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Post by shallacatop on Jan 27, 2020 15:02:15 GMT
I'm trying to understand where this went wrong. It's all over the place.
The plot is identical to Anti-Genesis, albeit truncated. The marketing for it was completely wrong: there's no substantial Doctor & older Ace interaction. You get a line from Ace near the beginning, where she says the Doctor emotionally abused her, and then they share a scene at the end. It seems like those should carry enough weight to tick that box off, when that shouldn't be the case. The Dark Universe concept is just a background bit of plot that pops up every so often.
Primarily this is a character driven story, but it's got a lot going on and such little time to do everything in. This story screams box set or trilogy. There's a giant leap in time between Part 2 & 3 that should have been explored; it's the meat of the story yet it's just referred to in small chunks of dialogue. This should be the Doctor's story, given it's his equivalent of The Last Adventure, but his role his reduced. Arguably appropriate for this incarnations manipulating, but not very well executed in this. Mark Bonnar is great in this, but it's nothing new for the Eleven, which I understand it wasn't going to be, so it's puzzling to see his story take precedence over the Doctor and Ace's.
It isn't bad, it's just a mess. There's good stuff in it - the framing device, Sylvester's performance, Mark's performance, the lead-in to Doom Coalition - but there's just too much crammed in and it adversely affects the story and the listening experience. Missed opportunity is the phrase, I think.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 16:52:44 GMT
I'm trying to understand where this went wrong. It's all over the place. [...] It isn't bad, it's just a mess. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that!
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Jan 27, 2020 18:28:32 GMT
I'm trying to understand where this went wrong. It's all over the place. [...] It isn't bad, it's just a mess. I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that!
I think several of us have been saying the same thing.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2020 22:57:31 GMT
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that!
I think several of us have been saying the same thing. Yeah, but most of them were a bit more polite than calling it a mess!
Strangely enough, I am actually going to give Dark Universe another listen at the weekend as it might have caught me on a bad day and I'm in upbeat Big Finish form after the two really good 4DA stories released the following day. (I might just be clutching at straws, although I do usually give the MR release two listens during their release month anyway.)
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Post by IndieMacUser on Jan 29, 2020 13:33:34 GMT
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Jan 31, 2020 1:42:51 GMT
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
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Post by lidar2 on Feb 5, 2020 12:06:10 GMT
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Post by TinDogPodcast on Feb 8, 2020 18:59:32 GMT
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 15, 2020 8:12:04 GMT
I enjoyed this audio drama, tense, mysterious & suspenseful, Mark Bonar as Eleven is purely a joy to hear as he's utterly evil & relishes the chance to push the menacing aspects of the character.
And just what deal has The Doctor made? This has got me intrigued.
4/5.
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Post by nottenst on Feb 21, 2020 16:38:37 GMT
Just finished it today. I thought it was very well done, though I am intrigued by the deal the Doctor made with the Dark Universe denizens. I wonder when we'll find out about that.
Just listened to the first track of The Doom Coalition 1.1 "The Eleven" and this story does have the beginning of that. I am not sure whether everything else said between The 7th Doctor and The Eleven in The Doom Coalition really tracks with what happened in the the Dark Universe. In "The Eleven" the Doctor is being called back to see The President for another task (which we don't hear yet) while here sometime later he talks first with Ace and then the Dark Citizen before the story ends. [Have we learned what that task is/was in another release yet?]
Given the scale of what happened in Dark Universe and then what happens in The Doom Coalition, it seems that The Doctor's great plan in Dark Universe was pretty much a waste. (A smaller scale victory might have fit better.) Though I am not sure how much Gallifrey time passes between the Eleven's incarceration here and his escape in Doom Coalition.
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Post by slithe on Feb 23, 2020 10:56:40 GMT
I've re-listened to this. I thought I was bit harsh on it the first time around. In all honesty, I am glad I re-listened as I enjoyed it much more on a second go.
First, I think this is essentially two stories. You have the first half with the Eleven getting to the Gate and the second half with the aftermath of that. In reality, BF should be looking at the 2 parter format a bit more closely as the stronger stories from the MR have used that well - notably the recent Davison trilogy. I would have preferred two separate stories, which might have let the narrative be a bit cleverer.
Second, I think perhaps this could have done with another set of episodes in the middle. There is so much here, but it is packed too tightly. A lot of additional material could have given this time to 'breathe' and develop. It might have addressed some of the criticisms of this being a bit of a mess/all over the place.
Third, McCoy is on good form here. Usually, the 'jester' character would be annoying and lots of rolled Rs. Here, it works - McCoy comes across as very sinister here, and the malevolent incarnation is at its best. It is clear that this Doctor doesn't really care about the small things (as Ace points out) but the wider picture. BF should certainly do more stories with this incarnation travelling alone at the end of the regeneration.
The Theme Music still sounds a lot better than it has for a while. Lots of spangly additions and extended bits that were not present in the next release. Is this the framing device of where stories are in McCoy's era?
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Post by fantasticalice on Feb 23, 2020 17:40:30 GMT
A night of Dreams, scattered consciousness and half Nightmares. The Dark Universe has been accessed and I fear much in Reality has changed for the worse and can't be undone.
Day 1: Listened to what I thought were parts 1 and 2 and passed out either during part 2 or off and on.out Day 10 or later. Not entirely Sure:
This isn't right. I remember nothing here. Went back to the tail end of part 1 into Part 2. Did I fall asleep again? Yes. Have Passed out so many times I am disconnected from reality. I am unsure what is real and what is on the recording
I keep on going back to earlier sections. Catching bits and pieces while phasing in and out of consciousness. Can't tell what is real and what are halfway Dreams informed by the recording....
Day 11, Just Past Midnight... I think:
Every thing is blurring together. Wait? It was all in the Matrix? But how could that be possible? I mean I suppose it's.. But why would they need the Cardinal and Rasmus And everyone else if he's just faffin about in the Matrix?
Day 11 Just past 1am Restarted Part 3 and I think listened to Parts 3 and 4 without ever passing out... But I am unsure.
Oh God. Oh my Stars. It did Happen. Huge chunks of the Galaxy gone. Was it necessary just to capture one person?
This is the Doctor. Who knows once Time is changing it can't just be changed back perfectly. What damage has been done?
I am deeply unsettled. This just feels so so wrong. No wonder Ace has barely talked to him and avoids spending any time with him. She is clearly more comfortable with Rasmus and Ollistra. Who she doesn't trust at all.
I'm not sure I trust the Doctor any more either. This? This is the same Doctor who shows Bernice Summerfield the Universe? Who had a private Nervous Breakdown after living as a Human for several months?
Who did so much good and so much heroism and saved so many lives? Never Mind what he did before he regenerated. Is it all an act? What if way more has happened to Ace then we ever hear about?
And what deal did he make with the Dark Universe?
I fear that these events may lead to the first of more than one Time War.
What deal did you make Doctor?
You are supposed to fight the Monsters.... Not make deals with the most evil of all Monsters...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2020 17:16:04 GMT
I'm rather lovin it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2020 18:13:16 GMT
I was rather loving it. I found it genuinely stressful in the second half, it seemed to be all over the shop, especially in part 4.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Mar 15, 2020 10:57:03 GMT
I was surprised when it was announced that it wasn’t going to be a boxset and after listening to it I am even more surprised that it wasn’t a boxset.
In fact with questions to be answered regarding what drove the Doctor to do what he does in this story and what this story seems to set up, it really could have been part of the Seventh Doctor’s very own sixteen hour Dark Universe series.
So I have to wonder why Big Finish thought a main range release was the way to go with this? Do they no longer think the Seventh Doctor is marketable enough to sell a boxset or carry a separate range?
As for the Dark Universe MR release I enjoyed it, was impressed with the storytelling and the acting of all concerned, but on it’s own it makes the Seventh Doctor look exceptionally bad.
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Post by xlozdob on Mar 15, 2020 11:44:20 GMT
So I have to wonder why Big Finish thought a main range release was the way to go with this? Do they no longer think the Seventh Doctor is marketable enough to sell a boxset or carry a separate range? That would've been interesting. Perhaps they should have waited until the move from monthly releases? It would've been a great way to start the Seventh Doctor Adventures range.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2020 19:16:54 GMT
I started this today but i cant really comment and be fair on it as all the new stuff i listened to today have not stayed in my mind i do remember it having a good pace but at moment sticking to previous older tales till this vague tiredness has left me but thank God that BF have given me so much to choose from
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,812
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Post by lidar2 on Apr 17, 2020 18:08:02 GMT
Listened over the last couple of days.
I agree with other posters that it felt like eps 1, 2, 5 & 6 of a 6 parter rather than a 4 parter.
I won't rewrite what others have said - a good enough release but somehow a bit underwhelming and unsatisfying compared to what it might have been. The missing episodes 3 and 4 were what it needed.
As for the ending ... the jury's out. If we get a follow up and a payoff and see why the Dr did some kind of deal with the dark universe then it will be a great ending. If we never get the payoff and his supposed deal turns out to be a red herring included solely to contrive a conflict between him and Ace for the sake of it, then it will be a very poor ending. The ball's in your court, BF and Guy Adams,,,,
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Post by grinch on Jul 15, 2020 15:28:58 GMT
Thought I’d give this one a relisten considering I haven’t touched it since it was first released.
Definitely thought it was a lot better this time around although I still think it was far too big in scope and packed with too much material for its meagre two hour length. Definitely would have suited a boxset.
Take for example the brief reference to the Dark Universe’s version of the Cybermen. That’s all it is in this, a reference. Had this been a boxset you just know they would have made an appearance.
Personally, I think the main failings of this story isn’t necessarily in its material but rather how it was marketed. As many of us have already stated, it really isn’t the sort of the story they told us it was.
With what the ending presents us with, I can only presume (and hope) it’s paid off come the final adventures of the Seventh Doctor we’re soon to be presented with.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Jul 15, 2020 18:13:31 GMT
I actually wrote into the podcast to ask why this story wasn’t a box set.
However I wasn’t surprised my question wasn’t answered, but I would have been fully on board with a Seventh Doctor: Dark Universe series.
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