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Post by Whovitt on Mar 22, 2020 11:50:33 GMT
Having just come from watching Revenge (genuinely coincidentally I might add), Sarah Jane does say weeks, but the Doctor says almost immediately after how Time Rings were faultless except for molecular disruption (or something very like that). While not definite, it would take a hell of a lot to convince me that anything could go between between Genesis and Revenge. By the way, when was it said the Time Ring was faulty? Regardless, this story couldn't take place before Revenge anyway, as Sarah and Harry don't know what Cybermen are yet, and a convenient mind wipe would be a bit disappointing at the end of a Lost Story. Oh I didn't mean 'Return', it's an alternative story isn't it and I hope they just do it as that instead of trying to fit it in with 'Revenge'. I meant new Fourth/Sarah/Harry stories as yet undreamed of.
Yes, the Time Ring is faulty! The Doctor says nothing can go wrong with one except a molecular short-circuit - implying that's what has happened, and that's why they didn't arrive back on 'their' Nerva but thousands of years before when it was still an asteroid beacon. The novel makes this much clearer than the TV programme - he puts it to his ear and shakes it as he says it! - and the Doctor also says not to worry because the Time Lords will notice and send the TARDIS back through Time from future Nerva to meet them at the point they arrived. Presumably this wasn't made clear in the TV programme because as we know they ran out of time with the script rewrites, and this is one point that got a bit blurred.
I'd be very surprised if Return wasn't reworked so it could be set in the TV timeline, as 99% of everything Big Finish has ever made is designed to do that. As for new Four/Sarah/Harry stories, I'd always assumed How to Win Planets and Influence People and #HarrySullivan were both set post- Revenge, as they both involve TARDIS use. I don't see why we'd need to go to the effort of slotting stories between Genesis and Revenge. Even if it did happen there's no reason to continually have them travelling with a faulty Time Ring when the Doctor doesn't have that much mastery over steering the TARDIS at this point. It would seem like an excuse for setting stories in that period purely for the sake of it and, other than the story Wolfie mentioned above, I don't really see the need to put any stories there when it's much easier to set them after Revenge. Ah, but that's one of those blurred lines things. The novelisation can do whatever it wants, but I'm one of the "TV and audios" only kind of people. I get the Target books are integral to many fans, but there are too many little bits that just don't add up. Look at The Daleks or The Doomsday Weapon - they change things so that entire stories never happened. If it comes down to picking and choosing what bits from what novelisations count, it stops being a general rule and only what an individual wants. At that point what really matters from the novelisations if it's all disputable?
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Mar 22, 2020 12:02:04 GMT
I am currently on a re-watch of season 18 with State of Decay next up. After that I plan to listen to the most recent series 9 of the Fourth Doctor Adventures. So it is nice to be able to slot the audios between the television episodes.
I know it really doesn’t matter and to be honest has only come to the forefront of my mind due to the new Fourth Doctor Blu-ray boxsets and my revisiting those television stories.
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Post by number13 on Mar 22, 2020 12:24:54 GMT
Oh I didn't mean 'Return', it's an alternative story isn't it and I hope they just do it as that instead of trying to fit it in with 'Revenge'. I meant new Fourth/Sarah/Harry stories as yet undreamed of.
Yes, the Time Ring is faulty! The Doctor says nothing can go wrong with one except a molecular short-circuit - implying that's what has happened, and that's why they didn't arrive back on 'their' Nerva but thousands of years before when it was still an asteroid beacon. The novel makes this much clearer than the TV programme - he puts it to his ear and shakes it as he says it! - and the Doctor also says not to worry because the Time Lords will notice and send the TARDIS back through Time from future Nerva to meet them at the point they arrived. Presumably this wasn't made clear in the TV programme because as we know they ran out of time with the script rewrites, and this is one point that got a bit blurred.
I'd be very surprised if Return wasn't reworked so it could be set in the TV timeline, as 99% of everything Big Finish has ever made is designed to do that. As for new Four/Sarah/Harry stories, I'd always assumed How to Win Planets and Influence People and #HarrySullivan were both set post- Revenge, as they both involve TARDIS use. I don't see why we'd need to go to the effort of slotting stories between Genesis and Revenge. Even if it did happen there's no reason to continually have them travelling with a faulty Time Ring when the Doctor doesn't have that much mastery over steering the TARDIS at this point. It would seem like an excuse for setting stories in that period purely for the sake of it and, other than the story Wolfie mentioned above, I don't really see the need to put any stories there when it's much easier to set them after Revenge. Ah, but that's one of those blurred lines things. The novelisation can do whatever it wants, but I'm one of the "TV and audios" only kind of people. I get the Target books are integral to many fans, but there are too many little bits that just don't add up. Look at The Daleks or The Doomsday Weapon - they change things so that entire stories never happened. If it comes down to picking and choosing what bits from what novelisations count, it stops being a general rule and only what an individual wants. At that point what really matters from the novelisations if it's all disputable? Fair enough - I don't really care either way, where they put new stories or how they fit! It's a bit of fun of course and BF are very good at being inventive with and faithful to continuity. What really matters is, if they are going to recast Sarah and Harry for 'Return of the Cybermen' and if it works well (and I have faith in BF so I'm sure it will!) let's have another run of stories with them! Fitted in anywhere, any time!
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Post by Whovitt on Mar 22, 2020 12:26:37 GMT
I'd be very surprised if Return wasn't reworked so it could be set in the TV timeline, as 99% of everything Big Finish has ever made is designed to do that. As for new Four/Sarah/Harry stories, I'd always assumed How to Win Planets and Influence People and #HarrySullivan were both set post- Revenge, as they both involve TARDIS use. I don't see why we'd need to go to the effort of slotting stories between Genesis and Revenge. Even if it did happen there's no reason to continually have them travelling with a faulty Time Ring when the Doctor doesn't have that much mastery over steering the TARDIS at this point. It would seem like an excuse for setting stories in that period purely for the sake of it and, other than the story Wolfie mentioned above, I don't really see the need to put any stories there when it's much easier to set them after Revenge. Ah, but that's one of those blurred lines things. The novelisation can do whatever it wants, but I'm one of the "TV and audios" only kind of people. I get the Target books are integral to many fans, but there are too many little bits that just don't add up. Look at The Daleks or The Doomsday Weapon - they change things so that entire stories never happened. If it comes down to picking and choosing what bits from what novelisations count, it stops being a general rule and only what an individual wants. At that point what really matters from the novelisations if it's all disputable? Fair enough - I don't really care either way, where they put new stories or how they fit! It's a bit of fun of course and BF are very good at being inventive with and faithful to continuity. What really matters is, if they are going to recast Sarah and Harry for 'Return of the Cybermen' and if it works well (and I have faith in BF so I'm sure it will!) let's have another run of stories with them! Anywhere, any time!
Goodie goodie yum yum!
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Post by Thebogiehole on Mar 22, 2020 12:29:47 GMT
As for the gap between *Revenge* and *Zygons*, they could have dippy bopped around the universe for ten years, and still made it to Scotland in time.
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Post by number13 on Mar 22, 2020 12:29:52 GMT
Fair enough - I don't really care either way, where they put new stories or how they fit! It's a bit of fun of course and BF are very good at being inventive with and faithful to continuity. What really matters is, if they are going to recast Sarah and Harry for 'Return of the Cybermen' and if it works well (and I have faith in BF so I'm sure it will!) let's have another run of stories with them! Anywhere, any time!
Goodie goodie yum yum! I'd not realised I was quoting! Now imagining a Fourth Doctor/Goodies crossover story...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 12:31:23 GMT
Oh I didn't mean 'Return', it's an alternative story isn't it and I hope they just do it as that instead of trying to fit it in with 'Revenge'. I meant new Fourth/Sarah/Harry stories as yet undreamed of. Yes, the Time Ring is faulty! The Doctor says nothing can go wrong with one except a molecular short-circuit - implying that's what has happened, and that's why they didn't arrive back on 'their' Nerva but thousands of years before when it was still an asteroid beacon. The novel makes this much clearer than the TV programme - he puts it to his ear and shakes it as he says it! - and the Doctor also says not to worry because the Time Lords will notice and send the TARDIS back through Time from future Nerva to meet them at the point they arrived. Presumably this wasn't made clear in the TV programme because as we know they ran out of time with the script rewrites, and this is one point that got a bit blurred.
I'd be very surprised if Return wasn't reworked so it could be set in the TV timeline, as 99% of everything Big Finish has ever made is designed to do that. As for new Four/Sarah/Harry stories, I'd always assumed How to Win Planets and Influence People and #HarrySullivan were both set post- Revenge, as they both involve TARDIS use. I don't see why we'd need to go to the effort of slotting stories between Genesis and Revenge. Even if it did happen there's no reason to continually have them travelling with a faulty Time Ring when the Doctor doesn't have that much mastery over steering the TARDIS at this point. It would seem like an excuse for setting stories in that period purely for the sake of it and, other than the story Wolfie mentioned above, I don't really see the need to put any stories there when it's much easier to set them after Revenge. Ah, but that's one of those blurred lines things. The novelisation can do whatever it wants, but I'm one of the "TV and audios" only kind of people. I get the Target books are integral to many fans, but there are too many little bits that just don't add up. Look at The Daleks or The Doomsday Weapon - they change things so that entire stories never happened. If it comes down to picking and choosing what bits from what novelisations count, it stops being a general rule and only what an individual wants. At that point what really matters from the novelisations if it's all disputable? It's interesting, isn't it, how much continuity comes down to texture? The Time Ring gap is intriguing, but for me, it doesn't feel like a particularly large period. The Doctor, Harry and Sarah feel relatively fresh-faced when they emerge into Transmat Reception. The three of them trudging across the Scottish moors, however, that feels as though some time has passed between Nerva and Loch Ness. I can just picture the Doctor trying to set the coordinates and finding that the space-time telegraph has developed a fault that'll require rejigging: I'm personally someone who arranges stories based on how they sit relative to their characters. That takes priority over all else. Scratchman, for instance, feels like something from when the Hinchcliffe era was in full swing with mummies, Mandragora and ante-matter. I found it difficult to place initially because it's working on two levels. There's the continuity of an unassuming invasion of scarecrows and the continuity of the Doctor being cut from history (literally). Both having occurred at possibly different times in his lives. As the story notes in the very first line: he was late.
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Post by Whovitt on Mar 22, 2020 12:34:36 GMT
I'd be very surprised if Return wasn't reworked so it could be set in the TV timeline, as 99% of everything Big Finish has ever made is designed to do that. As for new Four/Sarah/Harry stories, I'd always assumed How to Win Planets and Influence People and #HarrySullivan were both set post- Revenge, as they both involve TARDIS use. I don't see why we'd need to go to the effort of slotting stories between Genesis and Revenge. Even if it did happen there's no reason to continually have them travelling with a faulty Time Ring when the Doctor doesn't have that much mastery over steering the TARDIS at this point. It would seem like an excuse for setting stories in that period purely for the sake of it and, other than the story Wolfie mentioned above, I don't really see the need to put any stories there when it's much easier to set them after Revenge. Ah, but that's one of those blurred lines things. The novelisation can do whatever it wants, but I'm one of the "TV and audios" only kind of people. I get the Target books are integral to many fans, but there are too many little bits that just don't add up. Look at The Daleks or The Doomsday Weapon - they change things so that entire stories never happened. If it comes down to picking and choosing what bits from what novelisations count, it stops being a general rule and only what an individual wants. At that point what really matters from the novelisations if it's all disputable? It's interesting, isn't it, how much continuity comes down to texture? The Time Ring gap is intriguing, but for me, it doesn't feel like a particularly large period. The Doctor, Harry and Sarah feel relatively fresh-faced when they emerge into Transmat Reception. The three of them trudging across the Scottish moors, however, that feels as though some time has passed between Nerva and Loch Ness. I can just picture the Doctor trying to set the coordinates and finding that the space-time telegraph has developed a fault that'll require rejigging: I'm personally someone who arranges stories based on how they sit relative to their characters. That takes priority over all else. Scratchman, for instance, feels like something from when the Hinchcliffe era was in full swing with mummies, Mandragora and ante-matter. I found it difficult to place initially because it's working on two levels. There's the continuity of an unassuming invasion of scarecrows and the continuity of the Doctor being cut from history (literally). Both having occurred at possibly different times in his lives. As the story notes in the very first line: he was late. I haven't got around to Scratchman yet, but I very much intend to. I'm still debating book over audiobook. I've always preferred having the actual book, but I've heard very good things about Tom's reading.
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dorney
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Post by dorney on Mar 22, 2020 13:25:44 GMT
Well, as said above, it was written last year. The front page was spotted as being held by Tom during his BF interview on Twitter back on the 20th January. And, for what it’s worth, I’ve had that DWB since it came out - and the reprint of the script in the DWB compendium. It’s not quite the same as the one I worked from, though it proved useful to consult at points. Hello Mr Dorney. Thank you for taking the time to post on this forum. Are you able to say where in the Fourth Doctor’s timeline this story is set? Or does that have to remain, for now, a mystery. Or was placement never a consideration and it just is what it is? I confess I never gave any thought to when Scratman would be placed. I just enjoyed it for what it was. Generally speaking, I can’t really say anything outside the press release details. Sorry!
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mbt66
Chancellery Guard
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Post by mbt66 on Mar 22, 2020 13:44:46 GMT
Hello Mr Dorney. Thank you for taking the time to post on this forum. Are you able to say where in the Fourth Doctor’s timeline this story is set? Or does that have to remain, for now, a mystery. Or was placement never a consideration and it just is what it is? I confess I never gave any thought to when Scratman would be placed. I just enjoyed it for what it was. Generally speaking, I can’t really say anything outside the press release details. Sorry! Oh well, thank you for replying.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2020 21:40:11 GMT
It's interesting, isn't it, how much continuity comes down to texture? The Time Ring gap is intriguing, but for me, it doesn't feel like a particularly large period. The Doctor, Harry and Sarah feel relatively fresh-faced when they emerge into Transmat Reception. The three of them trudging across the Scottish moors, however, that feels as though some time has passed between Nerva and Loch Ness. I can just picture the Doctor trying to set the coordinates and finding that the space-time telegraph has developed a fault that'll require rejigging: I'm personally someone who arranges stories based on how they sit relative to their characters. That takes priority over all else. Scratchman, for instance, feels like something from when the Hinchcliffe era was in full swing with mummies, Mandragora and ante-matter. I found it difficult to place initially because it's working on two levels. There's the continuity of an unassuming invasion of scarecrows and the continuity of the Doctor being cut from history (literally). Both having occurred at possibly different times in his lives. As the story notes in the very first line: he was late. I haven't got around to Scratchman yet, but I very much intend to. I'm still debating book over audiobook. I've always preferred having the actual book, but I've heard very good things about Tom's reading. I haven't heard Tom's reading yet. It's been on my list of things to get around to, but I've got the book. It's a lovely black hardback that slots in very nicely with my copy of the Necronomicon and Eldritch Tales. *does a double take* I think James Goss helped to integrate it more in line with some of Doctor Who's own lore, but I honestly can't tell where Tom ends and Goss begins. It's that well-integrated. It's a bit of A.A. Milne, a bit of C.S. Lewis, a bit of Kenneth Grahame... All Tom. It reminds me most of MediEvil with Sir Daniel Fortesque (" The Hero of Gallomere who fell at the first charge!"). Classic children's literature with a bit of Gothic Whimsey.
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Post by tuigirl on Mar 23, 2020 7:09:44 GMT
It's interesting, isn't it, how much continuity comes down to texture? The Time Ring gap is intriguing, but for me, it doesn't feel like a particularly large period. The Doctor, Harry and Sarah feel relatively fresh-faced when they emerge into Transmat Reception. The three of them trudging across the Scottish moors, however, that feels as though some time has passed between Nerva and Loch Ness. I can just picture the Doctor trying to set the coordinates and finding that the space-time telegraph has developed a fault that'll require rejigging: I'm personally someone who arranges stories based on how they sit relative to their characters. That takes priority over all else. Scratchman, for instance, feels like something from when the Hinchcliffe era was in full swing with mummies, Mandragora and ante-matter. I found it difficult to place initially because it's working on two levels. There's the continuity of an unassuming invasion of scarecrows and the continuity of the Doctor being cut from history (literally). Both having occurred at possibly different times in his lives. As the story notes in the very first line: he was late. I haven't got around to Scratchman yet, but I very much intend to. I'm still debating book over audiobook. I've always preferred having the actual book, but I've heard very good things about Tom's reading. Audiobook. Hands down. The book itself is an average to bonkers Doctor Who tale. I admit it would not have held my attention if I had read it myself. The reading by Tom however- is an experience.
Do yourself a favour. Even if you are not a big 4th Doctor fan (like me). Tom will drag you in.
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Post by Whovitt on Mar 23, 2020 8:08:08 GMT
I haven't got around to Scratchman yet, but I very much intend to. I'm still debating book over audiobook. I've always preferred having the actual book, but I've heard very good things about Tom's reading. Audiobook. Hands down. The book itself is an average to bonkers Doctor Who tale. I admit it would not have held my attention if I had read it myself. The reading by Tom however- is an experience.
Do yourself a favour. Even if you are not a big 4th Doctor fan (like me). Tom will drag you in.
Four was my favourite back before the New Series, so there's no worries about that It was actually your posting about the audiobook that got me interested in the first place, for what it's worth
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2020 8:24:15 GMT
Audiobook. Hands down. The book itself is an average to bonkers Doctor Who tale. I admit it would not have held my attention if I had read it myself. The reading by Tom however- is an experience.
Do yourself a favour. Even if you are not a big 4th Doctor fan (like me). Tom will drag you in.
Four was my favourite back before the New Series, so there's no worries about that It was actually your posting about the audiobook that got me interested in the first place, for what it's worth I had a go at the snippet available on Audible and, well... *bites lip, rolls eyes* I might have just bought it in that instant. Just a little bit.
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Post by xlozdob on Mar 23, 2020 17:17:34 GMT
Audio trailer now available.
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Post by project37 on Mar 23, 2020 17:54:06 GMT
That just sounded like everything else to my ears. I was curious about Sarah and Harry, but the edit stepped clear of addressing that for now. Curious to learn more from DWM.
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Post by chronotis on Mar 23, 2020 20:33:29 GMT
Rather early to have a trailer for something not released until the end of 2021.
Is it possible it is going to be bumped up the release schedule?
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Post by fitzoliverj on Mar 23, 2020 20:42:07 GMT
Rather early to have a trailer for something not released until the end of 2021. Is it possible it is going to be bumped up the release schedule? Considering the way BF are rearranging their schedules, quite possibly we might get this in.... oo, fourteen months rather than eighteen? Also, they probably felt they needed to respond to the speculation and excitement (cheers, dorney, for answering my paranoid conspiracy theory).
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dorney
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Post by dorney on Mar 24, 2020 9:57:50 GMT
Rather early to have a trailer for something not released until the end of 2021. Is it possible it is going to be bumped up the release schedule? Considering the way BF are rearranging their schedules, quite possibly we might get this in.... oo, fourteen months rather than eighteen? Also, they probably felt they needed to respond to the speculation and excitement (cheers, dorney, for answering my paranoid conspiracy theory). No worries. I mean, I’d be surprised if it was bumped up the schedule so soon after being announced. (I’m genuinely a bit baffled as to why the time frame for this one has got everyone so on edge!)
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Post by chronotis on Mar 24, 2020 10:04:23 GMT
Considering the way BF are rearranging their schedules, quite possibly we might get this in.... oo, fourteen months rather than eighteen? Also, they probably felt they needed to respond to the speculation and excitement (cheers, dorney, for answering my paranoid conspiracy theory). No worries. I mean, I’d be surprised if it was bumped up the schedule so soon after being announced. (I’m genuinely a bit baffled as to why the time frame for this one has got everyone so on edge!) More eagerness than being on edge. As a huge fan of both the Cybermen and John Lloyd, I just excited to hear them.
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