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Post by tuigirl on Mar 10, 2020 20:23:27 GMT
Because one of the Youtubers I follow has mentioned recently that there are certain companions he considers "definite" companions who define a certain incarnation of the Doctor... I thought I bring this as a topic of discussion into this forum.
So this Youtuber said that the Doctors he considers weakest are also the ones he has trouble naming a "definite" companion for. He gave examples what he considers these definite companions: 2 and Jamie 3 and Jo 4 and Sarah Jane and/ or Romana 6 and Evelyn 7 and Ace 9 and Rose 10 and Donna
11 and Amy 12 and Bill
He does not like 5 a lot and cannot really point out the definite companion, and this is also difficult for 13.
And of course it is also a matter of taste- I personally would pair Sixie with Peri and 12 with Clara... but that might be personal preference.
What do you think? Is there such a thing? Do you think a certain Doctor is defined by a certain companion and does that improve the characterization?
Do you have preferences?
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Post by agentten on Mar 10, 2020 20:36:23 GMT
I had this idea knocking around in my brain recently, too. It's an interesting little challenge because "definitive" can have different definitions in this case. Do we say definitive is based on longest tenure, strongest relationship, most well developed, or presence and influence on key events? I wound up mixing all of those and then also considering which companion I think of first when I think of a particular Doctor. Here's what I came up with:
1.) Susan
2.) Jamie
3.) Jo
4.) Romana II
5.) Tegan
6.) Peri
7.) Ace
8.) Lucie
9.) Rose
10.) Donna
11.) Amy
12.) Clara
13.) Too early to say
Some of these were really easy. Jamie is a no-brainer, as is Ace. I had to consider some of the others a little more carefully. Four, for example, has great companions start to finish. In cases where I had trouble deciding, such as with Five, I picked the character whose interactions seemed to most bring themselves and the Doctor to life. I also had to resist picking favorite companions just because I like them best, and really think about that Doctor's era as a whole. It's also tough because some companions such as Sarah Jane don't, in my mind, fit only one Doctor so they're harder to categorize even though they're immensely important.
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Post by frisby78 on Mar 10, 2020 20:45:13 GMT
Things is for me some companions work better as a team, especially the first doctor. Barbara, Ian and Susan are great as a team.
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Post by constonks on Mar 10, 2020 20:46:12 GMT
Definitive companions for me are generally just the ones who have the most stories across all mediums - or at least the ones where I perceive that to be the case...
1. Steven (or maybe Susan)
2. Jamie
3. Jo
4. Leela
5. Nyssa & Tegan
6. Peri
7. Ace
8. Charley (audio), Fitz (novels - even if I haven't read anything with him yet!) & Izzy (comics)
9. Rose
10. Donna
11. Amy
12. Clara
13 is hard because we can't look back on her era fully yet - right now her definitive companions are the Fam Trio, because, well, of course they are!
The great thing about each Doctor having multiple eras and companions is that you get to see different sides of them. Look at the Fourth Doctor's three main companions - Sarah, Leela and Romana. Three very different people who bring out three different sides of the Doctor.
Which almost leads me to the opposite point of view - too definitive a companion, and we don't get to see as many different angles to a Doctor! Just looking at Big Finish as a case study, the Seventh Doctor is swamped by Ace stories, while the Sixth Doctor has been continually reinvented with new companions - Evelyn, Charley, Flip, Constance - as well as still hanging out with Peri and Mel once in a while
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 10, 2020 20:46:56 GMT
I had this idea knocking around in my brain recently, too. It's an interesting little challenge because "definitive" can have different definitions in this case. Do we say definitive is based on longest tenure, strongest relationship, most well developed, or presence and influence on key events? I wound up mixing all of those and then also considering which companion I think of first when I think of a particular Doctor. Here's what I came up with: 1.) Susan 2.) Jamie 3.) Jo 4.) Romana II 5.) Tegan 6.) Peri 7.) Ace 8.) Lucie 9.) Rose 10.) Donna 11.) Amy 12.) Clara 13.) Too early to say Some of these were really easy. Jamie is a no-brainer, as is Ace. I had to consider some of the others a little more carefully. Four, for example, has great companions start to finish. In cases where I had trouble deciding, such as with Five, I picked the character whose interactions seemed to most bring themselves and the Doctor to life. I also had to resist picking favorite companions just because I like them best, and really think about that Doctor's era as a whole. It's also tough because some companions such as Sarah Jane don't, in my mind, fit only one Doctor so they're harder to categorize even though they're immensely important. Interesting angle.
I still find it very hard to define a companion for 5. And I agree about 13.
But it is interesting that the consensus so far is on 2=Jamie, 3=Jo and 7=Ace (sample size 4) . I wonder if anybody has any different ideas...
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Post by constonks on Mar 10, 2020 20:53:36 GMT
But it is interesting that the consensus so far is on 2=Jamie, 3=Jo and 7=Ace (sample size 4) I wonder if anybody has any different ideas... Jamie, Jo and Ace seem non-negotiable based solely on their tenures as companion - Jamie in all but one of Troughton's stories, Ace in all but three of McCoy's, Jo in three seasons of Pertwee's five. Add onto that Ace's ubiquitous presence across all streams of the expanded universe - 35(?) Virgin New Adventures, most of Sylvester's BF work, most Seventh comics, most Seventh short stories - and the fact that when he's not with Ace, the Seventh Doctor is more likely to be alone than with anyone else. The only other one that seems that obvious is Nine, for the same reason - he's either with Rose or alone. |
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Post by frisby78 on Mar 10, 2020 20:54:29 GMT
OK the I'll bite...
First and Ian
Second and Jamie
Third and Sarah
Four and Sarah
Five and Nyssa
Six and Evelyn
Seven and Ace
Eight and Sam
Nine and Mickey
Ten and Martha
Eleven and Amy
Twelve and Bill
Thirteen, time will tell.
This list may have turned into favourites over definitive though...
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Post by polly on Mar 10, 2020 21:11:06 GMT
I think Doctors are defined by their companions in a lot of ways. Each one should (ideally) bring a different dynamic with their respective Doctor, and some of them are more successful than others.
The companion is often the main character more than the Doctor is, in a way. At least, they're the point of view for the audience most of the time. Therefore the companion/Doctor relationship colors the show and how we see the Doctor in a significant way. So I don't know about improve so much as influence but like I said the best of them bring out the best of their Doctors.
My gut reactions for each are:
1 - Ian/Barbara
2 - Jamie
3 - Jo
4 - Sarah Jane
5 - Nyssa
6 - Evelyn
7 - Ace
8 - Charley
9 - Rose
10 - Also Rose
11 - Amy/Rory
12 - Clara
As far as personal preference, Jo is forever associated with Pertwee, but I did rather like how different Liz was and I think getting rid of her so soon was a mistake. I think you could also make a strong argument that his definitive companion is actually the Brigadier, as he is the major through-line for Three's entire tenure.
For Davison, kee-jerk reaction is Nyssa, especially after her solo BF stories with him. I do like Tegan and her mouth, and Turlough's sneakiness, but Nyssa is the first Fifth Doctor companion who comes to mind whenever I think of him.
For Tennant, I don't like Rose anywhere near as much as I like Donna, but Rose hands-down defined his first series and overshadows the rest of the RTD era.
I want to say River is in contention for Smith, but she's not really a companion per se.
For Capaldi, I picked Clara just because she stuck around as long as she did, and again is the first to come to mind. It's hard for me to say, really, because I don't like Clara or Bill. Or Nardole. Or Missy.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 21:26:16 GMT
Hmmmm... I'm going for the definitive in my head pairing as opposed to my favourite companion(s).
First - Ian/Barbara
Second - Jamie
Third - Jo Grant
Four - Sarah Jane Smith
Five - Nyssa
Six - Peri
Seven - Ace
Eight - Charley Pollard
Nine - Rose
Ten - Rose
Eleven - Amy
Twelve - Clara
Thirteen - Yaz or Graham
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Post by mark687 on Mar 10, 2020 21:30:01 GMT
1st Ian
2 Jamie
3 Jo/Brig
4 Sarah/Leela if counting BF
5 (Tricky) Tegan
6 Everlyn
7 Ace
8 Lucie/ Liv
9 Rose
10 Martha
11 Rory
12 Bill
13 Not seen "definitive" yet so Yaz or Graham
Regards
mark687
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Mar 10, 2020 21:44:37 GMT
1. Susan or Steven
2. Jamie
3. Jo
4. Sarah Jane
5. Nyssa
6. Evelyn
7. Ace
8. Charley
9. Rose
10. Donna
11. Amy
12. Clara (As much as I dislike her)
13. Too early to tell, but it’s probably gonna be Yaz.
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Post by antartiks on Mar 10, 2020 21:45:10 GMT
One and Steven
Two and Jamie
Three and Jo
Four and K9
Five and Tegan
Six and Evelyn
Seven and Ace
Eight and Liv
War and Ollistra
Nine and Rose (duh)
Ten and Donna
Eleven and Amy
Twelve and Nardole
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Post by adamfinch on Mar 10, 2020 21:52:08 GMT
1: Vicki (Hartnell and O’Brien are perfect together)
2: Jamie
3: Sarah Jane
4: Romana
5: Tegan
6: Mel
7: Ace
8: Lucie
9: Rose
10: Rose
11: Amy
12: Bill
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Post by xlozdob on Mar 10, 2020 21:57:15 GMT
These are, for me, the ones I think have impacted or shared the most with each Doctor:
1. Probably Susan (but Ian and Barbara are really the first companions, so they probably changed the Doctor quite a lot)
2. Jamie (no-brainer)
3. Jo
4. Romana II (I feel she was a nice change of pace after travelling so long with humans and really brought out the real Doctor)
5. Maybe Adric (his death was real blow)
6. Evelyn
7. Ace (again, who else could it be?)
8. Lucie (haven't heard any of her adventures, but from what I know their relationship and her eventual death were a pivotal point for this incarnation)
War. (Why not?) Definitely his relationship with Ollistra is the one that had the most impact in his lifespan. And she's technically a companion.
9. Rose
10. Donna (made him move on from Rose)
11. Amy or River
12. Clara or Missy (again, technically a companion)
13. For now I think it might be Graham, but time will tell
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Post by dannybl on Mar 10, 2020 22:03:42 GMT
The First Doctor and Susan (though I think Steven is underrated)
The Second Doctor and Jamie
The Third Doctor and Jo
The Fourth Doctor and Romana II
The Fifth Doctor and Tegan
The Sixth Doctor and Evelyn
The Seventh Doctor and Ace
The Eighth Doctor and Lucie
The Ninth Doctor and Rose
The Tenth Doctor and Donna
The Elventh Doctor and Clara
The Twelfth Doctor andBill
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Post by pazzer on Mar 10, 2020 22:07:04 GMT
1. Ian
2. Jamie
3. Brigadier
4. Romana 2
5. Nyssa
6. Peri
7. Ace
8. Lucie
9. Rose
10. Donna
11. Amy
12. Bill
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Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2020 23:50:54 GMT
I'm going to go with a mix of zeitgeist and character:
01. Ian/Barbara/Susan
-- All three of them helped to define the Doctor's character in their own way and, thus, all have elements of his character within them. Ian's nobility and want for understanding, Barbara's discernment and determination, and Susan's otherworldiness and desire for connection. It's difficult to separate and they're traits that the Doctor himself will continue to display, in one manner or another, throughout all his incarnations.
02. Jamie/Zoe
-- I confess, this is more metatextual than the first. At the time the series was produced, Jamie fits perfectly with the two-man action team archetype that was flooding television at the time. Napoleon and Illya, Kirk and Spock, Mundy and Noah, Kelly and Scotty; they were everywhere at the time and this fit the dynamic rather smoothly. Zoe feels emblematic of that Space Age wonder that had well and truly kicked off by the late 60s.
03. Jo
-- The Third Doctor and Jo's banter is a bit difficult to talk about as it's so ubiquitous. It cemented a new baseline for decades to come. Like the First Doctor before it, it allowed an otherwise irascible Time Lord to open up and cool down. Exhibit an aspect of his character that made him more human to us as viewers. Jo herself was everything that he wanted to preserve in the Earth. Her courage in the face of impossible fears and her resourcefulness in coming to terms with the Doctor's unusual lfiestyle.
04. Romana/K9
-- Both companions feel like an expression of confidence in just how ubiquitous the series became under Tom Baker. For the first time in its history, the show was being carried by an entirely non-human cast. Each counterbalancing the other. The Doctor had his practical wisdom, complemented by Romana's academic intelligence. K9 was the most inhuman TARDIS-goer that we'd seen up until this point, yet he's thoroughly endearing in his hyperintelligent woofery.
05. Nyssa
-- Here's where we start branching off into the EU stuff. Here's where we start branching off into the EU stuff. From her Big Finish appearances, Nyssa has become somewhat analogous to the Two/Jamie or Three/Jo dynamic. Both complement the other in unexpected ways and it's difficult to imagine a large bulk of the Fifth Doctor's existence without her. Their dynamic brings to mind an adopted daughter and her stepfather. They're not just travellers, they're what remains of a family.
06. Evelyn
-- I want to put Peri here, but this is where the word "definite" comes into play more than most. Peri's time defines a particular era of Sixie in the same way that Mel does, but it's Evelyn Smythe who sits at the middle of that scale during the culmination of his arc. It was his experiences with her that ultimately transformed him into the man he became by The Last Adventure. She held him to account in a way that no other companion really had up until that point and, like Three and Jo, allowed him to quite noticeably display his compassion.
07. Ace
-- Ace casts a long shadow over the adventures of the Seventh Doctor, matched only perhaps by Benny. She was the one most affected by changes going on within and outside the show. She bore the brunt of his darker machinations both on and off television and was probably the most affected by 1990s trends and sensibilities in characters. Like Burton and Eastwood in Where Eagles Dare, she was Seven's muscle and his conscience.
I'm going to give myself a break before moving on, but phew, that's what I've got so far.
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lidar2
Castellan
You know, now that you mention it, I actually do rather like Attack of the Cybermen ...
Likes: 5,811 
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Post by lidar2 on Mar 11, 2020 9:07:41 GMT
Here goes
1. Barbara - she more than Ian or Susan changes him into the Doctor we know
2. Jamie
3. Jo
4. Sarah
5. Tegan - she makes him like a hen pecked husband
6. Evelyn
7. Ace
8. Lucie
War. Lack of companion defines him
9. Rose
10. Rose
11. Amy
12. Clara
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Post by number13 on Mar 11, 2020 12:49:41 GMT
I'm including BF Companions too - BF is canon! And I may cheat by including a pair of Companions where they were inseparable. 
1. Barbara and Ian : without them, the Doctor might have been as he is in the untransmitted pilot. They helped him to become more 'human'. 2. Jamie : Watson to Two's Holmes or Stan and Ollie depending on the scene! In high drama or low comedy they were one of the very best match-ups ever.
3. Jo : Best Companion Ever to the Best Doctor Ever! (I know it's possible others may disagree, but indulge me please, they are my team. ) Honourable mention for the Brig., another fabulous Watson and Holmes partnership with Three. 4. Sarah : a priceless mix of courage, independence and sometimes vulnerability too - of all Four's many Companions, the one who best represented us, the viewers of 20thC Earth. 5. Tegan : Brave Heart, Doctor! It's impossible now to see Tegan/Five without thinking of all the Janet/Peter moments on commentaries and docs too. What a team! 6. Evelyn : 'They called her "Evil Evelyn, the Pirate Queen" but she's, a kindly academic - chocolate cake and achy knees...' I once wrote a verse in praise of Evelyn/Maggie Stables, the wonderful Companion who could meet Sixie on equal terms. 7. Ace. 'Nuff said, right?! 8. Lucie. Doctor your Universe has just changed forever! 9. Rose 10. Donna. Ten wanted 'just a mate' and found 'Chiswick's finest', classic modern Companion who brought us Wilf too. 11. Amy/Rory. 12. Bill. Too short a time in the TARDIS, but very memorable. 13. To be confirmed.
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Post by barnabaslives on Mar 11, 2020 14:27:24 GMT
04. Romana/K9-- Both companions feel like an expression of confidence in just how ubiquitous the series became under Tom Baker. For the first time in its history, the show was being carried by an entirely non-human cast. Each counterbalancing the other. The Doctor had his practical wisdom, complemented by Romana's academic intelligence. K9 was the most inhuman TARDIS-goer that we'd seen up until this point, yet he's thoroughly endearing in his hyperintelligent woofery. 05. Nyssa-- Here's where we start branching off into the EU stuff. Here's where we start branching off into the EU stuff. From her Big Finish appearances, Nyssa has become somewhat analogous to the Two/Jamie or Three/Jo dynamic. Both complement the other in unexpected ways and it's difficult to imagine a large bulk of the Fifth Doctor's existence without her. Their dynamic brings to mind an adopted daughter and her stepfather. They're not just travellers, they're what remains of a family. Thanks for counting K-9 as a companion! I was just thinking again the other day that John Leeson should get to do a Short Trip (and should have gotten a Companion Chronicle) telling a story from K-9's perspective. Possibly a bit tricky but I'd bet Big Finish could easily do a brilliant job of it. Those are all some wonderful descriptions. I agree, if I had to pick just one companion for the Fifth Doctor, it would be Nyssa, for reasons just like those you stated. I'd rather not though, I think that's more the point with the First, Fifth, and Thirteenth Doctors is that things with companions really are more like a family. With the First Doctor, at least with Barbara, Susan and Ian. I'm mostly agreed with most of the posts so far but as much as I adore Lucie, if I had to pick the definitive Eight Doctor companion, I think it would be Charley first. Maybe it's just because she is the first Eighth Doctor audio companion, but her dynamic with The Doctor strikes me as a just little bit more... harmonious?... somehow. I also think it probably says something for Charley in that respect how well she also worked with the Sixth Doctor. |
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