloads of scripted podcasts (as audio drama is now called). The wealth of creativity in scripted podcasts is amazing and the quality of them easily match bf. So much so that big production studios and actors are moving in. I mean Marvel for heavens sake are creating scripted podcasts. And the best thing is most of these are free. Yes I know they are usually on premium stitcher first, but after so long out they go available for anyone to download for free. Yes a majority of them have adverts/sponsorship or patron funding. I recently listened to “Gaslight” the new Chloë Grace Moretz starring scripted podcast. Now this could have been quite easily a 4x30 minute serial. Instead it was 10x10-15 minute serial which meant 10 sponsorship slots. Now I’ve got no problem with that, of by breaking it down to smaller episodes they perhaps get more sponsorship. It’s the way the market works. Yet bf don’t do anything like this. Certainly I listen to less bf today than I used to previously, precisely because of the vast increase in scripted podcasts. Yes bf have launched their “originals” range, and I think they had to because of their falling behind, but why ask for ones to pay £/$ for it. In essence they are scripted podcasts so why didn’t they try to have it supported by sponsorship or patrons? I fear bf are pricing themselves out of the market.
Anyway thoughts over, back to how you were.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 16, 2019 11:49:31 GMT
Yes! We need the Lisa Bowerman era now! Lisa is wonderful and I wouldn't knock her in any way, but whilst she is a performer and director has she produced or written much for BF? Without this experience I'm nit sure she is the right person to take over.
As others have said I think Nick will leave BF in his coffin, so I expect him to be around for a while yet.
As for a successor, someone younger, with a good well-rounded background would be best. David Richardson is (I think) of the same generation as Nick, plus he is not a writer. I think JHE should look amongst those who have been working away producing their own ranges - Scott Handcock, James Goss, Simon Guerrier, etc.
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lidar2
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You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Dec 16, 2019 11:52:37 GMT
For fans of a certain vintage I compare bf’s evolution as thus, under Russell it was “The New Adventures”, under Briggs it became “The Missing Adventures”. To be fair though under this new management arrangement for the main range, especially as seen in the fifth doctor adventures, it does seem to be slowly moving back to New Adventures. As for bf as a whole, I’m a bit worried. Looking to the future I feel that bf are falling way behind. The audiobook/drama world is leaping forward at a fantastic rate. The sales of audiobooks is at an all time high, and so are downloads of scripted podcasts (as audio drama is now called). The wealth of creativity in scripted podcasts is amazing and the quality of them easily match bf. So much so that big production studios and actors are moving in. I mean Marvel for heavens sake are creating scripted podcasts. And the best thing is most of these are free. Yes I know they are usually on premium stitcher first, but after so long out they go available for anyone to download for free. Yes a majority of them have adverts/sponsorship or patron funding. I recently listened to “Gaslight” the new Chloë Grace Moretz starring scripted podcast. Now this could have been quite easily a 4x30 minute serial. Instead it was 10x10-15 minute serial which meant 10 sponsorship slots. Now I’ve got no problem with that, of by breaking it down to smaller episodes they perhaps get more sponsorship. It’s the way the market works. Yet bf don’t do anything like this. Certainly I listen to less bf today than I used to previously, precisely because of the vast increase in scripted podcasts. Yes bf have launched their “originals” range, and I think they had to because of their falling behind, but why ask for ones to pay £/$ for it. In essence they are scripted podcasts so why didn’t they try to have it supported by sponsorship or patrons? I fear bf are pricing themselves out of the market. Anyway thoughts over, back to how you were. Interesting thoughts captainpugwash, but from some of your posts on other threads I got the impression you were very anti-download and pro-CD, which I find hard to reconcile with the views expressed above. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but are you now saying BF should be going down the podcast (ie download) route in future? (friendly question)
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Post by captainpugwash on Dec 16, 2019 12:52:00 GMT
For fans of a certain vintage I compare bf’s evolution as thus, under Russell it was “The New Adventures”, under Briggs it became “The Missing Adventures”. To be fair though under this new management arrangement for the main range, especially as seen in the fifth doctor adventures, it does seem to be slowly moving back to New Adventures. As for bf as a whole, I’m a bit worried. Looking to the future I feel that bf are falling way behind. The audiobook/drama world is leaping forward at a fantastic rate. The sales of audiobooks is at an all time high, and so are downloads of scripted podcasts (as audio drama is now called). The wealth of creativity in scripted podcasts is amazing and the quality of them easily match bf. So much so that big production studios and actors are moving in. I mean Marvel for heavens sake are creating scripted podcasts. And the best thing is most of these are free. Yes I know they are usually on premium stitcher first, but after so long out they go available for anyone to download for free. Yes a majority of them have adverts/sponsorship or patron funding. I recently listened to “Gaslight” the new Chloë Grace Moretz starring scripted podcast. Now this could have been quite easily a 4x30 minute serial. Instead it was 10x10-15 minute serial which meant 10 sponsorship slots. Now I’ve got no problem with that, of by breaking it down to smaller episodes they perhaps get more sponsorship. It’s the way the market works. Yet bf don’t do anything like this. Certainly I listen to less bf today than I used to previously, precisely because of the vast increase in scripted podcasts. Yes bf have launched their “originals” range, and I think they had to because of their falling behind, but why ask for ones to pay £/$ for it. In essence they are scripted podcasts so why didn’t they try to have it supported by sponsorship or patrons? I fear bf are pricing themselves out of the market. Anyway thoughts over, back to how you were. Interesting thoughts captainpugwash, but from some of your posts on other threads I got the impression you were very anti-download and pro-CD, which I find hard to reconcile with the views expressed above. Maybe I am misunderstanding you, but are you now saying BF should be going down the podcast (ie download) route in future? (friendly question) You are quite correct in that I’m a cd purchaser, and quite a strong one at that. I think I’ve said my reasons before elsewhere on this site. I do download podcasts, although I do not pay for downloads. If I’m to purchase something I like to have the physical media, and that applies to my music and films etc... Am I advocating bf to become download only? No. I think any licensed property bf have should be both physical and download. However you are always at the mercy of the licence holder and one day they may turn around and remove it (as has happened). Also you are at the mercy of ones remembering the original show and wanting to purchase new material based on that show. There aren’t that many big old tv shows that bf could use, the only one left really is Star Trek. So for bf to survive in the future it has to become a provider of original content. It can’t rest on its laurels. So the “originals” range. Now I don’t know how successful they were in terms of sales, but you are relying on purchasers of your licensed material to purchase the “originals”. I doubt very much that anyone purchased the “originals” who already had not sampled their licensed product. So I think that bf should certainly try a scripted podcast, that certainly is where the market is heading and as more and more download for free, why should they go and pay for a scripted podcast download. If you give enough away free of charge ones will find it harder to justify purchase. So licensed material to continue on cd please (mainly for me), original material in the form of scripted podcasts. That is the way I see the market going in the future. I think bf are already looking at this model, certainly by marketing the physical as collectors edition they are acknowledging the clear division between downloads and physical, and originals and licensed material. Further I do feel that bf should evolve not just into a content provider bit also into a producer/studio for other content makers. There is a studio not far from me where podcasters can go to record their podcast and the studio hire can be for 2 hours. And it’s quite a reasonable rate too. So I do feel that bf have the potential to become the no 1 content provider plus also the no 1 studio. They should be the ones folk go to to get their scripted podcast done. Hope I’ve answered your question. (In a friendly way)
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Post by polly on Dec 16, 2019 20:47:29 GMT
While I haven't been around all that long, I primarily listen to older releases and I'll echo the sentiments of some others in the thread. What it seems to me is that for the first few years, Big Finish was the successor to the TV series, but nowadays, they are a companion to the TV series.
There was a willingness to do strange, experimental things early on. Many of those first 100 Main Range releases especially were quite daring both in content and format. To me, it they feel as though they are pushing the story of the Doctor forward. Less so for Davison (though they've done lovely things with him) because he had a definitive TV run, but for Colin (fired), McCoy (cancelled), and McGann (failed pilot), the sky's the limit.
Now Big Finish has the keys to the kingdom. There's very little of the the franchise that is off limits, be it licensing or actor participation. On the one hand, it's given us things we could only have dreamed of even back at the start of the 2010s. In exchange, though, with the series revitalized, and Big Finish having become a Bigger Finish, they have to tread on safer ground.
Personally I prefer the wild west approach of the early days, but there's still plenty of things that peak my interest. I suppose my ideal would be getting early MR-style stories still, just with Tom and Tennant added to the mix.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2019 21:03:55 GMT
I don't buy as much BF as I used to. I started listening around the time the 8th Doctor story Storm Warning was broadcast on what was then known as BBC 7. I feel nowadays the stories are not as daring as they used to be, far too many epic boxsets for 8th Doctor about a villain with a master plan that will destroy the universe. & my pet hates, releases that are just filling the gaps & characters meeting other characters in what amounts to little more than fan fiction.
They have the licence now to use more 'nu who' characters but sometimes I feel they are not quite sure what to do with them.
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