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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 9, 2020 22:30:04 GMT
So I don't intend this to be Twitter comments the thread, but this:
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Post by frisby78 on Feb 9, 2020 22:37:54 GMT
Chuffing brilliant stuff!
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Post by mark687 on Feb 9, 2020 22:47:40 GMT
Mixed feelings about that episode, if I’m honest. Some good bits, some not so good bits. I like that Yaz got more development but felt it came out of nowhere. Maybe they should have alluded to the running away thing/mental health issues earlier on, that way I think this episode would have felt like it had more payoff for Yaz. And what exactly were her and her sister celebrating? The anniversary of her running away? What? Though, I did like the call back to Orphan 55 (even if I’d rather forget that episode), at least it shows that the adventures are actually having some sort of effect on the companions. Also I hated Thirteen’s response to Graham confiding in her. I think it goes against the message of the episode, but there you go. Snap Reminded me of a 4th Doc "Alien" delivery but with 4th it would followed up immediately with some sincere and or heart-warming reassurance. Regards mark687 |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 23:11:34 GMT
I thought on the whole that was pretty terrific stuff. In fact...quite wonderful a lot of the time. I worried briefly it was to be a re-written Amy's Choice but it went so wonderfully cosmic and off the wall it kinda felt like we'd stepped into Guardians Of The Galaxy. In fact the interior of the station reminded me very much of Tron Legacy in set design and lighting. Really looked expensive and far more than the BBC budget should be stretching to. There's no "let's save money for the finale" going on here. And who thought we'd see a Toymaker reference??? There were the annual "The Guardians might come back.." posts so nice to get a mention for them to but it was the Toymaker one that made me laugh in sheer gall of referencing the past. Our pair of villains here were quite reminiscent of elements Falls The Shadow and Infinite Requiem from the VNAs but nothing more than the basics. What I loved the most though is what some seem to dislike. I LOVED the contrast of the cosmic with the most relatable mundane human aspects about worry, self-doubt and depression. To be a satisfying look at the psyches of the companions AND be an absolutely massive cosmic story at the same time? That was remarkable. The only issue is that resolution was a bit rushed because of this. I don't want to say that the Aleppo stuff should have been removed with the monsters a conjuring from a companion to save time for the resolution but I think there's an ever so slightly better paced ending for this out there. Maybe just another 5 mins would have done. It all felt a bit "clever idea off-screen.". I did actually like that Jodie didn't have an easy answer for Graham at the end. I don't think that's the point. He needed to talk about it, he didn't need a conversation or a "Well, we'll take you to the future where cancer is cured!" - he just needed to get it off his chest. The Doctor's response was much, much less important than Graham talking about it. Still, I thought everything was so impressive from the visuals to the wonderful animations to Gelder's guest shot to everyone's fears realised gar better than The God Complex that I just can't grumble about anything much. It was a very close to top-tier one and done for me. I am becoming a Chibnall/Jodie era apologist having enjoyed every single episode this run and loved quite a few. Anyone who remembers my thoughts on much of S11 will know that's quite the volte face!  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 9, 2020 23:27:45 GMT
I forgot abouit the Toymaker reference! A lovely touch.
I also liked Yaz's growing impatience with The Doctor. "Do you even know where we are?" This question, and the way it was asked, continues Yaz's growing disenchantment with The Doctor, and I've heard a few rumours that this might be developed further. Also, the mixing of big, world-changing events with small, intimate situations is something that Doctor Who has done quite a lot (not just on television either), and I love the way it is handled here.
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Post by number13 on Feb 9, 2020 23:50:04 GMT
Mixed feelings about that episode, if I’m honest. Some good bits, some not so good bits. I like that Yaz got more development but felt it came out of nowhere. Maybe they should have alluded to the running away thing/mental health issues earlier on, that way I think this episode would have felt like it had more payoff for Yaz. And what exactly were her and her sister celebrating? The anniversary of her running away? What? Though, I did like the call back to Orphan 55 (even if I’d rather forget that episode), at least it shows that the adventures are actually having some sort of effect on the companions. Also I hated Thirteen’s response to Graham confiding in her. I think it goes against the message of the episode, but there you go. Snap Reminded me of a 4th Doc "Alien" delivery but with 4th it would followed up immediately with some sincere and or heart-warming reassurance. Regards mark687 Forgot to mention it, but I also agree about the Doctor's unempathetic response to Graham - very surprising and not a great encouragment for people hesitant about sharing their worries. It seemed the sort of response that Twelve probably would have given but out of character for this Doctor.
I also tried to imagine the Classic Doctors in that situation and in fact we did see them in similar moments, here and there. Such as Two's reassuring chat with Victoria in 'Tomb of the Cybermen' and Three encouraging Jo in 'The Time Monster'. In fact I could see any of them immediately giving a sympathetic response - except (agree with Mark) the Fourth Doctor would have taken a moment to realise he hadn't got it right and then been his most warm and charming self.
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Post by doctorkernow on Feb 10, 2020 0:02:29 GMT
Hello again.
Hmm... I think our 13th Doctor has been really rattled by recent events. First the Master, Gallifrey gone, Jack's message and RuthDoctor... she has a lot to think about. She has lost some of her initial sparkle and joie de vivre. It's still there, but there is more of that inner steel. Plain-speaking, knowing that Graham has lost so much already, she owes it to him not to fob him off with platitudes. Unless, she knows Graham is really on borrowed time. I don't know, this series feels very different in the relationships between Doctor and her crew. There is a strange dissonance that I can't quite put my finger on. There are mysteries hounding the Doctor and she can't rest until she has the answers...
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Post by chopper on Feb 10, 2020 0:06:35 GMT
Zellin sits inside your head,
Zellin lives among the dead,
Zellin sees you in your bed,
And eats you when you're sleeping.
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Post by pazzer on Feb 10, 2020 0:19:25 GMT
Was expecting them to be trapped in their nightmares or for nightmares to come to life. Instead got lots of good character stuff with the monsters basically window dressing. Found the stuff with the fingers a bit unsettling. Was nice to hear guardians etc referanced. The Aleppo stuff didn't really add anything. Glad Yaz got more backstory just a shame there hadn't been any hints and it came out of nowhere. Would have liked a bit more of a battle but ending was fine.
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Post by Digi on Feb 10, 2020 2:12:05 GMT
Another excellent episode in an excellent series! Man, this year has been good stuff!
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Post by project37 on Feb 10, 2020 2:37:38 GMT
It was absolutely worth it to take a year off so that the creative team could take all of the lessons learned from Series 11 and push things even further forward. This series has been the most fun I've had with Doctor Who in ages.
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 10, 2020 8:25:50 GMT
Great episode, very well character driven & basically a Godlike Freddy Krueger uses nightmares of humans to feed his significant other who ended up trapped in a goldfish bowl.
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Post by mark687 on Feb 10, 2020 10:57:32 GMT
Hello again. Hmm... I think our 13th Doctor has been really rattled by recent events. First the Master, Gallifrey gone, Jack's message and RuthDoctor... she has a lot to think about. She has lost some of her initial sparkle and joie de vivre. It's still there, but there is more of that inner steel. Plain-speaking, knowing that Graham has lost so much already, she owes it to him not to fob him off with platitudes. Unless, she knows Graham is really on borrowed time. I don't know this series feels very different in the relationships between Doctor and her crew. There is a strange dissonance that I can't quite put my finger on. There are mysteries hounding the Doctor and she can't rest until she has the answers...Yes there seems to be wilful ignorance to everyone situations plus a"Deal with it later" mentality to the Arc. Regards mark687 |
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Post by melkur on Feb 10, 2020 11:05:29 GMT
Whilst I would say that the defeat was a little convenient, I also really enjoyed tonight's episode... Now, why couldn't the last series have been this consistently good? "So, we have an old bloke, a black guy & an Asian? When're we getting a lesbian?" I don't know father, maybe when you start shutting up about it?... That would have been two seasons ago...  and Bill was excellent! And the Doctor's bio-mechanical chum Nardole was fun. 'Exposition and Comic Relief' lol, a line only Missy would say. But they were a great team with Twelve. Is it bad I forgot about Bill for a minute? (Bites lip) It took me a while to get 'used' to Nardole being a regular, but yes, they were a pretty great team |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 10, 2020 11:29:15 GMT
Whilst I would say that the defeat was a little convenient, I also really enjoyed tonight's episode... Now, why couldn't the last series have been this consistently good? "So, we have an old bloke, a black guy & an Asian? When're we getting a lesbian?" I don't know father, maybe when you start shutting up about it?... That would have been two seasons ago... and Bill was excellent! And the Doctor's bio-mechanical chum Nardole was fun. 'Exposition and Comic Relief' lol, a line only Missy would say. But they were a great team with Twelve. I loved the look of Series 10's TARDIS team - the wiry old Doctor, the shock-haired, wonderfully upbeat Bill and the scampering, genuinely funny Nardole. I can't help but feel this team-up has been slightly underrated. They were all wonderful.
Can You Hear Me? was watched by 3.81 million last night, the seventh most watched show yesterday.
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Post by number13 on Feb 10, 2020 12:16:29 GMT
That would have been two seasons ago... and Bill was excellent! And the Doctor's bio-mechanical chum Nardole was fun. 'Exposition and Comic Relief' lol, a line only Missy would say. But they were a great team with Twelve. Is it bad I forgot about Bill for a minute? (Bites lip) It took me a while to get 'used' to Nardole being a regular, but yes, they were a pretty great team No, I think it's good really - Bill was written as a good rounded Companion character, not a 'token' (if that makes sense?) - an enthusiastic 'student' for 'Professor Twelve' to teach and take on the ultimate in field trips while Nardole guarded the Vault. It didn't end as he'd have wanted it to, but I think the Doctor rather enjoyed his year in academia.
I was surprised by how much I enjoyed Nardole being on the team; I didn't think much of his character in the Christmas special but once he became a regular, it all seemed to click.
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Post by melkur on Feb 10, 2020 12:41:09 GMT
Now, why couldn't the last series have been this consistently good? I am one of those people who enjoyed the last season but agree that this is far more consistent, the whole thing feels more confident & the pace of the episodes is better. In fact I can't remember when I enjoyed a season of Dr Who as much as this. I enjoyed it as well, it does have some good episodes, some 'decent', aaaaaaand one that almost made me 'quit' the show. It's great to feel enthusiastically about the show again (especially as, as it airs on a Sunday evening, I can actually watch it go out 'live', something I couldn't do for most of Capaldi's run due to working Saturdays!) |
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Post by melkur on Feb 10, 2020 12:45:59 GMT
Is it bad I forgot about Bill for a minute? (Bites lip) It took me a while to get 'used' to Nardole being a regular, but yes, they were a pretty great team No, I think it's good really - Bill was written as a good rounded Companion character, not a 'token' (if that makes sense?) - an enthusiastic 'student' for 'Professor Twelve' to teach and take on the ultimate in field trips while Nardole guarded the Vault. It didn't end as he'd have wanted it to, but I think the Doctor rather enjoyed his year in academia.
I was surprised by how much I enjoyed Nardole being on the team; I didn't think much of his character in the Christmas special but once he became a regular, it all seemed to click.
She was, yes. For me she was a little bit of fresh air after two-and-a-bit years of Clara... For me, he was a bit like Donna - I liked the character during their special, but scoffed at their becoming a regular... Oh look, by series' end I was actually kinda sad to see them go! |
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 10, 2020 12:56:11 GMT
This was a great episode with some perfect references. Shame he didnt mention The Players as well or were they Eternals anyway?
We've had two VNA style episodes in a row with different storylines brought together, Would love novelisations of this and Praxeus.
Also i think that Chibnall read my Paul Spragg story on Divergent Wordsmiths lol
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Post by doctorkernow on Feb 10, 2020 14:55:07 GMT
Hello again. Just read this brilliant explanation for that uncomfortable scene between Graham and the Doctor. Doc Oho has been one of my favourite reviewers for years. "Oh Brilliant: I’ve heard some grumblings online about how the final scene between Graham and the Doctor is played and I think there is something far more profound going on than an amusing (or insulting) scene between the Doctor and one of his companions. This isn’t the Doctor refusing to comfort somebody who is opening up to her. Because that would be a pretty awful thing to do. This is somebody who doesn’t know how to react to the horrible, personal truth that is being spelled out to her. Trust me, as somebody who has battled with mental health problems and somebody who has worked in mental health, I have both been the Doctor in this scene and experienced her awkward silence. That’s the point of the episode, I think. Can you hear me? Do you want me to say it again? Someone is trying to explain their fears and anxieties…and sometimes you just don’t know what to say, or you’re not equipped to give an appropriate answer and so just make some awkward excuse to extradite yourself from the situation. It’s worth remembering that the Doctor is an alien from the planet Gallifrey and not a social worker from Barnsley. Yes, she makes big grandstanding speeches about humanity because it is easy to step in a make sweeping generalisations about things but when one person is looking you square in the eye and opening up about their doubts, in a beautifully flawed way she simply doesn’t have the answers. That feels very real to me because I’ve seen it." docohobigfinish.blogspot.com/2020/02/can-you-hear-me-written-by-charlene.html?m=1 |
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and Bill was excellent! And the Doctor's bio-mechanical chum Nardole was fun. 'Exposition and Comic Relief' lol, a line only Missy would say. But they were a great team with Twelve.
