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Post by mark687 on Feb 24, 2020 21:51:40 GMT
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Post by Audio Watchdog on Feb 24, 2020 22:28:24 GMT
If any of you wonder why actors do what they do or ask why actors are the way they are....just look at Bradley Walsh. In our heart of hearts actors are children and we just want to play.
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 24, 2020 22:35:21 GMT
If any of you wonder why actors do what they do or ask why actors are the way they are....just look at Bradley Walsh. In our heart of hearts actors are children and we just want to play. Like Colin said in one of the audio commentaries: “I just want to play pretend cowboys and Indians.“
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Post by number13 on Feb 25, 2020 1:14:41 GMT
Just done a rewatch and the cyberstory was huge and spectacular, and looked amazing and sounded even better. (Gaming headphones on and the 5:1 button pressed, yes it sounded amazing! ) All cyber-hell is obviously going to break loose next week and I think many of us have 'Earthshock' feelings about what might happen. I don''t want to lose any of the 'fam', they're all great.
But the story of Brendan was the really interesting one imo. When Brendan was shot and fell from the cliff and survived, impossibly, what did he do? Lay still for a moment, then suddenly gasped and sat up - exactly like Captain Jack does. Dead, then - not.
I think Brendan is, like Jack but presumably for a different reason, a fixed point in Time. (Which doesn't mean he can't age - Jack does, albeit slowly.)
Surely Brendan is the Timeless Child? He was still there waiting at the boundary to show any survivors through, however long after that was.
I also think we saw him being chamaeleon-arched at the end of the episode and they even gave him a clock first, handy that! (The inscription on the back we never saw was probably in Old High Gallifreyan ) Which means he and the others were Time Lords? And that is the point where my speculating breaks down and I can't even begin to guess where we're going next week! And how the Master fits in and... etc. etc.
It's an old Who joke that Gallifrey is sometimes assumed to be connected with Galway and the west of Ireland, as other have commented, but are they going to tell us it was more than a joke?
The Irish Saint Brendan was famous for his semi-legendary Atlantic voyages to the unknown West, including to the Land of the Blessed, similar to the earlier tales of voyages to Tir na nog, a promised land somewhere out over the sea... Favoured travellers could reach it by a hazardous voyage which involved passing through a barrier of some kind - mist or storm. It was a beautiful place but Time flowed differently there and it was dangerous for mortals to visit.
(Our Irish members will know far more about this than I do, but as noone had mentioned it and names in Who can be significant clues, I thought I'd note it. Of course these voyages were inspiration for Tolkien's elvenlands, lying far to the west of Middle-Earth and somehow 'beyond' it.)
Fun, isn't it?
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melkur
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Post by melkur on Feb 25, 2020 1:33:52 GMT
Well, it's been a day, aaaaaaand I think my reaction can be summed up as "fine, it waaaaaas... Fine?"
I enjoyed it, it looked good, but I think I'm going to have to watch next week's to get the full picture.
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Post by elkawho on Feb 25, 2020 4:08:56 GMT
But the story of Brendan was the really interesting one imo. When Brendan was shot and fell from the cliff and survived, impossibly, what did he do? Lay still for a moment, then suddenly gasped and sat up - exactly like Captain Jack does. Dead, then - not.
I think Brendan is, like Jack but presumably for a different reason, a fixed point in Time. (Which doesn't mean he can't age - Jack does, albeit slowly.)
Surely Brendan is the Timeless Child? He was still there waiting at the boundary to show any survivors through, however long after that was.
...
It's an old Who joke that Gallifrey is sometimes assumed to be connected with Galway and the west of Ireland, as other have commented, but are they going to tell us it was more than a joke?
Yeah, I thought he was much more Jack-like in that scene than Timelord. The way he gasped and sat up struck me hard. There may be a reason why Jack is finally back in Who, and it has something to do with Brendan. But I haven't a clue as to what it could be. I also thought of the "Gallifrey, is that in Ireland?" comment that pops up time and again. Don't know if it's related at all, but it did go through my mind. What a fun two...wait, no..THREE-parter this is! Like others have said previously, so much better and way more fun than season 11. I can't wait till next week, but at the same time I don't want the ride to end!
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Post by agentten on Feb 25, 2020 4:32:30 GMT
My thoughts:
- A body at the bottom of a cliff by the sea was a nice nod to Broadchurch. A wink at the camera that didn't distract.
- I, too, got Jack Harkness vibes from Brendan's resurrection. That has to be on purpose, given Jack's recent reintroduction to the show, though what it means is delightfully obfuscated.
- The Cybermen were the most terrifying I think they've ever been. I was truly afraid for the companions in this episode and I felt a strong sense of guilt coming from the Doctor when she realized how much danger they were in. No doubt she's thinking of Bill, and I thought it was nicely done. The scene works in the abstract, but fans and longer term viewers will know exactly what The Doctor is thinking of in that moment.
- The shock and awe entrance of the Cybermen in the first act, followed by their unpredictable behavior has made them intense and intimating. They feel reinvigorated, a real feat for such a long term villain. It reminds me of my first viewing of "Dalek" back in 2005, when the potential of a single Dalek became the most terrifying thing in the universe.
- Whittaker continues to nail every moment of the newly burdened version of her Doctor. She's been so great all season and I find her climbing the ranks of my favorite Doctors. She had some moments in this episode that called for the Doctor to flip from intense to funny instantly, not an easy thing to pull off, and she made it look effortless.
- Lots of strong moments for the companions this week, especially Graham. Bradley Walsh is such an MVP for the show.
- There were many really well staged, genuine surprises for me this week, especially the one-two punch of Gallifrey appearing in the portal followed by The Master tumbling out of it. I love that I don't know what to expect every week.
- At the end of the episode I let out a breath I didn't realize I'd been holding. I'm not sure I can think of a better complement for the show right now than that. I'm excited for the show every week on a level I haven't been since the Tennant era. That's not a slight against any other era, only to say that Tennant's tenure is my all time favorite, and this is stirring those same feelings of excitement.
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Post by charlesuirdhein on Feb 25, 2020 18:42:51 GMT
Just done a rewatch and the cyberstory was huge and spectacular, and looked amazing and sounded even better. (Gaming headphones on and the 5:1 button pressed, yes it sounded amazing! ) All cyber-hell is obviously going to break loose next week and I think many of us have 'Earthshock' feelings about what might happen. I don''t want to lose any of the 'fam', they're all great.
But the story of Brendan was the really interesting one imo. When Brendan was shot and fell from the cliff and survived, impossibly, what did he do? Lay still for a moment, then suddenly gasped and sat up - exactly like Captain Jack does. Dead, then - not.
I think Brendan is, like Jack but presumably for a different reason, a fixed point in Time. (Which doesn't mean he can't age - Jack does, albeit slowly.)
Surely Brendan is the Timeless Child? He was still there waiting at the boundary to show any survivors through, however long after that was.
I also think we saw him being chamaeleon-arched at the end of the episode and they even gave him a clock first, handy that! (The inscription on the back we never saw was probably in Old High Gallifreyan ) Which means he and the others were Time Lords? And that is the point where my speculating breaks down and I can't even begin to guess where we're going next week! And how the Master fits in and... etc. etc.
It's an old Who joke that Gallifrey is sometimes assumed to be connected with Galway and the west of Ireland, as other have commented, but are they going to tell us it was more than a joke?
The Irish Saint Brendan was famous for his semi-legendary Atlantic voyages to the unknown West, including to the Land of the Blessed, similar to the earlier tales of voyages to Tir na nog, a promised land somewhere out over the sea... Favoured travellers could reach it by a hazardous voyage which involved passing through a barrier of some kind - mist or storm. It was a beautiful place but Time flowed differently there and it was dangerous for mortals to visit.
(Our Irish members will know far more about this than I do, but as noone had mentioned it and names in Who can be significant clues, I thought I'd note it. Of course these voyages were inspiration for Tolkien's elvenlands, lying far to the west of Middle-Earth and somehow 'beyond' it.)
Fun, isn't it? Well, arguably you could be speaking of Hy Brasil, but more likely Teach Duinn (Pr Chock Doo-in, at least in MY dialect!), where souls gather after death before either passing on to the Underworld or reincarnating. But who knows if this has been used as a source.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 20:42:09 GMT
I genuinely believe we've had some of the best Cyberman stories since the show began over the past few years. Both Peter Capaldi's series finales featuring the metal monsters, and this, really have made the creatures more fearsome and monstrous than they have ever been. Clearly, this is only the first part of a two-parter, but I'm not sure this quite measures up against Dark Water and The Doctor Falls (two of my favourites) but it is still blistering stuff. And how nice of Sacha to sweep in towards the end and steal the show with only a handful of words - what a terrific new Master he is.
Someone at work told me this episode tells the story of how Captain Jack got started (I presume he meant Brendan's story), but I'm not sure he's right. After all, it was The Doctor's involvement that gave Jack his immortality - wasn't it? I'm pretty much convinced Bendan is a red (ginger?) herring. But who knows? And how wonderful to truly not know what on Earth is going to happen.
A great opening episode, terrific to see the Cybermen dark and gritty and truly terrifying. I think sometimes in spectacular series finales we can lose the 'human factor' amidst the bangs and flashes, but we have got to know Yaz, Graham and Ryan well by this time, and I truly hope nothing too unpleasant happens to any of them.
Wonderful.
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Post by number13 on Feb 26, 2020 1:47:05 GMT
...
It's an old Who joke that Gallifrey is sometimes assumed to be connected with Galway and the west of Ireland, as other have commented, but are they going to tell us it was more than a joke?
The Irish Saint Brendan was famous for his semi-legendary Atlantic voyages to the unknown West, including to the Land of the Blessed, similar to the earlier tales of voyages to Tir na nog, a promised land somewhere out over the sea... Favoured travellers could reach it by a hazardous voyage which involved passing through a barrier of some kind - mist or storm. It was a beautiful place but Time flowed differently there and it was dangerous for mortals to visit.
(Our Irish members will know far more about this than I do, but as noone had mentioned it and names in Who can be significant clues, I thought I'd note it. Of course these voyages were inspiration for Tolkien's elvenlands, lying far to the west of Middle-Earth and somehow 'beyond' it.) Well, arguably you could be speaking of Hy Brasil, but more likely Teach Duinn (Pr Chock Doo-in, at least in MY dialect!), where souls gather after death before either passing on to the Underworld or reincarnating. But who knows if this has been used as a source. Thanks Charles, I think it would be pronounced that way in Scots Gaelic too (by me with my very limited knowledge anyway.) The house of the dark / dark one? (Think that's right isn't it?) That does seem a perfect inspiration for whatever horror the Master found in Gallifrey. Dark One ... Dark Lord? Dark Time Lord??
(Is it Sunday yet? )
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 27, 2020 11:13:15 GMT
When discussing part ones, it's always hard to be definite, as the second part is the decider. As is, it's quite solid - it definitely cribs from Stolen Earth, World Enough and a plethora of the more cosmic Cyber stories. The idea of Chibbs as a remix artist has found renewed traction this series. However, it does work for an entertaining hour of television - always going somewhere, there's a constant shift and raising of stakes; dividing the fam works to give them more to do and the Cybermen have real power. Ashad continues to be, possibly, Chibbs' strongest villain - this Opus Dei/Puritan self-loathing piety and the leaning into the cult-ian part of the Cybermen (they all want to conform and be alike) is something pretty novel. Because we think of them as just cold shells, the underlying fanaticism that goes with their super-conformity notion does get lost, and Chibbs has brought it back.O'Kane has such a weirdly soothing yet psychotic performance that hits the right notes, and I'm curious to see where they go next time.
Also, the Brendan stuff - 1) I can't help but think Chibbs is having a bit of nostalgia for his Born and Bred days, with a provinicial drama. 2) I think the quaintness and relative low stakes is the point, to contrast with the future stuff. It's using the conventions and trappings of the BBC Sunday drama to play with us when we start to see more of Brendan's real nature. I do wish that maybe there was a bit more with it, even with the knowledge of the second part coming, but oh well. The clock - a big tip-off or Chibbs playing with our expectations?
If there is a definite complaint to just this part, I think the opening battle is a bit awkward in its staging. VFX-wise, looks great, and the Cyberdrones manage to be both daft yet also inventive. However, I can't help but question why the Doctor's machines didn't actually activate, and it did lose some of the tension. Maybe the idea was the Drones could move faster, or the machines needed more heat-up time, but I don't think that was well communicated.
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Post by aussiedoctorwhofan on Feb 27, 2020 11:37:17 GMT
Did anyone else catch Graham saying, and then cutting himself off something like "I am the doc..."
Inernet conspiracy theories everywhere..
Personally it looks like he just flubbed his line.
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Post by timegirl on Feb 27, 2020 11:46:35 GMT
Did anyone else catch Graham saying, and then cutting himself off something like "I am the doc..." Inernet conspiracy theories everywhere.. Personally it looks like he just flubbed his line. I have been wondering if they are hinting at him secretly being another chameleon arched incarnation of the Doctor, he does keep getting mistaken for the Doctor an awful lot🤔😉 We might miss regular Graham if he is but if they did reveal he is another incarnation of the Doctor, it would be a much happier ending for Graham 😊that his cancer coming back 😢
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Post by number13 on Feb 27, 2020 12:25:23 GMT
Did anyone else catch Graham saying, and then cutting himself off something like "I am the doc..." Inernet conspiracy theories everywhere.. Personally it looks like he just flubbed his line.Then his secret is out - Graham is an 'arched' alternative Hartnell Doctor.
'Nonsense, Gnome Bert Thirsty, nonsense!'
It's 'Number Thirteen', Doctor.
'Yes yes of course I know that Numb Firtree, why don't people pay attention to what I say, hmmm?!'
(With apologies to the great William Hartnell who worked when 'cuts' and 'retakes' were prohibitively expensive on a 'Doctor Who' budget. But if there's a "flub" in a modern story - that really could be a clue or why would it be left in?)
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 28, 2020 10:20:52 GMT
So, Anrew Ellard (you may remember him from the Paul Spragg thread. He's a script editor on shows like Detectorists) has been doing a regular tweet series, analysing the episodes. For anyone who has had uncertain feelings about this episode, he may be able to give you an explanation:
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2020 11:22:00 GMT
So, Anrew Ellard (you may remember him from the Paul Spragg thread. He's a script editor on shows like Detectorists) has been doing a regular tweet series, analysing the episodes. For anyone who has had uncertain feelings about this episode, he may be able to give you an explanation: He sounds like a ray of sunshine.
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Post by number13 on Feb 28, 2020 14:58:27 GMT
So, Anrew Ellard (you may remember him from the Paul Spragg thread. He's a script editor on shows like Detectorists) has been doing a regular tweet series, analysing the episodes. For anyone who has had uncertain feelings about this episode, he may be able to give you an explanation: He sounds like a ray of sunshine. I gave the episode a cautious 4* (because while mysterious and spectacular, it's a Part 1 and how good it really turns out to be depends on Part 2.)
But reading that tweet makes me want to 'upgrade' my score to 5* as a 'so there' For one thing that was a great cliff-hanger!
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Post by tuigirl on Feb 28, 2020 19:16:04 GMT
So, Anrew Ellard (you may remember him from the Paul Spragg thread. He's a script editor on shows like Detectorists) has been doing a regular tweet series, analysing the episodes. For anyone who has had uncertain feelings about this episode, he may be able to give you an explanation: You cannot please everyone. Actually, certain people you cannot please. Full stop.
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Post by nucleusofswarm on Feb 28, 2020 20:48:23 GMT
So, Anrew Ellard (you may remember him from the Paul Spragg thread. He's a script editor on shows like Detectorists) has been doing a regular tweet series, analysing the episodes. For anyone who has had uncertain feelings about this episode, he may be able to give you an explanation: He sounds like a ray of sunshine. I mean, I get people liked the episode (I did too, as stated), but I don't see the need for snark. The guy's not one of the outrage-crazies and he does say he likes a number of things about the episode (and all the others).
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Post by barnabaslives on Feb 28, 2020 23:03:32 GMT
Seemed like a little bit of diversion, everyone getting separated and a second storyline about Brendan. I loved it when things seemed more confrontational early on in the episode and it maybe felt a bit like wandering off from that? I just hope that doesn't contribute to a whirlwind finish or a cliffhanger between seasons. All will be well that ends well.
All in all an absolutely magnificent episode though, totally stunning visuals (I liked the Cyber-drones and they looked great) and some truly great moments for The Doctor, Yaz and Graham. I was riveted to the screen from start to finish.
Don't know how I missed it but I don't think I've ever heard the Gallifrey in Ireland bit before. They'd have to be just teasing us with that - they wouldn't... they couldn't...? Nah, I think from the past two seasons, Chibnall knows not to take a joke too far, right?
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