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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 27, 2020 11:02:08 GMT
I had a rule that meant I wasn't going to post on this thread, but having watched a bit of the empty furore of the last few days (only a bit, the weather has been too good, the garden needs work and life is too short!) I think we now have proof that lockdown has driven the country collectively barmy and vindictive and our glorious media are the ones most affected. We really do need a bit of perspective sometimes.
Was he wrong? Obviously. Should he have resigned? Obviously.
(I make no moral judgements, why should I, this is all about politics, not morals and politically speaking of course he was wrong and should have resigned. Or even better, been promptly sacked - there would have been votes in it. Cynical? Never! )
Would he be getting the same treatment if he held the same post and had done the same journey and had previously led the Remain campaign instead...? Oh yes of course, none of this is personal... Yeh right! (And I say that as a Remain voter who still deeply regrets the loss of the best PM of this century so far, as a result of that referendum.)
Now, having broken my own rule, I will instantly ban myself before the howling mob turns on me. It's clearly what people expect.
It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people that have not been able to be at the deathbeds of their loved ones because they followed the rules. It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people who have not been able to go to the funeral of their dead family members because they followed the rules. Would he be getting the same treatment if he had led the remain campaign? So you're bringing Brexit into this. Quite frankly that is offensive, we have made a lot of sacrifices over the past weeks, not just because these are the rules but because it is the right thing to do. Who cares about Brexit now? You may want to dismissively refer to us as a 'howling mob' but we are not. We are angry because this makes all the sacrifices & hardship we have endured pointless when someone who was a key architect of those rules does whatever the hell he wants without any repercussions. You are free to express your opinion but to use terms like "empty furore" & that we are "collectively barmy and vindictive" is some of the most offensive & out of touch things I have heard about this shameful business.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 27, 2020 11:30:09 GMT
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on May 27, 2020 12:20:01 GMT
Funny, I had actually been thinking about that this morning. Surely her employers can't be happy about her publishing a (deliberately?) misleading account of what happened, plus I don't know if she is in the National Union of Journalists and if they have an ethics policy, but she surely breached it if there is.
I think the pressure should be on her and the editor of The Spectator every bit as much as on Cummings and Johnston
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 12:31:00 GMT
I had a rule that meant I wasn't going to post on this thread, but having watched a bit of the empty furore of the last few days (only a bit, the weather has been too good, the garden needs work and life is too short!) I think we now have proof that lockdown has driven the country collectively barmy and vindictive and our glorious media are the ones most affected. We really do need a bit of perspective sometimes.
Was he wrong? Obviously. Should he have resigned? Obviously.
(I make no moral judgements, why should I, this is all about politics, not morals and politically speaking of course he was wrong and should have resigned. Or even better, been promptly sacked - there would have been votes in it. Cynical? Never! )
Would he be getting the same treatment if he held the same post and had done the same journey and had previously led the Remain campaign instead...? Oh yes of course, none of this is personal... Yeh right! (And I say that as a Remain voter who still deeply regrets the loss of the best PM of this century so far, as a result of that referendum.)
Now, having broken my own rule, I will instantly ban myself before the howling mob turns on me. It's clearly what people expect.
It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people that have not been able to be at the deathbeds of their loved ones because they followed the rules. It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people who have not been able to go to the funeral of their dead family members because they followed the rules. Would he be getting the same treatment if he had led the remain campaign? So you're bringing Brexit into this. Quite frankly that is offensive, we have made a lot of sacrifices over the past weeks, not just because these are the rules but because it is the right thing to do. Who cares about Brexit now? You may want to dismissively refer to us as a 'howling mob' but we are not. We are angry because this makes all the sacrifices & hardship we have endured pointless when someone who was a key architect of those rules does whatever the hell he wants without any repercussions. You are free to express your opinion but to use terms like "empty furore" & that we are "collectively barmy and vindictive" is some of the most offensive & out of touch things I have heard about this shameful business. You use sentences like 'There is no excuses now, if you vote Tory after this you are just as vile & morally empty as those who govern' - when you know there are people here who have views other than your own - which is pretty offensive to any poster here who doesn't share all of your strongly held political beliefs.
What Cummings did was wrong. He is another arrogant politician. You quote Daily Mail, of all things. Do you then agree with the reporters who were literally climbing over each other to get a photo of him, completely ignoring the 2 metres social distancing rule?
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 27, 2020 12:52:51 GMT
It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people that have not been able to be at the deathbeds of their loved ones because they followed the rules. It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people who have not been able to go to the funeral of their dead family members because they followed the rules. Would he be getting the same treatment if he had led the remain campaign? So you're bringing Brexit into this. Quite frankly that is offensive, we have made a lot of sacrifices over the past weeks, not just because these are the rules but because it is the right thing to do. Who cares about Brexit now? You may want to dismissively refer to us as a 'howling mob' but we are not. We are angry because this makes all the sacrifices & hardship we have endured pointless when someone who was a key architect of those rules does whatever the hell he wants without any repercussions. You are free to express your opinion but to use terms like "empty furore" & that we are "collectively barmy and vindictive" is some of the most offensive & out of touch things I have heard about this shameful business. You use sentences like 'There is no excuses now, if you vote Tory after this you are just as vile & morally empty as those who govern' - when you know there are people here who have views other than your own - which is pretty offensive to any poster here who doesn't share all of your strongly held political beliefs.
What Cummings did was wrong. He is another arrogant politician. You quote Daily Mail, of all things. Do you then agree with the reporters who were literally climbing over each other to get a photo of him, completely ignoring the 2 metres social distancing rule?
If people do find what I said about voting Tory offensive and/or disagree they are of course free to express that opinion here on this forum in this thread by responding, as I have done in respect of number13's post. But I also of course explicitly said that number13 is free to express their opinion. Yes I did quote the Daily Mail "of all things", I can quote whatever I want to in respect of exemplars of opinion on this & I find it interesting that traditionally right wing media seems to be against Cummings as well. For example Julia Hartley Brewer recently retweeted Ash Sarkar! As for the 2 metre rule we should all be observing it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 13:48:40 GMT
I had a rule that meant I wasn't going to post on this thread, but having watched a bit of the empty furore of the last few days (only a bit, the weather has been too good, the garden needs work and life is too short!) I think we now have proof that lockdown has driven the country collectively barmy and vindictive and our glorious media are the ones most affected. We really do need a bit of perspective sometimes.
Was he wrong? Obviously. Should he have resigned? Obviously.
(I make no moral judgements, why should I, this is all about politics, not morals and politically speaking of course he was wrong and should have resigned. Or even better, been promptly sacked - there would have been votes in it. Cynical? Never! )
Would he be getting the same treatment if he held the same post and had done the same journey and had previously led the Remain campaign instead...? Oh yes of course, none of this is personal... Yeh right! (And I say that as a Remain voter who still deeply regrets the loss of the best PM of this century so far, as a result of that referendum.)
Now, having broken my own rule, I will instantly ban myself before the howling mob turns on me. It's clearly what people expect.
This has nothing to do with how a person voted during the Brexit campaign or political allegiance. This has everything to do with a man who helped bring about the Lockdown rules the vast majority abided by...and blithely ignored them on multiple occasions (and he wasn't the first). This has everything to do with people paying an emotional toll for following the rules (I've seen a family grieve at the funeral of a loved one separately and via live feed..and I never want to see that again), then seeing those rules were actually open to interpretation. This has everything to do with a man who hasn't expressed the slightest regret for breaking those rules. This has everything to do with the lies told to justify his actions. This has everything to do with the Prime Minister of this country and members of the Government going out of their way to defend the indefensible. This has everything to do with a lack of simple morality or empathy. And for the record...I voted Remain in the Referendum, I didn't vote Tory in the General Election and I still would have expressed the same feelings of disgust via email last night to my MP had Dominic Cummings led the Remain campaign or been in the employ of a Labour Government who stood firmly behind him.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on May 27, 2020 14:17:40 GMT
I had a rule that meant I wasn't going to post on this thread, but having watched a bit of the empty furore of the last few days (only a bit, the weather has been too good, the garden needs work and life is too short!) I think we now have proof that lockdown has driven the country collectively barmy and vindictive and our glorious media are the ones most affected. We really do need a bit of perspective sometimes.
Was he wrong? Obviously. Should he have resigned? Obviously.
(I make no moral judgements, why should I, this is all about politics, not morals and politically speaking of course he was wrong and should have resigned. Or even better, been promptly sacked - there would have been votes in it. Cynical? Never! )
Would he be getting the same treatment if he held the same post and had done the same journey and had previously led the Remain campaign instead...? Oh yes of course, none of this is personal... Yeh right! (And I say that as a Remain voter who still deeply regrets the loss of the best PM of this century so far, as a result of that referendum.)
Now, having broken my own rule, I will instantly ban myself before the howling mob turns on me. It's clearly what people expect.
This has nothing to do with how a person voted during the Brexit campaign or political allegiance. This has everything to do with a man who helped bring about the Lockdown rules the vast majority abided by...and blithely ignored them on multiple occasions (and he wasn't the first). This has everything to do with people paying an emotional toll for following the rules (I've seen a family grieve at the funeral of a loved one separately and via live feed..and I never want to see that again), then seeing those rules were actually open to interpretation. This has everything to do with a man who hasn't expressed the slightest regret for breaking those rules. This has everything to do with the lies told to justify his actions. This has everything to do with the Prime Minister of this country and members of the Government going out of their way to defend the indefensible. This has everything to do with a lack of simple morality or empathy. And for the record...I voted Remain in the Referendum, I didn't vote Tory in the General Election and I still would have expressed the same feelings of disgust via email last night to my MP had Dominic Cummings led the Remain campaign or been in the employ of a Labour Government who stood firmly behind him. Absolutely. It is not about party politics, people are not divided on party lines. It is about right and wrong, hypocrisy and double standards, the belief that no one is above the law and we should all be equal before it.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 27, 2020 16:19:51 GMT
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811
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Post by lidar2 on May 27, 2020 16:21:23 GMT
Former BF star & brother of Deborah, Giles Watling MP has come out for Cummings to resign
Nice to see the BF star doing the decent thing
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 17:07:23 GMT
As someone who voted Tory the past couple of occasions, plus in favour of Brexit, and will probably still do so again, I must be quite vile and immoral! But as even Julia Hartley-Brewer who admits she likes Dominic, agrees - he needs to go over this. If this was a Cabinet Minister we were talking about, that person would have been sacked a couple of days ago, on the advice of Dominic himself, most likely. Quite simply, he has moved outside of the remit of the backroom Special Advisor, who should not become the story, nor take centre stage, nor address the press directly. People are concerned as to what it demonstrates of Boris Johnson's fitness for office, that he feels unable to manage without this SPAD in particular (and whether the allegations made regarding both Mary Wakefield and another woman (the claimant) being touched under the table by Boris at a Spectator function years ago, are true. Mary denied it happened not long ago when it surfaced, but who knows? Does Boris dare not sack him?) The issue is becoming blown out of proportion precisely because Dominic refuses to go and Boris refuses to sack him, despite them knowing just how much it deflects and weakens his authority and discredits the official lock-down guidance.
One final thing of note: Boris has long been a proponent of 'Dead Cat Strategy' or 'Deadcatting'. I think they are banking on this becoming yesterdays news as something else takes its place in the headlines, so why lose your job over it?
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Post by number13 on May 27, 2020 17:16:21 GMT
I had a rule that meant I wasn't going to post on this thread, but having watched a bit of the empty furore of the last few days (only a bit, the weather has been too good, the garden needs work and life is too short!) I think we now have proof that lockdown has driven the country collectively barmy and vindictive and our glorious media are the ones most affected. We really do need a bit of perspective sometimes.
Was he wrong? Obviously. Should he have resigned? Obviously.
(I make no moral judgements, why should I, this is all about politics, not morals and politically speaking of course he was wrong and should have resigned. Or even better, been promptly sacked - there would have been votes in it. Cynical? Never! )
Would he be getting the same treatment if he held the same post and had done the same journey and had previously led the Remain campaign instead...? Oh yes of course, none of this is personal... Yeh right! (And I say that as a Remain voter who still deeply regrets the loss of the best PM of this century so far, as a result of that referendum.)
Now, having broken my own rule, I will instantly ban myself before the howling mob turns on me. It's clearly what people expect.
It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people that have not been able to be at the deathbeds of their loved ones because they followed the rules. It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people who have not been able to go to the funeral of their dead family members because they followed the rules. Would he be getting the same treatment if he had led the remain campaign? So you're bringing Brexit into this. Quite frankly that is offensive, we have made a lot of sacrifices over the past weeks, not just because these are the rules but because it is the right thing to do. Who cares about Brexit now? You may want to dismissively refer to us as a 'howling mob' but we are not. We are angry because this makes all the sacrifices & hardship we have endured pointless when someone who was a key architect of those rules does whatever the hell he wants without any repercussions. You are free to express your opinion but to use terms like "empty furore" & that we are "collectively barmy and vindictive" is some of the most offensive & out of touch things I have heard about this shameful business. For the avoidance of doubt, I was not commenting on or referring to anyone or posts by anyone on this forum, but to the reaction (imo ludicrous over-reaction) of the media and "public opinion".
Which was, I hoped, clear in my earlier post.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 27, 2020 17:31:00 GMT
It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people that have not been able to be at the deathbeds of their loved ones because they followed the rules. It's all about politics, not morals? Say that to the people who have not been able to go to the funeral of their dead family members because they followed the rules. Would he be getting the same treatment if he had led the remain campaign? So you're bringing Brexit into this. Quite frankly that is offensive, we have made a lot of sacrifices over the past weeks, not just because these are the rules but because it is the right thing to do. Who cares about Brexit now? You may want to dismissively refer to us as a 'howling mob' but we are not. We are angry because this makes all the sacrifices & hardship we have endured pointless when someone who was a key architect of those rules does whatever the hell he wants without any repercussions. You are free to express your opinion but to use terms like "empty furore" & that we are "collectively barmy and vindictive" is some of the most offensive & out of touch things I have heard about this shameful business. For the avoidance of doubt, I was not commenting on or referring to anyone or posts by anyone on this forum, but to the reaction (imo ludicrous over-reaction) of the media and "public opinion".
Which was, I hoped, clear in my earlier post. I didn't take it to mean you were being specific about this forum, but "public opinion" is not some vague thing especially when in respect of this pandemic when people have lost their lives & people have made real sacrifices that have led to some heartbreaking decisions. & the opinions of the people on this forum obviously make up this "public opinion" & this so-called "collectively barmy and vindictive" country. The people on this forum are not somehow separate from the rest of the country in their thoughts on this matter, we're living through it too! It's odd that someone can make those statements & say oh obviously I didn't mean you lot just this ambiguous thing called "public opinion". There are real people behind what you dismissively call a "howling mob" & personal tragedy behind what you cynically blame as some kind of in your own words "ludicrous overreaction", a remainer attack on a brexiter. People may disagree but to call it a "ludicrous overreaction" is insulting.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 20:19:31 GMT
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 27, 2020 20:38:15 GMT
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Post by sherlock on May 27, 2020 21:13:21 GMT
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 28, 2020 5:41:18 GMT
Hopefully we will soon find out why she said on Tuesday night see you tomorrow & was listed in the TV guides as appearing on last night's edition.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 28, 2020 7:24:13 GMT
So we all going to be using the dubious track & trace?
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 28, 2020 8:18:52 GMT
Oh dear.
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Post by johnhurtdoctor on May 28, 2020 11:30:53 GMT
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Post by number13 on May 28, 2020 13:17:26 GMT
I posted with a cynical and flippant tone yesterday but I don't underestimate the degree to which life has changed for all of us because of the virus. In my case this has meant an even sharper focus on what really matters in life and a tendency to dismiss everything else as unimportant, the latest political scandals included.
For some people, the changes to life caused by the virus did not begin with the lockdown and won't end with it, until a vaccine is found (if ever). I'm not complaining about this (what would be the point?), just stating it. But my efforts to do what really matters during this crisis are in no way diminished for me by anyone else doing the wrong things, regardless of who or how supposedly 'important' they are.
I'm sorry if I seemed to lack empathy and I know I was cynical; where politics and the media are concerned I usually am. On which note, since I don't feel I can contribute as I used to, I will be taking a break for a while. Keep well everyone.
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