mbt66
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Post by mbt66 on Mar 21, 2020 11:51:43 GMT
With regards to The Return of the Cybermen, which I believe is what Revenge of the Cyberman was based on, I wonder if this story will be set after Revenge. It would make sense given it is called the Return and that in Revenge it was believed that the Cybermen had died out.
Now as Revenge was the last story in season 12 and with them leaving to go and see the Brigadier at the end of that story to, we assume, go and fight the Zygons might this be set in season 13 and therefore only have Sarah Jane in it? Although theoretically it could be any companion, we are assuming recasts, but it could be Leela doing the job of both Sarah Jane Smith and Harry Sullivan!
I have to assume the story is suitably different to Revenge, otherwise it might have been a candidate for an Unbound release rather than a Lost Story.
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Post by Whovitt on Mar 21, 2020 12:52:20 GMT
With regards to The Return of the Cybermen, which I believe is what Revenge of the Cyberman was based on, I wonder if this story will be set after Revenge. It would make sense given it is called the Return and that in Revenge it was believed that the Cybermen had died out. Now as Revenge was the last story in season 12 and with them leaving to go and see the Brigadier at the end of that story to, we assume, go and fight the Zygons might this be set in season 13 and therefore only have Sarah Jane in it? Although theoretically it could be any companion, we are assuming recasts, but it could be Leela doing the job of both Sarah Jane Smith and Harry Sullivan! I have to assume the story is suitably different to Revenge, otherwise it might have been a candidate for an Unbound release rather than a Lost Story. We've got the odd additional story with Sarah and Harry though, and the only point they could go is post- Revenge, so it's not unprecedented to put stories in that gap.
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Post by constonks on Mar 21, 2020 14:20:53 GMT
With regards to The Return of the Cybermen, which I believe is what Revenge of the Cyberman was based on, I wonder if this story will be set after Revenge. It would make sense given it is called the Return and that in Revenge it was believed that the Cybermen had died out. Now as Revenge was the last story in season 12 and with them leaving to go and see the Brigadier at the end of that story to, we assume, go and fight the Zygons might this be set in season 13 and therefore only have Sarah Jane in it? Although theoretically it could be any companion, we are assuming recasts, but it could be Leela doing the job of both Sarah Jane Smith and Harry Sullivan! I have to assume the story is suitably different to Revenge, otherwise it might have been a candidate for an Unbound release rather than a Lost Story. We've got the odd additional story with Sarah and Harry though, and the only point they could go is post- Revenge, so it's not unprecedented to put stories in that gap. For what it's worth, Scratchman is set sometime after The Android Invasion and makes no effort to explain why Harry is with them - I expect he must have popped aboard the TARDIS now and again.
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Post by shallacatop on Mar 21, 2020 15:23:43 GMT
I’ve always imagined that the Doctor and Sarah have another string of adventures with Harry later on. If Lis & Ian were still with us, I’ve no doubt that Big Finish would’ve done the same. Tom Baker / James Goss did it in Scratchman.
I often think Ian Marter is one of the more tragic losses to Doctor Who, particularly given his young age and what he could have contributed. I’m sure he’d have been a leading voice during the New Adventures, written and starred in Big Finish audios and The Sarah Jane Adventures and perhaps for the parent show too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 16:01:36 GMT
with regards to how both tales fit into continuity, I assume with Return being a 'lost' tale, that it is an alternative continuity as an unused story line, whilst the film treatment, like the 60's films, was more a spin-off, but with the TV cast.
But that's just me being more cavalier with canon at times. It adds value to both if they slot into episode chronology though, but does not need to be stated explicitly. Season 12 always stood out to me as about the only time a consistent (i.e a whole season) run of stories followed seamlessly as one extended timeline. That is to say the end of each story appears to continue directly into the follow on, bar a continuity hiccup with Sarah's costume on one occasion, I seem to recall.
But lets not allow such concerns to get in the way of more of Tom, Harry & Sarah....
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Mar 21, 2020 16:07:25 GMT
I don’t really see why when it fits is a concern when the gap between Revenge of the Cybermen and Terror of the Zygons has already been greatly exploited across all mediums.
It’ll be a case of “oops this isn’t Scotland”.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 16:28:57 GMT
I don’t really see why when it fits is a concern when the gap between Revenge of the Cybermen and Terror of the Zygons has already been greatly exploited across all mediums. It’ll be a case of “oops this isn’t Scotland”. It was a Time Machine after all. They did not have to go straight back, just a particular time and place when they did choose to eventually do so. The Doctor went shopping for some Tartan gear on the way too, maybe Princess Street, Edinburgh?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 17:06:12 GMT
Well am interested. Listening More and more to the new e space stories Tom has regained the Doctor persona when he first started these all I could hear was Little Britain
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Post by fitzoliverj on Mar 21, 2020 17:39:05 GMT
I often think Ian Marter is one of the more tragic losses to Doctor Who, particularly given his young age and what he could have contributed. I’m sure he’d have been a leading voice during the New Adventures No question. As far as bad language and sexual content are concerned, he prefigured the NAs absolutely. As I recall, there's a "bastard" in "The Enemy of the World", and as for the ms of "The Rescue"...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2020 18:00:36 GMT
I don’t really see why when it fits is a concern ... It's not a concern where it fits for me, I'm more concerned that's it's a year and a half away from release. (November 2021! Seriously?!)
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Post by fitzoliverj on Mar 21, 2020 21:25:26 GMT
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dorney
Big Finish Creative Team
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Post by dorney on Mar 21, 2020 23:30:47 GMT
Well, as said above, it was written last year. The front page was spotted as being held by Tom during his BF interview on Twitter back on the 20th January. And, for what it’s worth, I’ve had that DWB since it came out - and the reprint of the script in the DWB compendium. It’s not quite the same as the one I worked from, though it proved useful to consult at points.
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Post by number13 on Mar 22, 2020 1:57:31 GMT
With regards to The Return of the Cybermen, which I believe is what Revenge of the Cyberman was based on, I wonder if this story will be set after Revenge. It would make sense given it is called the Return and that in Revenge it was believed that the Cybermen had died out. Now as Revenge was the last story in season 12 and with them leaving to go and see the Brigadier at the end of that story to, we assume, go and fight the Zygons might this be set in season 13 and therefore only have Sarah Jane in it? Although theoretically it could be any companion, we are assuming recasts, but it could be Leela doing the job of both Sarah Jane Smith and Harry Sullivan! I have to assume the story is suitably different to Revenge, otherwise it might have been a candidate for an Unbound release rather than a Lost Story. We've got the odd additional story with Sarah and Harry though, and the only point they could go is post- Revenge, so it's not unprecedented to put stories in that gap. One other possibility might be before 'Revenge'. When they arrive back on Nerva with the Time Ring, doesn't Sarah comment on the adventures of the 'past few weeks'? So if it was weeks rather than the few days we've apparently seen from Robot-Revenge, maybe the Time Ring (which we know was faulty) took them on a wild ride back from Skaro via a heap of other places?
Unless I've missed something which says 'no gap there'?
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Post by Thebogiehole on Mar 22, 2020 2:41:16 GMT
I don't see Harry returning to TARDIS travel, even if Sarah pleaded (she was SARAH in the Classic Series. "Sarah Jane" was started by JNT and Saward).
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Post by themeddlingmonk on Mar 22, 2020 2:43:25 GMT
I don't see Harry returning to TARDIS travel, even if Sarah pleaded (she was SARAH in the Classic Series. "Sarah Jane" was started by JNT and Saward). Well I mean he does in Scratchman.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Mar 22, 2020 9:56:17 GMT
I was initially surprised they weren’t combing these two stories into on CD set, But having just looked at my Tom Baker collection it makes perfect sense.
So...thank you Big Finish!
And as a reward for their forethought and consideration to physical collectors I have now done the pre-order.
I was going to leave it until I found out a bit more, but I can’t think of any reason I wouldn’t get these.
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Mar 22, 2020 10:02:58 GMT
Well, as said above, it was written last year. The front page was spotted as being held by Tom during his BF interview on Twitter back on the 20th January. And, for what it’s worth, I’ve had that DWB since it came out - and the reprint of the script in the DWB compendium. It’s not quite the same as the one I worked from, though it proved useful to consult at points. Hello Mr Dorney. Thank you for taking the time to post on this forum. Are you able to say where in the Fourth Doctor’s timeline this story is set? Or does that have to remain, for now, a mystery. Or was placement never a consideration and it just is what it is? I confess I never gave any thought to when Scratman would be placed. I just enjoyed it for what it was.
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Post by Whovitt on Mar 22, 2020 10:19:55 GMT
We've got the odd additional story with Sarah and Harry though, and the only point they could go is post- Revenge, so it's not unprecedented to put stories in that gap. One other possibility might be before 'Revenge'. When they arrive back on Nerva with the Time Ring, doesn't Sarah comment on the adventures of the 'past few weeks'? So if it was weeks rather than the few days we've apparently seen from Robot-Revenge, maybe the Time Ring (which we know was faulty) took them on a wild ride back from Skaro via a heap of other places?
Unless I've missed something which says 'no gap there'? Having just come from watching Revenge (genuinely coincidentally I might add), Sarah Jane does say weeks, but the Doctor says almost immediately after how Time Rings were faultless except for molecular disruption (or something very like that). While not definite, it would take a hell of a lot to convince me that anything could go between between Genesis and Revenge. By the way, when was it said the Time Ring was faulty? Regardless, this story couldn't take place before Revenge anyway, as Sarah and Harry don't know what Cybermen are yet, and a convenient mind wipe would be a bit disappointing at the end of a Lost Story.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 10:51:25 GMT
One other possibility might be before 'Revenge'. When they arrive back on Nerva with the Time Ring, doesn't Sarah comment on the adventures of the 'past few weeks'? So if it was weeks rather than the few days we've apparently seen from Robot-Revenge, maybe the Time Ring (which we know was faulty) took them on a wild ride back from Skaro via a heap of other places?
Unless I've missed something which says 'no gap there'? Having just come from watching Revenge (genuinely coincidentally I might add), Sarah Jane does say weeks, but the Doctor says almost immediately after how Time Rings were faultless except for molecular disruption (or something very like that). While not definite, it would take a hell of a lot to convince me that anything could go between between Genesis and Revenge. By the way, when was it said the Time Ring was faulty? Regardless, this story couldn't take place before Revenge anyway, as Sarah and Harry don't know what Cybermen are yet, and a convenient mind wipe would be a bit disappointing at the end of a Lost Story. *taps fingers together* There is one story. It's called A Device of Death and it deals with the after effects of Genesis of the Daleks on the timestreams. It's implied that the events in Deepcity with the trio help contribute to the development of the Movellans as a power equal to the Dalek Empire. They're not sent there on purpose, but by accident, a freak power surge caused by switching futures. Ironically, though, they achived what the Time Lords originally planned out for them (i.e. find an oppositional force to the Daleks). Entirely on their own.
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Post by number13 on Mar 22, 2020 11:05:22 GMT
One other possibility might be before 'Revenge'. When they arrive back on Nerva with the Time Ring, doesn't Sarah comment on the adventures of the 'past few weeks'? So if it was weeks rather than the few days we've apparently seen from Robot-Revenge, maybe the Time Ring (which we know was faulty) took them on a wild ride back from Skaro via a heap of other places?
Unless I've missed something which says 'no gap there'? Having just come from watching Revenge (genuinely coincidentally I might add), Sarah Jane does say weeks, but the Doctor says almost immediately after how Time Rings were faultless except for molecular disruption (or something very like that). While not definite, it would take a hell of a lot to convince me that anything could go between between Genesis and Revenge. By the way, when was it said the Time Ring was faulty? Regardless, this story couldn't take place before Revenge anyway, as Sarah and Harry don't know what Cybermen are yet, and a convenient mind wipe would be a bit disappointing at the end of a Lost Story. Oh I didn't mean 'Return', it's an alternative story isn't it and I hope they just do it as that instead of trying to fit it in with 'Revenge'. I meant new Fourth/Sarah/Harry stories as yet undreamed of.
Yes, the Time Ring is faulty! The Doctor says nothing can go wrong with one except a molecular short-circuit - implying that's what has happened, and that's why they didn't arrive back on 'their' Nerva but thousands of years before when it was still an asteroid beacon. The novel makes this much clearer than the TV programme - he puts it to his ear and shakes it as he says it! - and the Doctor also says not to worry because the Time Lords will notice and send the TARDIS back through Time from future Nerva to meet them at the point they arrived. Presumably this wasn't made clear in the TV programme because as we know they ran out of time with the script rewrites, and this is one point that got a bit blurred.
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