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Post by frisby78 on Feb 16, 2020 21:26:27 GMT
All in all a brilliant episode. Also some great direction too.
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Post by number13 on Feb 16, 2020 21:42:08 GMT
Perfect scheduling BBC, in fact downright spooky... *wind howls, rain splatters on window* - for real! For UK viewers it really is 'a dark and stormy night'...
I'll be checking for poets in the cellar and lurking Cybermen in the walls before I retire to bed with my guttering candle and a mysteriously delivered sandwich... Another great episode in this season, filled with atmosphere, all the classic 'haunted house' moments we could have wanted and a dusting of 'Pride and Prejudice' style (which did sugar-coat the real Lord Byron and his chums a bit, but it would have to really!) It all looked excellent and the lighting deserves a special mention in this one. Also the grotesque Lone Cyberman design and makeup; another episode with a properly scary monster, chillingly and most appropriately still part-human, enough to both pity it and fear it. Plus ghosts of various kinds and the skeletal Hand of Fear as a bonus! This series has gone pretty Gothic again hasn't it and this episode was by definition the most Gothic of the lot. I enjoyed all the spectral spectacle, the Companions each getting good story time - and Graham's comedy moments were fun, but for me the highlights were Mary's face-off with The Monster and the Doctor taking her proper place as the one who has to choose, with History resting on her actions. Her brief debate with Ryan neatly revisited the old dilemma - you can't rewrite history, not one line. It was the right choice for the timelines and the moral choice too - Shelley's life wasn't the Doctor's to give away - and if the Lone Cyberman hadn't found his 'target', we wouldn't be getting the big finale, would we? So it was the right dramatic choice too! After the science fiction 'ghosts' of perception filters etc. I also liked at the twist at the end - Graham discovering he'd seen the real thing! And at that twist I'm sure I wasn't the only listener to the Fourth Doctor Adventures to say: {Spoiler}'Malkin Place!' 5* of course. (A Who 'ghost story' is just about perfect viewing for a Who fan with an M.R.James story for his username!)
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shutupbanks
Castellan
There’s a horror movie called Alien? That’s really offensive. No wonder everyone keeps invading you.
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Post by shutupbanks on Feb 16, 2020 21:45:13 GMT
Atmospheric. I’m no scholar but I did like the portrayal of the historical figures, hinting at the complete messes they were: Byron basically shagged his way across the Enlightenment like an emo Charlie Sheen while Shelley truly did have an ego big enough to warp reality. Poor Fletcher, though: the resigned looks he kept giving because Byron came up with yet another dumb idea were fantastic. He deserved better. The Cyberman was brilliant: the body horror was strong in this episode. The personality of the original human seeping through was chilling. I wonder, though, was he incomplete due to the process being interrupted or was he battle-damaged? The scene with him holding William was just superb. And I loved the main team tonight: Yaz doing her police work, Ryan letting someone of his angst from last week bubble over into the story, and Graham doing some more comedy that genuinely served the story. This felt like a return, structurally, to series 3 and 4: a seemingly standalone adventure which leads into a huge finale. Can’t wait.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 21:53:46 GMT
I loved this episode. Loved the gothic atmosphere, loved the Doctor's darkening reactions as the story progressed and absolutely loved that we finally have a Cyberman, albeit a damaged one, that genuinely chills the soul.
5/5
Have I mentioned I loved this episode?
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Post by Tim Bradley on Feb 16, 2020 22:06:59 GMT
Hmm. Lots to talk about regarding this episode tomorrow. Tim.
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Post by ollychops on Feb 16, 2020 22:24:10 GMT
I think that just may be my favourite episode from Thirteen's era (so far, anyway!). Very creepy and atmospheric, well paced, and the jokes landed well. Really good debut from Maxine Alderton - I hope she gets to return for S13.
I have to highlight that scene between Thirteen and Ryan. It was so well done, and adds so much to Thirteen's character, and gave plenty for Whittaker to sink her teeth into - I hope we see more of that side from Thirteen.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2020 22:33:27 GMT
Another absolute winner. What the hell has happened between seasons? There's just so much urgency to the show now. It's remarkable the turnaround on it. Last season was easily the weakest for me since the show came back and by some distance but this year? I'm wondering, as each 4 or 5/5 ticks by if it's the best season since it did. Jodie got two very different moments that I totally loved. Her comic delivery of the house being "unspeakably evil" was one of the best bits of comedy played on the show in ages. The casual nature of such a massive declaration being tossed off was just beautiful. Then at the other end was the really, really intesense slapdown she had for Ryan and the "team" (did you notice, no "fam" here!) when she said " "Sometimes this team structure isn't flat. It's mountainous, with me at the summit. In the stratosphere. Alone. Left to choose."" She made it clear it's not a TARDIS democracy and that really is feeding into the more subtle arc of the companions not feeling the fun anymore. I don't care about whether you can fit it in with the BF Shelley or not, it really doesn't matter either way, but I got more of a Chimes Of Midnight feel anyway with the impossible house. Who has done, as have many sci-fi shows, the space closing in on itself and leaving one room only to enter it again thing many times but it worked well here. Usually because there was a well times little jump-scare to accentuate it. It reminded me of The X-Files Season 6 Christmas ep in that regards. Just really fun Sunday night Who. Setting up the next 2 weeks where we know very little in real terms about what will (re)occur. We know loads of ongoing arcs from Jo Martin's Doc, The Timeless Child, Gallifrey's destruction, The Master on the loose, the Cyber Wars, Jack still out there...but we don't know how much of any of it will really play in. It's been a very sleight of hand season and could be a twisty fortnight ahead. Some of that will be kept for Christmas or Series 13 next Autumn but I can't see the next 2 eps being massively safe. Little else has been this year!
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 16, 2020 22:45:38 GMT
Another absolute winner. What the hell has happened between seasons? There's just so much urgency to the show now. It's remarkable the turnaround on it. Last season was easily the weakest for me since the show came back and by some distance but this year? I'm wondering, as each 4 or 5/5 ticks by if it's the best season since it did. Jodie got two very different moments that I totally loved. Her comic delivery of the house being "unspeakably evil" was one of the best bits of comedy played on the show in ages. The casual nature of such a massive declaration being tossed off was just beautiful. Then at the other end was the really, really intesense slapdown she had for Ryan and the "team" (did you notice, no "fam" here!) when she said " "Sometimes this team structure isn't flat. It's mountainous, with me at the summit. In the stratosphere. Alone. Left to choose."" She made it clear it's not a TARDIS democracy and that really is feeding into the more subtle arc of the companions not feeling the fun anymore. I don't care about whether you can fit it in with the BF Shelley or not, it really doesn't matter either way, but I got more of a Chimes Of Midnight feel anyway with the impossible house. Who has done, as have many sci-fi shows, the space closing in on itself and leaving one room only to enter it again thing many times but it worked well here. Usually because there was a well times little jump-scare to accentuate it. It reminded me of The X-Files Season 6 Christmas ep in that regards. Just really fun Sunday night Who. Setting up the next 2 weeks where we know very little in real terms about what will (re)occur. We know loads of ongoing arcs from Jo Martin's Doc, The Timeless Child, Gallifrey's destruction, The Master on the loose, the Cyber Wars, Jack still out there...but we don't know how much of any of it will really play in. It's been a very sleight of hand season and could be a twisty fortnight ahead. Some of that will be kept for Christmas or Series 13 next Autumn but I can't see the next 2 eps being massively safe. Little else has been this year! Pretty much yes to everything. If CC sticks the next two episodes, yeah this could be the best season of the revived series. Tons of atmosphere. Whittaker absolutely owning the role. As David notes, what a turnaround from last year where it felt very safe, very bland, very tentative. This season has an edge, it’s bold and it is confident. I don’t think this series ends well for the fam.
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Post by doctorkernow on Feb 16, 2020 22:49:12 GMT
Hello again.
Well, for me this was Jodie Whittaker's second classic episode after Demons of Punjab. Even though it sets up the finale this was a cracking script. It had humour, suspense, some really good Mrs Doctor material that showed this Doctor's steely core and a truly scary Cyberman.
There is so much I enjoyed about this episode. Maxine Alderton can come back anytime, as can Emma Sullivan. Her direction made the most of this puzzle box of a story. I wasn't expecting our silver friends in this episode. The design of the scary one was first class as was the performance of Patrick O'Kane.
The guest cast really integrated well with the TARDIS crew. I really enjoyed Lili Miller as Mary and Jacob Collins-Levy as Byron. A great Whostorical episode, though I still would love to see a pure historical just once. Now looking forward to the finale. If the last two episodes are as good as this one then this Cyber-trilogy will be one to cherish. Here's hoping.
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Post by doctorkernow on Feb 17, 2020 0:17:47 GMT
Hello again.
I enjoyed that so much I watched it again. I loved the contrast between the humourous start and the frightening ending. This is what Dr. Kit Pedler and Gerry Davis were after when they created the Cybermen. I think in some ways, if done right can be more frightening than the Daleks. My first Cyberstory was Earthshock, I was 8. The impact of these humanesque soldiers was immense.
For once, the Doctor didn't win. He was fallible. That really made Doctor Who unpredictable. The introduction of an untrustworthy companion the following year was interesting too. Big Finish too, without the visuals, has surely done much to increase the power of the Cybermen. The Silver Turk, Spare Parts, Human Resources, The Reaping, The Harvest, Real Time and The Girl Who Never Was. All explore the Cybermen in interesting and scary ways.
On second viewing, this is definitely Jodie's finest hour so far. She nails every scene, her confrontation with the Cyberman, her challenge to her crew 'to call it' and her goofy humourous asides all add up to a truly Doctorish performance. Jodie Whittaker's confidence this season has given Thirteen a distinctive air with elements of previous incarnations filtering through.
The vitriolic Youtubers can say what they like. Jodie Whittaker's interpretation of this iconic role has got stronger and stronger since her debut, particularly this series. I look forward to seeing more of Mrs Doctor, this year and next.
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Post by number13 on Feb 17, 2020 2:07:27 GMT
Another absolute winner. What the hell has happened between seasons? There's just so much urgency to the show now. It's remarkable the turnaround on it. Last season was easily the weakest for me since the show came back and by some distance but this year? I'm wondering, as each 4 or 5/5 ticks by if it's the best season since it did. Snap! It is astonishing and yes I was also thinking earlier that while Peter Capaldi is still easily the best new series Doctor imo, this is the best season of the new era. Topping even S10 for me. It's a heck of an achievement for everyone involved, I just cross my fingers that the finale can pay off such a great build-up. Going by the season so far, I'm feeling hopeful it will.
(It seems odd still saying 'new series' after almost 12 seasons but what else? Revived? Returned? Revenanted? )
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Post by timegirl on Feb 17, 2020 2:30:04 GMT
That was easily one of the best episodes of Series 12!😃 Dark atmospheric and the closest thing I think we are going to get to a tv adaptation of Chimes of Midnight with the creepy changing house!💀😱😀 I am very intrigued by the lone cyberman🤔 his design with the human half face and hand in charred metal is especially disturbing 😱 I love the humor in this one as well Lord Byron was reminder me a lot of Jack with all his hitting on 13 (or should I say Mrs. Doctor)😄😉 Graham was great as always and the revelation at the end with the ghosts he saw was genuinely chilling 💀😱 13 really came into her own with the confrontation with the Lone Cyberman, her performance is getting better and better😊 She’s still not my favorite Doctor by any means 🤔 ( that would be 12 and 10😉) but she is really coming into her own this series!😃
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Post by Timelord007 on Feb 17, 2020 8:53:20 GMT
Gothic Horror with a battle ravaged Cyberman = Fan-bloody-tastic, i loved it, tense, claustrophobic, scary, mysterious & very well directed.
Jodie is smashing it as the Doctor she really made this series her own while Bradley Walsh as Graham scene steals every scene he's in.
5/5
Please don't mess it up with the final two episodes because this season has been a very strong return to form.
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Post by project37 on Feb 17, 2020 9:43:08 GMT
Another absolute winner. What the hell has happened between seasons? There's just so much urgency to the show now. It's remarkable the turnaround on it. Last season was easily the weakest for me since the show came back and by some distance but this year? I'm wondering, as each 4 or 5/5 ticks by if it's the best season since it did. They took a year off to give themselves time to review the lessons learned and work even harder to craft a stronger series of episodes.
Count me in as another viewer that really enjoyed this episode. I can't remember the last time that the Cybermen were genuinely terrifying - the scene where he'd reflected on being a parent was especially scary as it didn't go where we all thought it would.
Whittaker's speech about the Doctor's view from the summit was *chef's kiss*.
There's so much more I could say, but I need to go watch it again.
As for the BF connection and the continuity wrangling with the 8th Doctor - I can link to it again, but there was a promotional interview for Dimension Cannon where Nick genuinely surprised Billie Piper with the statement that only about 2-3K people actually follow the audios. Since hearing that, I'm personally even less concerned with these sort of "continuity errors." As someone else said upthread, the Time War is an easy way to reconcile things. There's also that little scene in Zagreus where the Eighth Doctor views portals of alternate realities. From the business side, licensed media always has to follow the main show and never the other way around. The fun for audio fans is to create their own explanation to join stuff up.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Feb 17, 2020 11:18:15 GMT
Another absolute winner. What the hell has happened between seasons? There's just so much urgency to the show now. It's remarkable the turnaround on it. Last season was easily the weakest for me since the show came back and by some distance but this year? I'm wondering, as each 4 or 5/5 ticks by if it's the best season since it did. They took a year off to give themselves time to review the lessons learned and work even harder to craft a stronger series of episodes.
Count me in as another viewer that really enjoyed this episode. I can't remember the last time that the Cybermen were genuinely terrifying - the scene where he'd reflected on being a parent was especially scary as it didn't go where we all thought it would.
Whittaker's speech about the Doctor's view from the summit was *chef's kiss*.
There's so much more I could say, but I need to go watch it again.
As for the BF connection and the continuity wrangling with the 8th Doctor - I can link to it again, but there was a promotional interview for Dimension Cannon where Nick genuinely surprised Billie Piper with the statement that only about 2-3K people actually follow the audios. Since hearing that, I'm personally even less concerned with these sort of "continuity errors." As someone else said upthread, the Time War is an easy way to reconcile things. There's also that little scene in Zagreus where the Eighth Doctor views portals of alternate realities. From the business side, licensed media always has to follow the main show and never the other way around. The fun for audio fans is to create their own explanation to join stuff up. Can you imagine NICK as the show runner? Aside from the obvious "hasn't form on running a show on TV" that is. Sadly the poor man would run himself ragged (more than he already does!) But continuity issues with BF? Pfff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2020 11:27:20 GMT
A slight rise of 3.86 million viewers for this last night.
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Post by sherlock on Feb 17, 2020 11:48:55 GMT
A theory on the contradiction between this and Big Finish (which actually isn’t the Time War)
So apparently the competition to write a ghost story wasn’t, in real life, one night-it was a few days long (and Mary didn’t start Frankenstein until a few days into the contest). This gives us some flexibility.
-On the day the contest starts, Mary’s Story happens. Mary leaves with the Doctor in the TARDIS. -On the second day, the Doctor returns Mary home in the morning. Here they encounter Chronotis (as referenced in eighth Doctor version of Shada, where the Doctor claims ‘Chronotis and I’ once spent a weekend on Lake Geneva with Mary and Lord Byron) -On the third day, the eighth Doctor leaves (hence having spent a weekend). Chronotis uses his vast telepathic powers to wipe the historical figures’ memories of his visit, as he’s still on the run from the Time Lords and meeting such important historical figures might attract attention. As a side effect, they also forget the Doctor (Mary might retain some subconscious notions from her travels, useful for writing inspiration). Afterwards Percy finds the Cyberium, and that night The Haunting of Villa Diodati occurs.
As for why the Doctor doesn’t mention past encounters with Mary; Davros’ mindwipe from Terror Firma plus the centuries of experiences since those events have made her memory a bit foggy on the matter.
Alternatively it was the Time War. I’m honestly not really that fussed about the contradiction, just had this idea that might explain it and figured I’d share.
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Post by whiskeybrewer on Feb 17, 2020 12:58:34 GMT
A theory on the contradiction between this and Big Finish (which actually isn’t the Time War) So apparently the competition to write a ghost story wasn’t, in real life, one night-it was a few days long (and Mary didn’t start Frankenstein until a few days into the contest). This gives us some flexibility. -On the day the contest starts, Mary’s Story happens. Mary leaves with the Doctor in the TARDIS. -On the second day, the Doctor returns Mary home in the morning. Here they encounter Chronotis (as referenced in eighth Doctor version of Shada, where the Doctor claims ‘Chronotis and I’ once spent a weekend on Lake Geneva with Mary and Lord Byron) -On the third day, the eighth Doctor leaves (hence having spent a weekend). Chronotis uses his vast telepathic powers to wipe the historical figures’ memories of his visit, as he’s still on the run from the Time Lords and meeting such important historical figures might attract attention. As a side effect, they also forget the Doctor (Mary might retain some subconscious notions from her travels, useful for writing inspiration). Afterwards Percy finds the Cyberium, and that night The Haunting of Villa Diodati occurs. As for why the Doctor doesn’t mention past encounters with Mary; Davros’ mindwipe from Terror Firma plus the centuries of experiences since those events have made her memory a bit foggy on the matter. Alternatively it was the Time War. I’m honestly not really that fussed about the contradiction, just had this idea that might explain it and figured I’d share. I'm going with this lol
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Post by OneTen on Feb 17, 2020 13:52:19 GMT
A theory on the contradiction between this and Big Finish (which actually isn’t the Time War) So apparently the competition to write a ghost story wasn’t, in real life, one night-it was a few days long (and Mary didn’t start Frankenstein until a few days into the contest). This gives us some flexibility. -On the day the contest starts, Mary’s Story happens. Mary leaves with the Doctor in the TARDIS. -On the second day, the Doctor returns Mary home in the morning. Here they encounter Chronotis (as referenced in eighth Doctor version of Shada, where the Doctor claims ‘Chronotis and I’ once spent a weekend on Lake Geneva with Mary and Lord Byron) -On the third day, the eighth Doctor leaves (hence having spent a weekend). Chronotis uses his vast telepathic powers to wipe the historical figures’ memories of his visit, as he’s still on the run from the Time Lords and meeting such important historical figures might attract attention. As a side effect, they also forget the Doctor (Mary might retain some subconscious notions from her travels, useful for writing inspiration). Afterwards Percy finds the Cyberium, and that night The Haunting of Villa Diodati occurs. As for why the Doctor doesn’t mention past encounters with Mary; Davros’ mindwipe from Terror Firma plus the centuries of experiences since those events have made her memory a bit foggy on the matter. Alternatively it was the Time War. I’m honestly not really that fussed about the contradiction, just had this idea that might explain it and figured I’d share. I like the idea. One more inconvenient fact to work around: the day that Mary meets the vitreous-time-Doctor could be the first day of the contest, but Mary's Story takes place over at least 3 days, possibly more. During my extensive academic researches (i.e. reading a wikipedia page) it seems the contest occurred while the five were kept inside for three days by poor weather. This doesn't leave much time for the Chronotis/Cyberium stuff, maybe more time-wimey-ness is required to explain this?
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Post by scriptortempore on Feb 17, 2020 14:16:16 GMT
A theory on the contradiction between this and Big Finish (which actually isn’t the Time War) So apparently the competition to write a ghost story wasn’t, in real life, one night-it was a few days long (and Mary didn’t start Frankenstein until a few days into the contest). This gives us some flexibility. -On the day the contest starts, Mary’s Story happens. Mary leaves with the Doctor in the TARDIS. -On the second day, the Doctor returns Mary home in the morning. Here they encounter Chronotis (as referenced in eighth Doctor version of Shada, where the Doctor claims ‘Chronotis and I’ once spent a weekend on Lake Geneva with Mary and Lord Byron) -On the third day, the eighth Doctor leaves (hence having spent a weekend). Chronotis uses his vast telepathic powers to wipe the historical figures’ memories of his visit, as he’s still on the run from the Time Lords and meeting such important historical figures might attract attention. As a side effect, they also forget the Doctor (Mary might retain some subconscious notions from her travels, useful for writing inspiration). Afterwards Percy finds the Cyberium, and that night The Haunting of Villa Diodati occurs. As for why the Doctor doesn’t mention past encounters with Mary; Davros’ mindwipe from Terror Firma plus the centuries of experiences since those events have made her memory a bit foggy on the matter. Alternatively it was the Time War. I’m honestly not really that fussed about the contradiction, just had this idea that might explain it and figured I’d share. I like the idea. One more inconvenient fact to work around: the day that Mary meets the vitreous-time-Doctor could be the first day of the contest, but Mary's Story takes place over at least 3 days, possibly more. During my extensive academic researches (i.e. reading a wikipedia page) it seems the contest occurred while the five were kept inside for three days by poor weather. This doesn't leave much time for the Chronotis/Cyberium stuff, maybe more time-wimey-ness is required to explain this? Beyond whatever universe altering things it turns out to be, the Master's line of "everything you think you know is a lie" is also a reference to him mucking about with timelines which conveniently fix every contradiction, funny that.
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