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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2019 15:19:16 GMT
Contrarily, I like it the more I think about it, and I wish JJ had had the whole trilogy instead of burning the middle chapter on a guy who had no interest in being part of a story larger than himself. I just honestly can't imagine seeing TLJ and thinking that about Johnson. He leaves the space wide open for new storytelling by the end of the film, and then Abrams doesn't pick up on those threads. Personally, at least, I think the idea of not having the Emperor/Vader dynamic anymore would have been really interesting. So did Johnson. But then Abrams just literally brought the actual Emperor back, with no explanation, and did a bunch of RotJ scenes again, despite everything. So JJ respects the last Star Wars film as much as Johnson does then. Johnson ignored the plot threads of Force Awakens to make his boring mess of a movie.
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Post by Digi on Dec 30, 2019 15:23:08 GMT
I'm going to see 'The Rise of Skywalker' today! I hope to have a good time watching it at the cinema. I'll share my thoughts on the movie later on. Tim. Enjoy! It's certainly not perfect, but it is fun!
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Post by randomcomments on Dec 30, 2019 18:05:09 GMT
I just honestly can't imagine seeing TLJ and thinking that about Johnson. He leaves the space wide open for new storytelling by the end of the film, and then Abrams doesn't pick up on those threads. Personally, at least, I think the idea of not having the Emperor/Vader dynamic anymore would have been really interesting. So did Johnson. But then Abrams just literally brought the actual Emperor back, with no explanation, and did a bunch of RotJ scenes again, despite everything. To be clear: I don't hate TLJ. There are a few things in it that I actually quite like -- including the Luke storyline that has become a focal point for a lot of the moaning about it. But between the (needlessly) butt-busting runtime, and a number of other story choices, it just doesn't add up to a great deal for me, and I feel like it wasted a lot of the potential set up in the first film. I don't hate it, I just find it very firmly middle-of-the-road, and would rank it somewhere near the lower middle of the pack in terms of all the SW films to date. What I was getting at though, was the production process and specifically how it seems like Johnson is just not suited to be part of projects that he isn't personally in charge of. By all accounts that I've read, Johnson's approach to the story was not at all collaborative. Rather, he came at it as 'this is the movie I want to do, and I don't care what happened Part 1.' My understanding is that he already had his story for TLJ scripted before they were even done hashing out the story for TFA. He had access to the dailies to TFA, which were used to make small tweaks so that TLJ wasn't completely an island, but it was just the story he wanted regardless of whatever else was going on in the trilogy. To me, that is absolutely the wrong way to come at one of these movies. When you're building a trilogy, you can't be a lone wolf, you're part of a collaborative process that's bigger than yourself. I don't think RJ is a bad filmmaker. I think the films over which he had total control, like Looper or Knives Out, are proof positive that he's actually a really terrific talent. And it's for that reason that in spite of TLJ I'm still looking forward to the trilogy of SW films that he's supposed to be making; I can't wait to see what he comes up with when he has control over the whole canvas of a trilogy. But I do still think that involving him in the sequel trilogy was a mistake. Despite any weaknesses in TFA, it laid seeds for the next two films. TROS feels (to me) like the fulfillment of those promises, which TLJ completely ignored. Everything I've heard about Johnson suggests he was actually much better at collaborating? Certainly with the Story Group, at least. I think you may be misunderstanding the timeline for making these movies. He was hired, and it was his job to be working in the scripts of the next film, before TFA was finished. That he had drafted things based on reading the TFA script, talking to Abrams and the Story Group, and seeing the dailies is a feature, not a bug. Also Abrams was happy to change a few details in the last scenes at his request, (switching which droid goes with Rey and removing the floating rocks Abrams had drafted to be surrounding Luke), so we know they had contact. He literally couldn't have scripted his story in advance, without TFA, because just on the basic level the major characters are introduced in TFA, and there's no way he'd have just guessed and hit on the same figures or anything. There are lots of interviews where they talk about how he bounced lots of ideas back and forth with the Story Group to work out where to take this (he moved to be closer to the creative crew), and there are contrasting ones about Abrams just not really meeting with them much and working from a different city.
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Dec 31, 2019 0:36:55 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 5:38:26 GMT
Come on , give us a smile 😉🤓 you still went to see it once a fan always good or bad . Once is more than enough this trilogy awful in my opinion utter piffle, bad acting, poorly written character arcs, this film had plot holes the size of a black hole & lazy writing with Reys godlike jedi power's, not once did i have goosebumps & the action scenes fell flat, lightsaber battles clunky with Rey swinging it like a baseball bat, when i watch The Mandalorian I'll smile i will even dance with joy that this is why i love Star Wars. I ain't angry as a toxic fan I'm angy because Star Wars means a lot to me & has been my rock duing some very dark times in my life, to see Disney & Kathleen Kennedy butcher George Lucas legacy is heartbreaking, the only new film i enjoyed to date was Rogue One. And if rumours true about Keanu Reeves playing Revan then i may actually start believing in God. Glad you found it entertaining though fo me this year been shocking for movies, thankfully The Boys, Swamp Thing, The Witcher, Lost In Space delivered top notch entertainment. I find Keanu very very wooden
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Post by glutamodo on Dec 31, 2019 6:23:29 GMT
It was following Force Awakens that I started to back off on this franchise. I have a copy of Last Jedi somewhere but I've never watched it. I was put off by changes in showrunners. The whole "Too Many Cooks" thing. Complain legitimately about elements of the Prequel Trilogy, Lucas was still steering that ship. After Disney takes over, one movie goes one way, the next another, and the final one has to backpedal, retcon and all that... It seems like they tried to hide this by moving RoS along so fast that one doesn't stop to think, and apparently, that worked, (if you actually believe the Rotten Tomatoes Audience Score),, but among "thinking" viewers, it seems that no one likes this movie, and since I fall into that category, I would rather not see it. I'm not sure if you're being tongue in cheek or incredibly pompous when you describe yourself that way? Anyway regardless of your intent, I read it as tongue in cheek and had a chuckle to myself I don't know if was exactly tongue in cheek, but it was NOT intended to be pompous...
Okay, I'd seen enough reviews online among "nerds" that actually analyze the plot, which I've always done. And that crowd rather hates this movie.
No I did at no point want to insult anyone! And I apologize if it came out that way. I understand that a lot of moviegoers want a cinematic roller coaster ride and I'm glad if they have that... and it sounds like this movie moves along in such a manner. I know myself well enough to know that I can say that... I can't help but delve a little deeper, and when I read/see/hear reviews along these lines, I know they are often saying the sort of things that I myself would come up with.
As I said, I had already decided some time back, that having Multiple Showrunners was might not be a good thing, and backed off on the franchise. While I'm not a huge fan of JJA, I do rather think this trilogy could have turned a lot better had one person guided it all along.
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Post by Timelord007 on Dec 31, 2019 8:05:07 GMT
Paplatines return was the idea of Kathleen Kennedy apparently....enough said.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 10:01:12 GMT
Paplatines return was the idea of Kathleen Kennedy apparently....enough said. If Star Wars is going to continue it needs a 'showrunner' like Kevin Feige. Don't make a trilogy for a quick buck, plan it! Have a vision & then allow others to work within that vision.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Dec 31, 2019 12:01:53 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Dec 31, 2019 15:30:25 GMT
Thanks Tim. I have tried to strike a neutral view with these films myself, but like your review of 'The Last Jedi', I feel you give a clearer case than many of the weaknesses, without the 'baggage' of the committed fan. You always look for the positives first and foremost in your blog posts, so I think, If Tim Bradley has issues with something, then its more than a gut feeling or bias. Keep up these well articulated reviews - its all constructive and worth reading.
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Post by Tim Bradley on Dec 31, 2019 17:50:39 GMT
Thanks Tim. I have tried to strike a neutral view with these films myself, but like your review of 'The Last Jedi', I feel you give a clearer case than many of the weaknesses, without the 'baggage' of the committed fan. You always look for the positives first and foremost in your blog posts, so I think, If Tim Bradley has issues with something, then its more than a gut feeling or bias. Keep up these well articulated reviews - its all constructive and worth reading. Hi Daver.
Thanks for your kind words.
Tim.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2020 16:43:17 GMT
OMG. I did it. I saw it. What a mess. Everyone involved in this trilogy should be ashamed of themselves.
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Post by notawerewolf99 on Jan 4, 2020 19:45:09 GMT
I loved this film or what it was meant to be. It's clear Disney ovverreacted to Solo's performance in light of The Last Jedi and wanted to 'refurbish' the brand, leading Abbrams unable to find the shape of the film without Carrie Fisher or finalise those story and character beats.
I'm not mad, more saddened then anything else.
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Post by muckypup on Jan 4, 2020 23:12:34 GMT
Last Jedi was the beginning of the end, i loathe & detest that movie, only good thing was when my cousin jokingly brought me blu ray to wind me up & i smashed it to bits with a bat infront of him. I'm ignoring this trilogy & sticking to Manderlorian & Kenobi for my future Star Wars fix. dude you should watch this when it comes out on dvd/digital...…...it goes a long way to dilute the bad taste TLJ left. its not perfect but its the movie last jedi should have been. I promise you, you wont hate it...…..you may not love it but its a good star wars movie and doesn't stick two fingers up at you like Ryan Johnson does, you only have to watch Knives out to see that guy sucks at making entertaining movies.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2020 23:59:17 GMT
Last Jedi was the beginning of the end, i loathe & detest that movie, only good thing was when my cousin jokingly brought me blu ray to wind me up & i smashed it to bits with a bat infront of him. I'm ignoring this trilogy & sticking to Manderlorian & Kenobi for my future Star Wars fix. dude you should watch this when it comes out on dvd/digital...…...it goes a long way to dilute the bad taste TLJ left. its not perfect but its the movie last jedi should have been. I promise you, you wont hate it...…..you may not love it but its a good star wars movie and doesn't stick two fingers up at you like Ryan Johnson does, you only have to watch Knives out to see that guy sucks at making entertaining movies. Knives Out was one of the best films of 2019.
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 5, 2020 9:50:04 GMT
Last Jedi was the beginning of the end, i loathe & detest that movie, only good thing was when my cousin jokingly brought me blu ray to wind me up & i smashed it to bits with a bat infront of him. I'm ignoring this trilogy & sticking to Manderlorian & Kenobi for my future Star Wars fix. dude you should watch this when it comes out on dvd/digital...…...it goes a long way to dilute the bad taste TLJ left. its not perfect but its the movie last jedi should have been. I promise you, you wont hate it...…..you may not love it but its a good star wars movie and doesn't stick two fingers up at you like Ryan Johnson does, you only have to watch Knives out to see that guy sucks at making entertaining movies. I'll never ever watch this trilogy again, shocking film however the damage was done with TLJ so this was a damage limitation movie, i find this trilogy painful despite TFA setting up some interesting ideas. Rey become Jedi Jesus, awful, Kylo awful, battle scenes, bland, saber scenes, terrible, bad acting, nah sorry I'm completely ignoring this trilogy, it concludes with ROTJ for me. Just completed Jedi Fallen Order on PS4 & that story had more drama & emotion than this trilogy put together, I'd love see this game adapted into a film.
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Post by muckypup on Jan 5, 2020 11:44:19 GMT
dude you should watch this when it comes out on dvd/digital...…...it goes a long way to dilute the bad taste TLJ left. its not perfect but its the movie last jedi should have been. I promise you, you wont hate it...…..you may not love it but its a good star wars movie and doesn't stick two fingers up at you like Ryan Johnson does, you only have to watch Knives out to see that guy sucks at making entertaining movies. Knives Out was one of the best films of 2019. One of the worst things I have ever sat through, canna agree it’s lame with a twist that’s not a twist........ I really hated it...... but glad you enjoyed it,
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Post by muckypup on Jan 5, 2020 11:48:54 GMT
dude you should watch this when it comes out on dvd/digital...…...it goes a long way to dilute the bad taste TLJ left. its not perfect but its the movie last jedi should have been. I promise you, you wont hate it...…..you may not love it but its a good star wars movie and doesn't stick two fingers up at you like Ryan Johnson does, you only have to watch Knives out to see that guy sucks at making entertaining movies. I'll never ever watch this trilogy again, shocking film however the damage was done with TLJ so this was a damage limitation movie, i find this trilogy painful despite TFA setting up some interesting ideas. Rey become Jedi Jesus, awful, Kylo awful, battle scenes, bland, saber scenes, terrible, bad acting, nah sorry I'm completely ignoring this trilogy, it concludes with ROTJ for me. Just completed Jedi Fallen Order on PS4 & that story had more drama & emotion than this trilogy put together, I'd love see this game adapted into a film. I just finish that too.....was great, but a bit short surprised at how small the levels were and how much going over explored ground it required....... Game of the year? Not sure about that one..... but brilliant what we had, and bd comes 2nd to baby yoda in cuteness
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Post by Timelord007 on Jan 5, 2020 14:01:43 GMT
I'll never ever watch this trilogy again, shocking film however the damage was done with TLJ so this was a damage limitation movie, i find this trilogy painful despite TFA setting up some interesting ideas. Rey become Jedi Jesus, awful, Kylo awful, battle scenes, bland, saber scenes, terrible, bad acting, nah sorry I'm completely ignoring this trilogy, it concludes with ROTJ for me. Just completed Jedi Fallen Order on PS4 & that story had more drama & emotion than this trilogy put together, I'd love see this game adapted into a film. I just finish that too.....was great, but a bit short surprised at how small the levels were and how much going over explored ground it required....... Game of the year? Not sure about that one..... but brilliant what we had, and bd comes 2nd to baby yoda in cuteness Issues i had with jumping & combat despite upgrades i never felt Cal on par with bosses, hopefully if they do a sequel they improve upon this, BD awesome great story, bit short like you said & just needs few tweeks, ending was good.
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Post by sherlock on Jan 5, 2020 18:17:25 GMT
Well I enjoyed that.
The worst parts was the apologising for TLJ. Rey as a Palpatine (come on, really!?), Luke saying throwing the saber is no way to treat a Jedi weapon, Rose being sidelined and Snoke being a puppet of Palpatine all along. For goodness sake.
Anyway that’s the negative out the way. The action was thrilling, the twists kept coming and the ending was very pleasing. Leia’s storyline was obviously restricted but they managed it well, and Kylo Ren’s story paid off nicely. Aside from the family reveal, Rey’s arc worked well, Finn got some nice stuff with his fellow rebel stormtroopers and the Force was used creatively.
It’s not a perfect movie, there’s perhaps too many plates spinning, but I enjoyed it.
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