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Post by slithe on Feb 4, 2020 19:15:37 GMT
Princip and Franz Ferdinand...
A good 7th Doctor story there perhaps. The Doctor wanting to 'stop' the assassination but knows that 'time has to take its path'... Would also be good to see how the two characters interact - Princip, the fanatic Black Hand Nationalist against, who history now canonises, as a 'saintly' Franz Ferdinand.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 4, 2020 19:19:13 GMT
Princip and Franz Ferdinand... A good 7th Doctor story there perhaps. The Doctor wanting to 'stop' the assassination but knows that 'time has to take its path'... Would also be good to see how the two characters interact - Princip, the fanatic Black Hand Nationalist against, who history now canonises, as a 'saintly' Franz Ferdinand. If nothing else, the assassination itself is such a bizarre chain of events it kinda deserves more attention.
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Post by grinch on Feb 4, 2020 19:19:46 GMT
Princip and Franz Ferdinand... A good 7th Doctor story there perhaps. The Doctor wanting to 'stop' the assassination but knows that 'time has to take its path'... Would also be good to see how the two characters interact - Princip, the fanatic Black Hand Nationalist against, who history now canonises, as a 'saintly' Franz Ferdinand. Could see such a story ending with the (admittedly very generalised) conclusion that: ‘There are no heroes. Nor villains. There are just... people.” A summation of how we view certain figures if you will and how they’re perceived years after their time.
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Post by slithe on Feb 4, 2020 19:22:25 GMT
Princip and Franz Ferdinand... A good 7th Doctor story there perhaps. The Doctor wanting to 'stop' the assassination but knows that 'time has to take its path'... Would also be good to see how the two characters interact - Princip, the fanatic Black Hand Nationalist against, who history now canonises, as a 'saintly' Franz Ferdinand. If nothing else, the assassination itself is such a bizarre chain of events it kinda deserves more attention. Exactly... It is one of 'those' points in history that everyone 'knows' (or claims to know about) but actually knows very little. DW could explore this quite well and come up with a meaty tale on it. I'd prefer it to be 7th who looks at it, but equally the 13th Doctor would also do it quite well too.
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Post by timegirl on Feb 6, 2020 21:16:32 GMT
4 meets Monty Python during Flying Circus and they ask him to join as a new member 😄 Not sure if it should be a pure historical or pseudo historical 🤔 Although 4 and Monty Python against the Daleks would be amazing!😀
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Post by timegirl on Feb 7, 2020 21:10:40 GMT
7 and Ace meet Frank L. Baum, author of the Wizard of Oz. 7 inspires him to come up the Wizard and Ace becomes the inspiration for Dorthy. They go on a wild adventure in the TARDIS together involving a Cyberman who chopped off his own limbs, an alien cat man, and scarecrow animated with alien tech😀
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Post by fingersmash on Feb 8, 2020 3:37:36 GMT
7 and Ace meet Frank L. Baum, author of the Wizard of Oz. 7 inspires him to come up the Wizard and Ace becomes the inspiration for Dorthy. They go on a wild adventure in the TARDIS together involving a Cyberman who chopped off his own limbs, an alien cat man, and scarecrow animated with alien tech😀 I'd much rather see that with Sixie and a more Dorothy Gale-esque companion. Granted, I'd much rather see a full on Wizard of Oz pastiche anyway.
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Post by timegirl on Feb 8, 2020 4:21:25 GMT
7 and Ace meet Frank L. Baum, author of the Wizard of Oz. 7 inspires him to come up the Wizard and Ace becomes the inspiration for Dorthy. They go on a wild adventure in the TARDIS together involving a Cyberman who chopped off his own limbs, an alien cat man, and scarecrow animated with alien tech😀 I'd much rather see that with Sixie and a more Dorothy Gale-esque companion. Granted, I'd much rather see a full on Wizard of Oz pastiche anyway. Sixie would be good too but Ace was actually based on Dorthy in the wizard of Oz, her real name is Dorthy and it’s established in Dragonfire she ended up on Ice-world because of a space storm blew her there😀
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Post by fingersmash on Feb 8, 2020 5:01:47 GMT
I'd much rather see that with Sixie and a more Dorothy Gale-esque companion. Granted, I'd much rather see a full on Wizard of Oz pastiche anyway. Sixie would be good too but Ace was actually based on Dorthy in the wizard of Oz, her real name is Dorthy and it’s established in Dragonfire she ended up on Ice-world because of a space storm blew her there😀 Much as I adore Ace, the Dorothy Gale comparison has always felt like something of a stretch to me. No similar character journey or personality traits, just a name and a tidbit of backstory.
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Post by timegirl on Feb 8, 2020 5:09:34 GMT
Sixie would be good too but Ace was actually based on Dorthy in the wizard of Oz, her real name is Dorthy and it’s established in Dragonfire she ended up on Ice-world because of a space storm blew her there😀 Much as I adore Ace, the Dorothy Gale comparison has always felt like something of a stretch to me. No similar character journey or personality traits, just a name and a tidbit of backstory. Fair enough 😉
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Post by Thebogiehole on Feb 8, 2020 10:54:15 GMT
Samantha Reed Smith?
Tegan Jovanka talks about having studied the Beaumont Children mystery?
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Post by fitzoliverj on Feb 8, 2020 16:20:31 GMT
4 meets Monty Python during Flying Circus and they ask him to join as a new member 😄 Not sure if it should be a pure historical or pseudo historical 🤔 Although 4 and Monty Python against the Daleks would be amazing!😀
I don't think this would work. I'm not sure how Pythonesque the Pythons are in real life - it's no good Graham Chapman telling a Dalek how ridiculous it is and that it should stop what it's doing, for example.
I think there's two ways this kind of idea would have to play out. Either select somebody who is a bona fide eccentric - Spike Milligan, say, or even revive a Douglas Adams-era idea and have the fourth Doctor team up with Tom Baker - or alternatively pinch the RTD idea for a Harry Potter-centric story, in which an alien creature was going to attach itself to J. K. Rowling and bring her imagination to life. That way you could have Gumbys or Pepperpot Ladies or what have you roaming the streets of London.
(I think I'd vote to go back a couple of years more, and have a third Doctor and UNIT story with Beachcomber and his cast of characters instead, though).
Incidentally, we know that BF are recording things years in advance. How long till they start producing material for release in 2034, when the copyright in T. H. White runs out? That way, they could do a story where he meets the Master. And if you don't know why that would be interesting, read this:
I'd love to know whether Terrance Dicks and Barry Letts had read this. Possibly Olaf Pooley mentioned it to them during recording of "Inferno", or they saw it in his CV?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2020 18:22:59 GMT
Whilst we had the likes of Marco Polo in Season 1 and then the Crusade with Richard the Lionheart, these were genuine Historical settings and not Pseudo History, i.e. with a SF element. In that regard, I prefer the idea of, say, King John being an impostor as in the Kings Demons, with the Tardis Crew never actually meeting historical figures, but acting in their periphery, if we are to play fast and loose, as opposed to Churchill utilising Daleks and Spitfires in space.
Red Dwarf neatly and consistently plays upon this by having the crew on the sidelines, grassy knoll style at Kennedy's assassination, or encountering versions of historical figures. Elvis Presley, Mother Teresa, for example, or mistaken identity in the case of Jesus. And then there was Dave Lister's passing encounter with 'Tonight's special guest star, Adolf Hitler'.
You get the idea, educate audiences about real historical figures, but don't stretch things by claiming that the fictional characters have had close encounters with them, and don't suggest that they were made aware of the possibility of travel in time and space in a police box. That's just far fetched.....
But then again, the Third Doctor was such an accomplished name dropper...but did the likes of 'old Boney' know who the Doctor really was, or indeed as speculated, was he just laying it on a bit as a raconteur?
Just an opinion. I think history is more credibly told where the protagonists don't get mixed up in big events and with key personages so often, Flashman style, unless the tongue is firmly in cheek.
Mind you, Sir Isaac Newton was convincingly incorporated in Circular Time, thanks to David Warner, so sometimes it works very well.
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Post by slithe on Feb 9, 2020 9:46:01 GMT
If Doctor Who is going to meet historical characters/figures, then I like to think that the series is bold enough/brave enough to present these people as 3D representations (i.e. Warts and All).
For example, Churchill is, always so far, seen as 'historic' Winston who helps to fight the Second World War and keep up morale. Yep, that was part of his character, but not all of it. I would love, and I hope the interview with the writer of Subterfuge implies that this will happen, if the stories focused on different aspects of the character. A story with the Doctor visiting the early 1950s, where Churchill was way past his prime and needed to be eased out of office would be interesting (Sixie suggesting retirement would be a good one) or Churchill authorising using force to put down strikers in Wales/Scotland would be another (the Third or Seventh would be good here) are things I'd like to see.
I get that this is a bit harder if the said historical figure has recently deceased, but history is not black and white (as the First Doctor shows Barbara in the Aztecs) and I'd love Doctor Who to go down that route. Would it be brave enough of BF to do something on the bombing of Dresden at the end of WWII and have the Doctor abrade Churchill/Harris for this, whilst at the same time showing that the Blitz was just as bad? As a history teacher I am tired of kids trying to identify 'goodies' and 'baddies' - it isn't clear cut and I think the more DW (and other mediums) can help break this down, the better.
Sorry, rant over.
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Post by grinch on Feb 9, 2020 13:24:13 GMT
Hieronymus Karl Friedrich, Freiherr von Münchhausen. The figure for whom the fictional Baron Münchhausen was based off. Considering his less than favourable reaction to how he was fictionalised I could see him being quite annoyed with the Doctor’s comparisons between him and the literary figure.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 13:38:04 GMT
Anyone mentioned Josephine Baker yet? We could have a story where the Doctor meets her at different points in her life, her early years as a dancer, working for the French Resistance, her contributions to the civil rights movement.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 16:32:48 GMT
I'd kinda love The Doctor to meet Carl Sagan. There's a speech in Rings Of Akhaten where Matt tells Clara about how we're all elements of suns that died billions of years ago, which lifts some of Carl's most famous work. A story where Carl gets involved scientifically would be great. He shouldn't be inspired by, or informed by, The Doctor though. Human genius and bravery is remarkable enough without needing to be given a sci-fi retcon. The story would need to be called Cosmos: We Are All Made Of Star Stuff, of course! Failing that, one of Sagan's most famed morals about the astonishing discoveries of the Ionians being forgotten and the progress of humanity's understanding of existence taking a massive leap only to stand still again would perhaps be the basis of an interesting story. A recurring theme of history, as happened in both China and the middle East is that they were the hotbeds of discovery only to be torn down by wars and then religion overruling science stifling advancement. I'm sure there are stories in there too. One of Neil DeGrasse Tyson's theories is that if the Chinese, Greeks or Syrians hadn't lost their way with progress and scientific advancement, man could have been on the moon hundreds of years earlier such was the rate of advancement at one time in those great civilizations. Imagine where we would be now if that had happened?
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Post by timegirl on Feb 11, 2020 16:41:03 GMT
Not sure which Doctor but it would be interesting for them to meet P. T. Barnum, but instead of an idealized portrayal like The Greatest Showman, they would show a more realistic portrayal including how he didn’t always do the best thing for his performers.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 17:00:35 GMT
Not sure which Doctor but it would be interesting for them to meet P. T. Barnum, but instead of an idealized portrayal like The Greatest Showman, they would show a more realistic portrayal including how he didn’t always do the best thing for his performers. The Short Trips Volume 3 2-disc set had a story with a less...Jackman Barnum in it. A Tom and Leela, I think.
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Post by Hieronymus on Feb 11, 2020 21:46:17 GMT
Cotton Mather - perfect for 10 and Martha. He was a New Englander who championed inoculation against disease, but was also involved in the Salem witch trials.
Alhazen (Ibn al-Haytham) - 10th-century Arab mathematician, astronomer, and physicist who is considered the Father of Optics for understanding the physics of vision, refraction, and explaining rainbows. He literally wrote the Book on Optics. He also ran afoul of leading political figures and had to live in hiding.
Carl Linnaeus - 18th-century Swedish botanist, zoologist, and physician. Attempted the first complete catalogue of all living things.
Rumi (Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rūmī) - 13th-century Persian poet, scholar, and mystic who spoke and wrote in four languages. His poetry is still read worldwide.
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